Some surprising data in regards to SMN dps vs BLM dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rainsford

I love how all the MNK/BLM's are tying themselves in knots if they won't have SMN as a whipping boy anymore. Again, my SCH ticks for 150dps and my Ruin hits for 200 non-crit. That's already over 200dps, and that's not counting constant pet damage with Rouse and Spur plus Fester. SMN dps at 350 seems perfectly reasonable if your rotation is sound.

---

I don't have only MNK leveled. Full Darklight + Relic, my summoner put up Bio + Bio II + Miasma and I get 241-285 DoT ticks. That's 80-95 DPS. Please impart upon me how you're getting 150 DPS from DoT ticks alone. That would mean your DoTs tick for 450 at least. Either you are lying, purposefully disingenuous, or confused as to how DPS works. I'm not saying that Summoner is a weak class, far from it. It's really strong. But telling people that SMN pull 350 DPS because PARSER SAYS SO without question is doing the entire Summoner Job a disservice when it's been proven time and time again that the parser results are flat out WRONG and not anywhere near the real numbers.

I'm trying to write a parser but I can't seem to get DoT numbers to show in the combat log. I want my parser to be accurate - without these numbers it's all just guesstimate. Anyone know how to get DoT's to show in the combat log?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rainsford

Again, my SCH ticks for 150dps and my Ruin hits for 200 non-crit.

---

You realize that to be at a 150DPS you would have to be doing over 450 damage per tick? (DPS is per second, the DoTs hit every 3... therefore 150 * 3 = 450) You being a healer, this sounds ridiculous, especially whenever you said yourself that your single target damage only hits for 200 per hit. I have yet to see a SCH contribute meaningfully to trash pulls. Not saying their DoTs are not appreciated, but when you see them DoT up every target breaking all my Sleeps, only to see their health bar drop by AT MOST 5% before we fully switch over to it... really makes me sad. and I dare say you are NOT pulling 150DPS on your DoTs.

So the question begs, where did you find out you were pulling 150 DPS on your DoTs? from the proven to be false parsers? Yeah... that's what I thought. Next!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mjk

I'm trying to write a parser but I can't seem to get DoT numbers to show in the combat log. I want my parser to be accurate - without these numbers it's all just guesstimate. Anyone know how to get DoT's to show in the combat log?

---

That. That is the million dollar question. There is no way to get that data right now, and can only be guessed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mjk

I'm trying to write a parser but I can't seem to get DoT numbers to show in the combat log. I want my parser to be accurate - without these numbers it's all just guesstimate. Anyone know how to get DoT's to show in the combat log?

---

No one does at the moment, sad to say. If they do show somewhere, we have no clue where to look. I would guess that we won't be able to find out where to read the actual DoT numbers until Square releases the developer API for the game which isn't for a while.

Apologies in advance, but this is going to be a long post.

Why don't we just compare potencies instead of people arguing over parsers?

Ignoring the pet for now, and lets do our tests over the course of 3 minutes, or 180 seconds (RS cooldown).

In the usual Bio2->miasma->bio1->thunder->sflare opener,

Bio2 ticks 60 times.
Miasma 59 times
Bio1 59 times
Thunder 58 times.
Sflare 57 times.
Miasma2 16 times (only during contagion, and only 10+15 secs, 8 ticks at a time).

With RS and contagion off the bat, bio2 ticks 15 times with RS, miasma 13 times, bio 11 times, thunder 11 times, miasma 2 8 times, sflare not affected.

So now we have,

Bio2 - 15 RS, 45 normal = 35*(15*1.2 + 45) = 2205
Miasma - 13 RS, 46 normal = 35*(13*1.2 + 46) = 2156
Bio - 11 RS, 48 normal = 40*(11*1.2 + 48) = 2448
Thunder - 11 RS, 47 normal = 35*(11*1.2 + 47) = 2107
Sflare - 57 ticks = 25*57 = 1425
Miasma 2 - 8 RS, 8 normal = 10*(8*1.2 + 8) = 176 (kevee, i still hate miasma 2 cause its terrible).

For a total of 10517 potency from DoT ticks.

Now lets look at how many casts we do to upkeep dots.

Bio2 has 30 seconds of uptime per cast, with an additional 30 seconds from 2 contagions, so we need to cast it 5 times. That is a surprisingly low number of GCDs.
Miasma has 24 seconds of uptime, with 30 seconds from 2 contagions, so we cast it 6.25, or 7 times.
Bio has 18 seconds of uptime, so we cast it 8.3 or 9 times.
Thunder also has 18 seconds, so we cast it 9 times.
Sflare has 30 second uptime, so we cast it 6 times.
Miasma 2 we cast twice, during contagion.

So, we spend a total of 32+6*3/2.5 = 39.2, lets round it to 40 (for time spent doing CD's) GCDs upkeeping DoTs.

