Formal Letter to SE about RMT situation.

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Originally Posted by Mook_Mook

They have little reason to do anything about it. AS the community has shown to be complacent, which one of you is willing to unsub over this matter? Unless they loose financially its not worth it for them to get a hand on the matter.

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It isn't so much over us unsubscribing, as it is affecting NEW PLAYERS trying out this MMO in a VERY competitive MMO market where other companies have RMT under control. They expect a small spattering of RMT, but like I said earlier, they are getting a giant wall of spam before they even get out of the very first cutscene. News Flash: MMO's that do not have a stream of new players coming in, get stale and stagnant.

What can they do though?

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

What can they do though?

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There's A LOT of things they can do. People have already given a plethora of decent suggestions. It's a matter of whether or not SE takes additional action.

...A lot of those suggestions are more of a hindrance toward new players then anything else from my point of view.

Well to start...they could do what every other MMO I have ever played has done...

You know like actually moderate & permaban all players associated with purchasing gil with real currency? I'm relatively new myself & I nearly quit during my trial period over RMT spam. On Brynhilder its like 2-4 tells per minute. How is it that such a well polished, incredible game such as FFXIV can have this poor of moderation?

I've played WoW, GW1, GW2, Rift, Warhammer Online, Archage, Planetside 2 etc & NONE of them had this poor of moderation. So why is this acceptable in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Zanarken

Well to start...they could do what every other MMO I have ever played has done...

You know like actually moderate & permaban all players associated with purchasing gil with real currency? I'm relatively new myself & I nearly quit during my trial period over RMT spam. On Brynhilder its like 2-4 tells as minute. How is it that such a well polished, incredible game such as FFXIV can have this poor of moderation?

I've played WoW, GW1, GW2, Rift, Warhammer Online, Archage, Planetside 2 etc & NONE of them had this poor of moderation. So why is this acceptable in FFXIV?

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None of them had cross platform with consoles. it has been proven that People on consoles are MUCH more likely to buy optionals (DLC, cash shop, gil) than their PC counterparts, therefore FFXIV has a larger potential market than the other mmos do.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

None of them had cross platform with consoles. it has been proven that People on consoles are MUCH more likely to buy optionals (DLC, cash shop, gil) than their PC counterparts, therefore FFXIV has a larger potential market than the other mmos do.

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Can you source your statement..or should I rewrite it in a another manner. To say the problem is from one demographic is implying that there are more console players on this game then PC..then why should SE waste resources on improving the graphics and such "DX11" when the major demographic is console. Base on your statement.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

Can you source your statement..or should I rewrite it in a another manner. To say the problem is from one demographic is implying that there are more console players on this game then PC..then why should SE waste resources on improving the graphics and such "DX11" when the major demographic is console. Base on your statement.

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Sure. give me a few minutes.

edit: Argh, this is proving more difficult than intended. I did the initial research on this in college, where the information came from scientific publications that cannot be accessed by anyone. im trying to find a good mirror now for them.

In the meantime, im not saying there are more console players than PC players, but I am saying that console players tend to buy more optional content than pc players do. This is due to the fact that the average age of console players is less than that of PC players, and it has also been proven that younger players have less patience for boring tasks that make gil, and therefore are more likely to buy it illegally.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

What can they do though?

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There are many solutions to the problem..

Prompt action will deter a lot of the RMT spammers first of all.
But a specific solution I know works for a lot of the other games is to sell game-time items with secondary currency.. such as Crysta in this game.

If there's anything of value sold from the mog station, that gives people the ability to buy said item and trade it for in-game currency. SE can print out infinite number of minions/mounts/game-cards etc.. and RMT cannot, they cannot compete under such conditions. The state of cash shop in this game is pitiful at best.. Gifting was only enable what.. 2 weeks ago? There are 3 minions, 1 mount, and the fantasia.. If SE expanded the services offered for Crysta, and allowed players to exchange said items instead of making it exclusive to people who are willing to buy Crysta for real money, they can circumvent involvement of RMT by providing a pathway to $ <-> Crysta <-> Gil.


I know if that was an option, most players hoarding stupid amounts of gil would simply buy their game time with gil and that would also fix a lot of the wealth disparity in the game also.. and kick start the economy on some servers where it's gone completely stale..

