Fan Census: This is embarrassing

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

All the people getting defensive though..have something to worry about that's not in game.

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Was it necessary to get judgmental after you said yourself it doesn't actually matter?

That's why people get defensive.

I don't care, though it's annoying to try to clear the content because of said "culture difference".

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Hmm, Artificial inflation caused by all the RMT Gil injected into the economies of the NA servers that give them business?

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1.) RMT are on all the servers, not just NA.

2.) I've played on JP servers, and a HQ level 10 weapon costs upwards of 20k. Inflation indeed...

Chocobo baby! :D That's my server and we're number 1!!!

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I for one would like to raid, but the harsh treatment people do get when trying to learn keeps alot of people away from trying to raid.
I am a good learner and learn fairly fast, but with all the "1 fail = kick" people out there, how would anyone even manage to learn?

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Replying to 4 day post, but it caught my attention
No one really wants to help each other out. I'm all for learning but when I can't make a party of new people like myself I have to use DF.
Asking for help has always been out of the question for me because 9 times out of 10 the generic response is "Go read/watch a guide"

DF should really have a new player option that you can tick or something so you get grouped with people who haven't completed the content, I think that will help heaps with players wanting the same experience and learning things for themselves. Watching a guide spoils the fun and yet people shun others for not watching a guide.

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

Kind of surprised at how many excuses are in this thread. Ranging from "I can I just don't care to" all the way to "but the lag"

Why make excuses when no one has been blamed?

But I personally just think the answer to why we dont clear like jp was said a while ago. Its a cultural difference. Nothing to defend or be ashamed about. Differences make the world interesting.

All the people getting defensive though..have something to worry about that's not in game.

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I disagree about it being cultural at least in terms of skill and difficulty, if statistics show anything, it's that western gamers like a challenge just as much if not more than Japanese gamers. The Souls series of games are a great example of this in recent years. However this isn't just a recent thing it's been the case since the days of the NES and SNES.

Being judgemental and telling people they're making excuses is exactly a form of the toxic behaviour that seems to prevail in this community, it's putting down others and telling them they're not good enough then calling them out for getting defensive when you call them out for this.

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

Why make excuses when no one has been blamed?

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No one is making excuses, is it now an excuse to answer a question as to why people aren't clearing the content when that was inquired by the OP?
And why do you assume someone has to be blamed in this situation?

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

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Reread what I Said then reread the thread if you're going to surf through old topics.

Now weither or not one culture is more desiring of a challenge over another is irrelevant. I was referring to teamwork which you would know if you read the thread. And I'm not judging, I'm stating a fact. If you are uncomfortable that what you deemed acceptable reasons to fail I consider to be excuses then Idk what to tell you. I'm not calling anyone out.

Inb4 I know it seemed like he was trolling. I wasn't sure though So responded to clarify. Lol

Most of the reasons are excuses though. We would have 34 pages worth of Final Witnesses just in this thread alone if everyone could clear it.

Sure, some people have a valid reason, but no, most people are just getting defensive.

Instead of just looking at the data and reflecting it, people go 'pff I would clear it but <insert excuse X> here'.

It's the player base to be perfectly honest. I've played many mmo's over the years and I can easily say that the types of players that flock to Final Fantasy are EXTREMELY casual and or RP type players almost to the point of "this is my first mmo" type of noobishness. They don't have the motivation/skill/drive ect.. to finish content or be competitive in that way. I have friends that have "according to them" been playing this for years but when i ask them questions about the game i get proverbial blank stares when i ask about raids and what ilvl i should be shooting for and fight mechanics ect. I honestly think i now know more than they do in some regards and i just started.

Continue below......1000 character limit...

Continued.....

Coming from mmo's such as wow, aion, tera ,rift,heck even EQ1 and 2... the mentality is completely different here. It was almost a culture shock to me coming into this game and dealing with a playerbase that almost just doesn't seem to care about progression at all or how long it takes them to get there. Whereas before to me that was "and still is" what mmo's are all about. My motivations are completely different than most I want endgame and I want it yesterday. So as much as i love this game, having now played it for a couple of months it's very clear the player base of ff14 is insanely different from that of other mmo's. Why this is is another debate altogether but from my outside observation this is the core of the "problem" of why NA falls so far behind in progression.