Miasma, miasma 2, and thunder all have cast potencies, so lets factor that in.

7 casts of Miasma, 1 RS, 6 normal = 20*(1*1.2+6) = 144
9 casts of thunder, 1 RS, 8 normal = 30*(1*1.2 + 8) = 276
2 casts of Miasma II, 1 RS, 1 normal = 20*(1*1.2 + 1) = 44 (miasma II sucks!)

So we now have a total of 10981 potency over 40 GCDs, or 274.5 p/GCD from DoTs, which isn't bad!

I am assuming a 2.5 sec gcd. Obviously, as people's spell speed gets higher you will be able to fit more GCDs, making DoTs less effective relatively. This means that I assume at super high haste BLMs will start to overtake SMN regardless.

With a 2.5 sec gcd, we spend 100 seconds upkeeping dots, leaving 80 seconds or 32 GCDs for ruins.

We spend 5 GCDs during RS to setup dots, so we have 7.5 seconds or 3 GCDs for ruins during that time.

Thus, ruins do 80*(3*1.2 + 29) = 2608 damage from ruins.

Lets factor in fester. In 3 minutes we have a maximum of 12 festers, typically closer to 11 because of the delay of first fester, but lets say 12. This is an atypical scenario because we're leading with 3. Because of this, lets assume instead we do 10 festers, splitting the extra fester from opener into 3 "sets" of 3 minutes, assuming a fight is around 9 minutes.

2 festers are done during RS, so festers do 300*(2*1.2 + 8) = 3120 damage.

Thus we have our total damage profile of 10981(DoTs) + 2608(Ruins) + 3120(Festers) = 16709 p/3 minutes, or 232 p/GCD or 92.8 pps.

For pet, I'm assuming, based on completely eyeballing the damage, that garuda does a bit less than a ruin's worth of damage every 3 seconds or so. So I'm going to peg that potency at 75.

Assuming rouse and spur stack multiplicatively, you have 1 rouse and 2 rouse/spurs in 3 minutes. During each your pet does 6 attacks. Your pet does 60 attacks total.

so you have 75*(6*1.4 + 12*1.4*1.4 + 42) = 5544

Your pet adds 5544 p/3 min, 77 p/GCD, or 30.8 pps.

Which roughly puts your pet at around 25% of your total dps, which is consistent with most people's findings. Thus a summoner's total pps is ~123.6 pps.

Can someone who actually knows BLM give a similar summary of BLM pps? Obviously they have procs, so use the average case.

EDIT: also an interesting thing to note, if you completely did NO ruins at all, you would still sit comfortably at 109.1 pps. You lose about 14.5 pps, which is ~12% dps loss from doing no ruin/ruinIIs at all. Food for thought.

EDIT2: just for kevee, using ruin2 instead of miasma 2 nets you a loss of 44 potency/3 minutes, or 123.38 pps, so you lose .22 pps or about 0.17% dps. So...I'm going to keep refusing to use miasma 2 because it sucks.

EDIT3: the other thing to note is that if your pet dies, immediately resummon. If the target lives longer than ~12 seconds, it is a dps loss.

EDIT4: Another interesting note: without RS, you do a total personal potency of 16150, or a loss of 559 p/3 min, 7.8 p/GCD, or 3.1 pps. This is a personal dps loss of 3.3%, or total dps loss of 2.5%. Thus, its interesting that RS, which is so valued as a DPS cooldown, might not actually affect your dps over its entire cooldown by a significant amount. Obviously, it still impacts your dps within that 20 seconds extremely significantly.

EDIT5: and as to using spur/rouse, if you used them separately, you would lose 2.6% pet dps, or 0.65% total dps. If you did not use spur/rouse at all, you would lose 18.8% pet dps, or 4.7% total dps. This is significant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

snip

---

Now this is a quality post that I can get behind!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mjk

I'm trying to write a parser but I can't seem to get DoT numbers to show in the combat log. I want my parser to be accurate - without these numbers it's all just guesstimate. Anyone know how to get DoT's to show in the combat log?

---

You'll need to wait until they release an API for addons or include all combat information in the combat log. Currently, there isn't a way to get the CL to show DoTs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

/snip

---

FINALLY! Some actual math! Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Can someone who actually knows BLM give a similar summary of BLM pps? Obviously they have procs, so use the average case.

---

So, I would try to piece this together for you, however it would require access to the game which I don't have at the moment. Because I cannot find posted anywhere exactly how much the potency multiplier is for having stacks of astral fire/umbral ice. For your proc's (40% for Firestarter and 5% for thunder on EACH DoT tick) that shouldn't be too hard to estimate, but your damage and rotation will vary from mage to mage just based on how much mana they have (more mana = more fire which directly relates to an increase in possible firestarter as well)

Astral 3 = 100% potency increase. Unsure about the effects of Umbral.