This is off-topic but on some servers, there are serious economy crashes because rich players have nothing to spend the money on (Masamune iirc) and everything is cheap as hell, so nobody can actually make money either.. If SE could get them to open up their wallets for mog shop items that some other player bought with cash.. That would alleviate a lot of the economic problems that's happened on some servers

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

words

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X100 this. So many people are gonna hate this but this is pretty much the best way to combat RMT, if ya can't beat 'em join 'em. WoW is already starting to do this.

Well with my blacklist constantly maxed out and with a fair stream of new RMT on a consistent basis I only have one option... Busy.

I'm not unfriendly and I wish SE would do something so I didn't have to do this but as of now I will likely be exclusively playing in this status. Thank you SE for taking the social interaction out of your MMO for me. Good job! -__-;

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Originally Posted by Vchipp

X100 this. So many people are gonna hate this but this is pretty much the best way to combat RMT, if ya can't beat 'em join 'em. WoW is already starting to do this.

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Let's legalize drugs and weapons too, then, because clearly the market for those can't be perfectly controlled either.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Let's legalize drugs and weapons too, then, because clearly the market for those can't be perfectly controlled either.

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Funnily enough, several states legalizing marijuana has cut into cartel's "business" quite a bit.

Of course, matters are more complex than just legalize vs don't legalize in both cases. But there are tons of RMT threads burgeoning with ideas, yet all we get from SE is radio silence.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Let's legalize drugs and weapons too, then, because clearly the market for those can't be perfectly controlled either.

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Mmmhm. Think about alcohol.
Do you see anybody on the streets going "pssst, hey, you wanna buy some liquor?"

No, but back in the prohibition, speakeasies were a thing.

I recently transferred from Balmung to Malboro, due to the fact that I never really preferred to be on a legacy server. I went from roughly 1-3 RMT messages a day to the scenario described by Zabuza, roughly 1 or more a minute. Coming from a server that is almost always at population cap to one that is not, I realize this is a hurdle that RMTs have to deal with, and I wonder if SE is combating RMT on an individual server basis or as a whole (total RMT) and not taking consideration of this.

This is a major issue and it surprises me that consideration is given in terms of things such as glamors for new players, but not RMT. I don't know how new players tolerate this, but I must applaud them. Honestly, I've been playing less due to this and have thought even more so of letting my subscription lapse.

Sign me up.

/signed Shuu Naranol (Shiva)

After you get a good amount of Signature, I suggest you print this out and send it to Yoshida himself. I remember one time he actually read the letter and even write back.

I agree that RMT is getting out of hand, some server have it worst then other. Now they even doing friend request too beside spamming and whisper every minutes. RMT seam to be on the rise, not lessen.

/signed - Saseal Korei (Couerl)


At the risk of babbling... some of my thoughts.

I've already supported the idea of being able to filter out tells from unknowns. I don't get enough legit Tells from strangers for it to be concern of mine. If SE is having some kind of difficulty hard filtering RMT (or just getting rid of it in general) for us as paying customers, they might as well just put in the option to allow us to do it ourselves. I'd hope it to be a more temporary, large fix for the situation until they're ready and able to actually yank the problem out of the game.
Going 'Busy' is just a tiny patch that is not a fix. It's desperation of the players taking matters into their own hands =p

We can see that they're making efforts through their announcements of banned or temp banned, etc on accounts. However, it's painfully obvious that it's just not enough. They make these reports and only once have I ever felt any relief.... for a total of two days. THen it was back in full force - and as of late, WORSE. You can not slap a small bandaid on a stab wound - and the sheer amount of tells is a deep, gushing gash. It will not heal itself and it will only keep overflowing. The huge gaps allowing the RMTs to remain or continue to return needs to be sewn closed.
If something is not working, try the next method of fix - not just keep replacing dainty bandaids (banned accounts, going busy).

SE will only shoot themselves in the foot by not trying to stop the bleeding. Slapping some bans is a temporary after temporary fix - it's not a discouragement for the offenders - only a minor setback.
At this point, when Heavensward comes out, it will have the hype to draw new players who either bought the game or using the Free Trial. The Free Trial itself should be a money maker source. Impress the new players so they will not let go. But with the RMT, that's not going to be the case. New players won't have anything holding them there and no reason to be loyal. They'll play for a few days, get tired of the RMT spam and not return to actually pay a subscription to continue. Nothing is holding them there. Many of us are still there because of friends, FC, time and money put into the game, or just in general had time to experience the game in it's ups and downs. New players have none of that to keep them there. SE should be making them hooked, as a company making money off this.
We have a few new peeps that are friends of friends - that recommended the game - in the FC, and thats one of my concerns ---- they'll disappear and stop logging in one day out of frustration of the spam. Probably after the free trial ends.