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Originally Posted by LTEvil

Reread what I Said then reread the thread if you're going to surf through old topics.
Now weither or not one culture is more desiring of a challenge over another is irrelevant. I was referring to teamwork which you would know if you read the thread. And I'm not judging, I'm stating a fact. If you are uncomfortable that what you deemed acceptable reasons to fail I consider to be excuses then Idk what to tell you. I'm not calling anyone out.

Inb4 I know it seemed like he was trolling. I wasn't sure though So responded to clarify. Lol

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You were referring to teamwork yet never mentioned that, therefor my assumption of culture is irrelevant? nice logic there, but it's still very relevant to the subject of cultural differences in gaming.
I have read the thread, if you had read it you would know i posted earlier on, please take your own advice on this, the fact you mention teamwork is all the more puzzling since multiplayer games are much more popular in the west today than in Japan, so please explain how this is a cultural thing?

Now moving on to the judging part, you seem to state it is a fact, do you know the definition of facts? you don't seem to by your response as that is not a fact you stated its an opinion, basic english is not hard and is not an excuse for your ignorance. Like you yourself stated, how can these be excuses when no one is to blame? you seem to use very circular logic.

However they're not excuses, people are explaining why they have not completed the content, it is not an excuse to express your opinion.

And then this final part

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All the people getting defensive though..have something to worry about that's not in game.

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How is that not calling anyone out? you're calling them defensive and saying they having something to worry about thats no in gaming, clearly implying they lack something outside of the game mentally.

Fyi if you believe i'm trolling because i pointed out your mistakes, i feel sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

It's the player base to be perfectly honest. I've played many mmo's over the years and I can easily say that the types of players that flock to Final Fantasy are EXTREMELY casual and or RP type players almost to the point of "this is my first mmo" type of noobishness. They don't have the motivation/skill/drive ect.. to finish content or be competitive in that way. I have friends that have "according to them" been playing this for years but when i ask them questions about the game i get proverbial blank stares when i ask about raids and what ilvl i should be shooting for and fight mechanics ect. I honestly think i now know more than they do in some regards and i just started.

Continue below......1000 character limit...

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u can edit your post to avoid the 1000 char limit :P

and FFXI: ARR was created with the idea of being noob friendly and the first mmorpg for lots of ppl (kinda like wow was for lots of players) or Eq was for me.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

u can edit your post to avoid the 1000 char limit :P

and FFXI: ARR was created with the idea of being noob friendly and the first mmorpg for lots of ppl (kinda like wow was for lots of players) or Eq was for me.

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Ah thx for the info! and yea that makes a lot of sense. EQ was also my first mmo I played up until Omens of war? But my guild was alllll about raiding so maybe it was just instilled in me early =/ Really do love this game so far though just had to get used to the slower pace.

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

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I do disagree with you on the general mentality of players being different, having played an extensive amounts of MMO's myself and from 2.0 of ARR to now, i've not noticed a departure in terms of mentality. However something to point out is ARR is a cross play MMO that supports ps3/ps4 and PC gamers and forces them all in one group, and i don't think its unfair to say a lot of the console audience are less hardcore and not as familiar with MMO's as PC gamers, which could be one of the causes for this. I would like to see some data between which players play on consoles and which ones play on PC as i think it would be interesting to see which demographic is larger, as we also know from recent Japanese gaming reports, a lot of Japanese gamers are no longer buying consoles in favour of mobile and handheld gaming.

But like i said above i've not noticed a lack of hardcore or progressional players in my time with ARR, playing both on moogle and cerberus.(both EU servers)
Which apparently are low progressional servers in the OP data is to be believed, perhaps i don't notice the common player base as i mainly stick to raiding, but i will say the achievements as far as gear goes seems to be overwhelming evident to me that a lot of players are clearing this content, though the data seems to contradict this.

Edit: Another thing to note would be that SE has never said how many active players the game has, so when you consider the percents of how many have completed the content listed in the OP you have to make some assumptions, and bare in mind server capacity.

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

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There's nothing really wrong with people flocking to XIV because it's a Final Fantasy game. I mean it's the reason I picked up the game because I've played every other Final Fantasy game may as well tick this off the list, I do try and give my all though when it comes to content, even going as far as to read guides which I mentioned I hate doing because it ruins the fun, but it's pretty mandatory if you can't get a progression party going, but I digress. You're right about the playerbase though been playing a bit off PSO2 and WoW on and off and I can see it as well.