Even taking the 'New Player' piece out of this, FFXIV can only gain bad reputation for the RMT tells/shouts. People will hear down the grapevine and avoid the game.

I really want this game to succeed and to surpass the current expectations, but we as players can only do so much by ourselves.

We've taken the initiative to set 'Busy' (I see the busy symbol fairly often these days) - and as a result, some places in game are inundated with Shouts of the exact same RMT messages. Why they haven't been banned instantly from the blatant obviousness is beyond me. Soooo, if SE won't do anything to the UI to include filtering, or throw in some other method of catching the tells... if players are forcing the RMT bots to become more obvious in their activities and SE just outright banhammers them quickly, it might make both options (tells and shouts in last resort to reach players) discouraging to attempt.

Maybe a GM (or somesuch) or two should pose as a player on each server.. They'll get all the information they need without players needing to report them. The RMTs will easily flock to the GMs like lemmings. Just let the bots throw themselves onto the spikes.


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Also, I've become victim of the Pavlovian conditioning (I kid, but sometimes I wonder). Anything that sounds like or is the Tell chime makes me start swearing.
(I've left it on because Busy absolves me of this problem, but when I know certain people are on that need to send tells, I want to be able to look at the chat box to try to see if they did or not (which circles back to the problem of spam). It would otherwise just get lost in a sea of pink with no separation indication whatsoever.

/signed Aevis Sylph@Midgardsormr
Every time I log in I get a "friend" requst. Its like clockwork. S-E gives a list of banned RMT accounts, but all I see is the situation getting worse on this server. Blacklist is worthless, busy status makes associating with others a pain, and S-E needs to pay me if they want me to report all the /tells I get. AFAIK the only indication that S-E is even acknowledging RMT is an arbitrary page on the Lodestone every week or so.

/signed

They could end this immediately without any effort on their part. Just permaban gil buyers and destroy the gil. You cannot just slap them on the wrist, if they lose everything they will not buy and RMTs will go away if their is no money to be made.

Make people level to 20 before they can send a friend request or send a tell

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Originally Posted by Kairus

Irregardless.

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Everything else you said was invalidated by this for me.

/signed W'fharl Tia (Gilgamesh)

Just letting everyone know, Zabuza, the author of the petition, was banned from the forums for 10 days for issues relating to this thread (the making fun of the task force a few pages ago). So they are watching and listening.

He will update the signatures when he gets back. In the meantime, guys, lets make sure that we keep this strictly on-topic, to not give SE any reason to just close this thread to quiet us.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Just letting everyone know, Zabuza, the author of the petition, was banned from the forums for 10 days for issues relating to this thread (the making fun of the task force a few pages ago). So they are watching and listening.

He will update the signatures when he gets back. In the meantime, guys, lets make sure that we keep this strictly on-topic, to not give SE any reason to just close this thread to quiet us.

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That's absolutely ridiculous. We have every right to make our feelings about the RMT situation and any Anti-RMT team behind it known because we're the ones getting constantly HAMMERED with RMT spam. So not only are they ignoring our desperate pleas for help they're censoring us as well. Awesome.

Seriously, if they don't like the criticism then give us the tools to help us help them.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Just letting everyone know, Zabuza, the author of the petition, was banned from the forums for 10 days for issues relating to this thread (the making fun of the task force a few pages ago). So they are watching and listening.

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I actually had a feeling about that... When I saw what was said about them, I winced and knew what was going to happen. But then I shook my head about how the STF was reduced to a joke in his mind that he could carelessly take a shot at them in their own home.

And yea, everyone can definitely make their feelings known about the RMT situation but you cannot personally take a shot at the team handling the matter. On every gaming forum, you're not allowed to call names in such a manner.

So yea, they aren't censoring you... The STF doesn't monitor this forum most likely as they are within the game working. The FORUM MODS are telling you to keep it civil and not take childish shots at the task force. >_> None of us have any idea how they work or what they do so calling names is exactly as I said, childish.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

Seriously, if they don't like the criticism...