It's like night and day.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

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No. It's more that I don't have a set schedule. I can't make plans and say that I can play at x time on y day. I never said it was anyone else's fault or that I don't want to make the time. It'd be nice if I could go into a thread without people putting words in my mouth. How am I suppose to find a static if I can't be static myself? If I can play on Monday at 12-4pm one day, but then the next 3 I can only play 11pm-2am, or 11-2pm, how am I suppose to make plans? Do tell me how you make plans around a none set schedule? If it's possible I would like to hear it. I can ask for time off or specific shifts, but I can't do that all the time nor is it guaranteed.

It's also interesting how when I said I won't do it for any reason people feel it is their right to tell me that my reasoning is faulty. Tell me. Why should I do it? What is the reason I should do Coil? I can't, as far as I know.

Because its rare for ppl to be nice and help others. Not nonexistent just rare. Personally I will stay until the time runs out because I know some ppl just need help.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

snippity snip snip!

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You might just wanna take a step back for a minute, man. You're taking this very personally, and trying to make it very personal for others as well. Regardless of how intelligent you think you are, stuff like

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

do you know the definition of facts ... i feel sorry for you.

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does not help move things along; if anything it's just going to push people further away from reasonable discussion. All you're doing is making personal attacks with those types of statements.

Side note, if you're going to say something like "basic english isn't very hard" you may not want to make it part of a run-on sentence.

I'm thinking this is because groups want people that have already cleared it. I haven't even tried turn 5 due to the fact that I missed the boat when it was still new. Yeah, I am legacy. Yes, I tanked Darnus in 1.0. No, I don't want to hear some 13 year old tell me how much I suck at life and should go kill myself. Have fun in there kiddos.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

No. It's more that I don't have a set schedule. I can't make plans and say that I can play at x time on y day. I never said it was anyone else's fault or that I don't want to make the time. It'd be nice if I could go into a thread without people putting words in my mouth. How am I suppose to find a static if I can't be static myself? If I can play on Monday at 12-4pm one day, but then the next 3 I can only play 11pm-2am, or 11-2pm, how am I suppose to make plans? Do tell me how you make plans around a none set schedule? If it's possible I would like to hear it. I can ask for time off or specific shifts, but I can't do that all the time nor is it guaranteed.

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Because you are an adult and most people (kids) think that a 9 to 5 is the only work schedule that exists. How I wish that were true.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

I'm thinking this is because groups want people that have already cleared it. I haven't even tried turn 5 due to the fact that I missed the boat when it was still new. Yeah, I am legacy. Yes, I tanked Darnus in 1.0. No, I don't want to hear some 13 year old tell me how much I suck at life and should go kill myself. Have fun in there kiddos.

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T5 is still very much a thing - I do an average of 3-5 clears for people a week. The only thing stopping you from clearing it is you and your completely misguided opinion because I can tell you from personal experience that no one cares if someone is just clearing T5 for the first time. Usually you'll get the majority of the party telling the person "Congrats!" when they get the clear.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

T5 is still very much a thing - I do an average of 3-5 clears for people a week. The only thing stopping you from clearing it is you and your completely misguided opinion.

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But here's the rub, at this point I don't want to. That is only thing stopping me from clearing Turn 5. Besides, how many of those clears for people are bought and paid for runs? Sure people get help from really cool strangers, but how does that measure up to the selling coil run t5 -t13 shouts or the only come if you have previous clear guys?

As for being misguided... /bow It's what I do. Glad you enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

But here's the rub, at this point I don't want to. That is only thing stopping me from clearing Turn 5. Besides, how many of those clears for people are bought and paid for runs? Sure people get help from really cool strangers, but how does that measure up to the selling coil run t5 -t13 shouts?
As for being misguided... /bow It's what I do. Glad you enjoyed it.

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None are bought. All of my help is free; if I see a T5 clear party in PF, I'll join it. They usually fill in under 10 minutes.

Anyone who actually pays for a T5 clear is wasting their gil. There are a lot of people willing to help for free, either for the bonus sol or just plain because they want to.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

None are bought. All of my help is free; if I see a T5 clear party in PF, I'll join it. They usually fill in under 10 minutes.

Anyone who actually pays for a T5 clear is wasting their gil. There are a lot of people willing to help for free, either for the bonus sol or just plain because they want to.

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Well hell, You sound like the nicest person I've have ever met. If only there were more people like you in this game. Not sarcasm either.
But I challenge you to take a look at the pf system. Really take a good look at it. Tell me that half of those parties are looking for soldiery bonuses or doing the content because they are feeling generous. i assure you they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

Well hell, You sound like the nicest person I've have ever met. If only there were more people like you in this game. Not sarcasm either.
But I challenge to to take a look at the pf system. Really take a good look at it. Tell me that half of those parties are looking for soldiery bonuses or doing the content because they are feeling generous. i assure you they aren't.

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I think it probably depends on the server. I know that when my FC hasn't had enough people online to help one of us get a clear for something, we've never had trouble PFing people to fill in the extra slots, even on older stuff like Garuda and Levi EX.

I see learning/progression/clear parties for most content on a fairly regular basis, and they tend to fill up. Even if people leave after a few wipes, they're usually either polite about it or they just leave quietly. It's been a while since I've seen a genuine raqequit in anything.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

But I challenge to to take a look at the pf system. Really take a good look at it. Tell me that half of those parties are looking for soldiery bonuses or doing the content because they are feeling generous. i assure you they aren't.

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I've said this before: If you go and make learning parties in PF you'll find people like that as well as people who want to actually work towards a clear instead of a carry. Don't get me wrong you'll also find a ton of people expecting either a carry or just plain rude as well. That's the unfortunate nature of the internet. You'll always find rage quitters and rude people. Hell a few nights ago I was in T10 in DF out of sheer boredom. Had a tank that kept making excuses and screwing up then blaming all the dps for every wipe. We ignored him, carried on and eventually got few people their first clears.

You make learning parties in PF up until you have last phase experience and then you start making parties going for the clear. I've seen people do that several times for T5 and T9 and my server appears to be one of the lowest on clear rates.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

Well hell, You sound like the nicest person I've have ever met. If only there were more people like you in this game. Not sarcasm either.
But I challenge to to take a look at the pf system. Really take a good look at it. Tell me that half of those parties are looking for soldiery bonuses or doing the content because they are feeling generous. i assure you they aren't.

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There is something to be said about the power of friendship. And proper pf descriptions.

I'm pretty sure pf doesn't easier as content gets dated, but if you are tired of waiting, try organizing with your fc or Ls. At best, you succeed and everyone reaps the rewards and cheer, in addition you know of people that you can work with. At worst, you learn more of the encounter to take with you on future pf/df attempts.

I won't compare my situation with yours, but remember, people of all kinds use the pf. Be the change you want to see. You might get surprised at the results.

Barring that, find and work with familiar people, that way you can control the crapshoot of skill and patience as much as possible.

Anyone try lodestone's event thing? That sounds good on paper.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

I think it probably depends on the server. I know that when my FC hasn't had enough people online to help one of us get a clear for something, we've never had trouble PFing people to fill in the extra slots, even on older stuff like Garuda and Levi EX.

I see learning/progression/clear parties for most content on a fairly regular basis, and they tend to fill up. Even if people leave after a few wipes, they're usually either polite about it or they just leave quietly. It's been a while since I've seen a genuine raqequit in anything.

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Never change servers. Like for real. Don't do it. From what it sounds like, the entire Gilgamesh server grew up watching Sesame Street and Mr. Rodger's neighborhood and took that stuff to heart. Once again, not sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

There is something to be said about the power of friendship. And proper pf descriptions

I won't compare my situation with yours, but remember, people of all kinds use the pf. Be the change you want to see. You might get surprised at the results.

Barring that, find and work with familiar people, that way you can control the crapshoot of skill and patience as much as possible.

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Once again. I don't want to clear t5. The first two years of Arr made me not want to touch endgame at all. This is what this particular topic is about. The majority of players don't want to do endgame because we had really bad experiences with it from people who supposedly share our interests. Good riddance with the coil design. Alexander seems much more interesting because of the normal/hard mode feature. Coil was supposed to be closure for 1.0 and we ended up with whatever that mess is.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

Once again. I don't want to clear t5. The first two years of Arr made me not want to touch endgame at all. This is what this particular topic is about. The majority of players don't want to do endgame because we had really bad experiences with it from people who supposedly share our interests. Good riddance with the coil design. Alexander seems much more interesting because of the normal/hard mode feature. Coil was supposed to be closure for 1.0 and we ended up with whatever that mess is.