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Criticism is exactly what they accept...name calling is not what they feel they should have to accept. They don't tolerate player vs player name calling and they certainly shouldn't have to take it themselves. Keep it civil.

bump/10char

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Originally Posted by Darkshade

bump/10char

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Short posts for the purpose of bumping a thread are also against the rules.

Everyone posting in here, I would suggest reading all 3:
the Terms of service: http://account.square-enix.com/agreement/us/#
The Forum rules: http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum
The general Discussion Rules: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...al-Discussion!

Lets make sure to give no need for moderation.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

Everything else you said was invalidated by this for me.

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Thanks for contributing.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Just letting everyone know, Zabuza, the author of the petition, was banned from the forums for 10 days for issues relating to this thread (the making fun of the task force a few pages ago). So they are watching and listening.

He will update the signatures when he gets back. In the meantime, guys, lets make sure that we keep this strictly on-topic, to not give SE any reason to just close this thread to quiet us.

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lol that's hilarious.. I just got back from a 10 day ban for writing a post on the Jenova forums about the 4 BLM gil farmers.. my friend's been posting for me in the mean time..

/signed

Bobbin Threadbare@Masamune, and ex-Sargatanas which also moved server due to RMT spams being one of reasons. :(

/signed Hexy Kaze, Gilgamesh.

/signed Horo Wolf from Ragnarok.

Ps: this is how I signed for this

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/phot...73-599-337.gif

I also encourage everyone signing to announce this petition in game. in shout, in your linkshells, in your fc. the more people we get, the more likely they are to listen, and if we can unify the people, we may be able to persuade them to change!

It personally does not affect me all that much, but you have my support for implementing a more realistic solution to the RMT problems that are plaguing some servers.

/signed

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Originally Posted by Natsuno

It personally does not affect me all that much, but you have my support for implementing a more realistic solution to the RMT problems that are plaguing some servers.

/signed

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Tell us your Character name and server please :)

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Funnily enough, several states legalizing marijuana has cut into cartel's "business" quite a bit.

Of course, matters are more complex than just legalize vs don't legalize in both cases. But there are tons of RMT threads burgeoning with ideas, yet all we get from SE is radio silence.

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Well of course.

You never tell the fraudsters how to defeat your countermeasures. Free free to let the people speculate though.

When I worked for *likeIwouldtellYou*, the fraudsters would regularly call/email in and ask what they did wrong, and "good natured" representatives would tell them vaguely that they broke the ToS, and suggest a hint... and you know what happens? Every fraudster on the site would then use that hint, and we have to start over again.

So SE telling us anything would just result in them having to start over again. Short of clarifying a policy you will never, ever, see, you will never have SE tell you anything about how they are combatting RMT short of some extremely tiny numbers. There are no less than 6 different RMT sites advertising their services, and since there are 64 servers. Use the numbers to do the math:

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Time Period: Apr. 2, 2015 to Apr. 8, 2015
- Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT advertising: 912 = 2 per server per day
- Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 9,617 = 21 per server per day
- Action Details: Permanent ban from FINAL FANTASY XIV

- Accounts receiving disciplinary action for participation in RMT/illegal activity: 71 = 1 per server per week
- Action Details: Temporary ban from FINAL FANTASY XIV

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Those numbers don't include just outright cheaters. That they likely warned, the cheaters promised to not do it again, and then the cheaters just went right back to what they were doing.

/signed Mayuka Goldstrike on Adamantoise (NA) server

I do hope that one day all this hard work will make a difference.

This is Jenova server today - make them stop!!!
http://imgur.com/PW0Zmvq
http://imgur.com/PW0Zmvq

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Originally Posted by Orspeth

This is Jenova server today - make them stop!!!

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Yep. The heavy restrictions that /busy places you in doesn't cut it anymore in main cities so long as they spam in /shout. Thanks to this, I do most of my crafting and marketing in my housing area next to the marketboard and bell (while in /busy).

It's pretty sad that it has gotten to that point.

SE service has been absolute crap since the early 1980's why on earth would you expect it to change now, don't get me wrong I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment but in truth this will be doing nothing. They will not listen to you they will not change. If you saw the bashing they took over Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, and saw that even in the gigantic out cry of hatred of that game. They still did nothing. I know people that would call them five or six times a day and they got the same line every time about how it was being handled but it wasn't. If it will make you feel better to do this then by all means, but all of you should curve yourself in the most likely case that you will be disappointed.