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Oh I'm not arguing for coil's design, I'll be glad if Alexander works out. I'm just suggesting what seems to be working for me at the moment, because I intend to get my answers even if it occurs after heavensward's release.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

Never change servers. Like for real. Don't do it. From what it sounds like, the entire Gilgamesh server grew up watching Sesame Street and Mr. Rodger's neighborhood and took that stuff to heart. Once again, not sarcasm.

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I will definitely agree with that-- the majority of people I have encountered on Gil are very nice and willing to help out and stick around through wipes so that people can get clears. Heck, when I was trying for my Titan EX clear, the PUGs we got were great and stuck around for the entire instance even though we ultimately couldn't quite get it down. There were no bad attitudes; everyone was nice and upbeat and helpful. Really great people.

If someone enjoys helping others get thru content they have already cleared, chances are they struggled with it themselves at some point. Such people are generally helpful, understanding and patient. Empathy really comes into play here.

People who were carried or bought their clears generally avoid going back at all costs.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

But here's the rub, at this point I don't want to. That is only thing stopping me from clearing Turn 5. Besides, how many of those clears for people are bought and paid for runs? Sure people get help from really cool strangers, but how does that measure up to the selling coil run t5 -t13 shouts or the only come if you have previous clear guys?

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Let's be completely fair. People who are helpful don't advertise because it's not a business for them like it is for the sellers. Using those shouts as the only determination here is a great example of a cognitive bias.

It's easy to check too.

Step 1: Find the going price for t5.
Step 2: Go to your FC and LSs and find out how many even have that much cash.
Step 3: Of those who do ask how many would actually consider using that money to purchase a run.

I guarantee you it's a smaller number than you think.

Shouts do not equal or even suggest community rates of clear purchases anymore than I can use advertising on tv to extrapolate how well that business is actually doing.

That's the real rub.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Be the change you want to see. You might get surprised at the results.

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This person has the right of it. MMOs are what you make of them.

I transfered from a low pop JP server ( that, turns out, has a higher clear rate ) to Cerberus some days ago and was amazed at the amount of wankers, slackers and flamers i saw in dungeons and raids like WoD. NOW im not even surprised that EU/NA cant compete. How can you possibly tackle ~hard team oriented content when you hate errbody around you?

Sorry, but MMO's are what other people make of them. Tera online is proof of that.

You may be correct about how many are not willing to pay for clears, but how about when the relaunch just came out? It was a different time altogether. You may not see it much now, but back then it was common to see people selling runs more than helping people out just because.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

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I see so you are mad. Ok ill be gentler with you. I know you posted earlier and you didnt make sense then as you don't now. It has a lot to do with culture because JP culture does not focus around the individual which you would know if you read the posts. But thats fine people are so self absorbed I get that. You seem mad which i can only assume is because you are the type to make excuses instead of being honest. So my post must have madeyou take offense. I am sorry for that, but get over it. If you fail any reason for your failure is an excuses. acceptable or not is another thing.
As far as my english, i speak more than one or two languages. Sometimes my habits from my native or even other languages spill into typing and speaking or even reading english. If that's ignorance then id hate to know what people are that only speak one language.
I made no mistakes, you simply take offense to the truth and want to attack me about it. You made your point I made mine, let it go.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Was it necessary to get judgmental after you said yourself it doesn't actually matter?

That's why people get defensive.

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I'd add to this that people have gotten defensive because OP is telling people they should be embarassed and ashamed if they haven't cleared t13. If you try to make people feel bad, they do tend to lash back. If this was presented differently I think we'd have seen more "...So?" posts being made.

I FC was doing coils once a week. It's still the best FC I've been in. With 90% of the FC on turn 9 we stopped and can't get motivated to do coils anymore with 3.0 around the corner.

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Originally Posted by writeraeria

I'd add to this that people have gotten defensive because OP is telling people they should be embarassed and ashamed if they haven't cleared t13. If you try to make people feel bad, they do tend to lash back. If this was presented differently I think we'd have seen more "...So?" posts being made.

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I'm going to agree with you. This topic has no way of being productive. So I'm just going to forget all about it.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

You may be correct about how many are not willing to pay for clears, but how about when the relaunch just came out? It was a different time altogether. You may not see it much now, but back then it was common to see people selling runs more than helping people out just because.

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That's what we call "a guess." We call it that because it's based on gut feelings and anecdotes.