Why does everything take so long?

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

And again, you're assuming they're planning on adding one.

You have no idea what they are working on, so you have no idea how long it should take.

I'm sure they're all playing frisbee in the office, telling fart jokes and making copies of their butt-cheeks. They're not working at all, since you seem to think SE is willing to pay all them for doing nothing. >.>

They have told us they are making drastic changes. Those take time. Just because they aren't updating the game for every little change they plan to make doesn't mean they aren't doing anything.

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i totally get that this project includes more than just an auction house. but i don't understand why it takes so long to see any dramatic changes. we have seen no dramatic changes so far, which is ABSOLUTELY unheard of after 6 months of development on ANY project, let a lone a flagship project that FAILED and REQUIRES a metric shit ton of changes.

You know what? yeah, they are dicking around the water cooler all day.

if i told any of my clients that i tweaked my software slightly for the last few months, i'd be up shit's creek without a paddle. i'm expected to have dramatic changes quarter to quarter. oh boy, I made a SOAP service to integrate a 3rd party bug reporting service into every day pharma web apps last quarter? this quarter i better have that shit be single sign on enabled, with real time feedback enabling, and integrated with every other intranet web-app, or my ass is toast.

i can;t believe any of you are accepting the pace that these changes are coming to FFXIV. even if I look at the MMO development world alone, under a microscope, there are MMO developers who are puttnig out more conent and more fixes faster than FFXIV ever has. Trion released a world event and a dozen patches' worth of bug fixes in A SINGLE MONTH after release. it took the original FFXIV dev team TWO MONTHS to release their first patch after official service began.

P.S. for whoever said a web interfaced database is much simpler than a thick client interfaced database, you're wrong. sorry guy, it's not hard to plan up an add/remove database with or without web interfaces. in addition, copying the same environment from one server to 18 servers is a minuscule task.

Because game development takes time, MMORPG development takes even more. That's all there's to it. Systems need to be devised, designed, implemented and tested extensively.
To think that an amateurial (not to mention incomplete, lackluster and underfeatured) webpage is anywhere similar or comparable to a system that needs to work in a complex environment as a MMORPG (without causing conflicts, bugs or crashes) and to meet commercial quality standards is as ridiculous as is gets.

And lol at comparisons with patches from other MMORPGs that are almost entirely made with bug fixes (because the game was launched with a load of bugs, while FFXIV was rather low in that, compared to the average of the market) and content that was in development since way before release.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

i totally get that this project includes more than just an auction house. but i don't understand why it takes so long to see any dramatic changes. we have seen no dramatic changes so far, which is ABSOLUTELY unheard of after 6 months of development on ANY project, let a lone a flagship project that FAILED and REQUIRES a metric shit ton of changes.

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Welcome to the real world. A project that requires a basic redesign is much harder and takes more time than to simply build upon systems that don't need to be reinvente and redesiged.
As for the "No dramatic changes", that's a silly statement, the redesign of the market wards itself is definitely a "dramatic change" for instance. Just because it's not called "auction house" (thing that some people are evidently too stuck on), and it's not what you personally demand doesn't make it less sizable.

Actually the opposite is true for basically every point you make. Dramatic changes are quite uneard of in the first six months after release pretty much in any MMORPG. As for "FAILED", a project "FAILS" when it gets closed. FFXIV is up and running, and under heavy development.

Extensive use of hyperbole (and caps) doesn't add more solidity to your points. Quite the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Because game development takes time, MMORPG development takes even more. That's all there's to it. Systems need to be devised, designed, implemented and tested extensively.
To think that an amateurial (not to mention lackluster and underfeatured) webpage is anywhere similar or comparable to a system that needs to work in a complex environment as a MMORPG (without causing conflicts, bugs or crasges) and to meet commercial quality standards is as ridiculous as is gets.

And lol at comparisons with patches from other MMORPGs that are almost entirely made with content that was in development since way before release.

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Couldn't have said it any better.

Especially when you have to work out the kinks in the complex coding that the earlier programmers were using to add tweaks or change the systems completely.

Its like going over a past-employee's paperwork after they have been fired the day before. You have to scan through and see what to take out and where to add in.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

i totally get that this project includes more than just an auction house. but i don't understand why it takes so long to see any dramatic changes. we have seen no dramatic changes so far, which is ABSOLUTELY unheard of after 6 months of development on ANY project, let a lone a flagship project that FAILED and REQUIRES a metric shit ton of changes.

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3 months

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You know what? yeah, they are dicking around the water cooler all day.

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Oh, did you take any pictures when you visited their offices?

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if i told any of my clients that i tweaked my software slightly for the last few months, i'd be up shit's creek without a paddle. i'm expected to have dramatic changes quarter to quarter. oh boy, I made a SOAP service to integrate a 3rd party bug reporting service into every day pharma web apps last quarter? this quarter i better have that shit be single sign on enabled, with real time feedback enabling, and integrated with every other intranet web-app, or my ass is toast.

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Oh, SE is only making slight changes? Guess they don't have plans to redo 70% of the game, huh?

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i can;t believe any of you are accepting the pace that these changes are coming to FFXIV. even if I look at the MMO development world alone, under a microscope, there are MMO developers who are puttnig out more conent and more fixes faster than FFXIV ever has. Trion released a world event and a dozen patches' worth of bug fixes in A SINGLE MONTH after release. it took the original FFXIV dev team TWO MONTHS to release their first patch after official service began.

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Well, seeing as A) I'm not paying for it, B) I realize that changing 70% takes time, and C) I'm having fun playing...

Yeah, I could care less that it's taking awhile to implement changes. Also, you can't use Rift as a measuring stick... the changes they made were minor and they had the "content" finished before they released the game. They aren't redesigning their core mechanics.

Sorry man, you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sorry man, you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

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I'm in complete agreement. Which is rather scary...

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I'm in complete agreement. Which is rather scary...

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Strangely enough, aside from Death Penalty and AA, we do tend to be on the same page for almost everything else. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Strangely enough, aside from Death Penalty and AA, we do tend to be on the same page for almost everything else. ^_^

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Actually I don't mind either the presence or absence of AA. I'm fine with both options, and I always considered it a fairly marginal aspect of combat and a very much overrated issue.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

i can;t believe any of you are accepting the pace that these changes are coming to FFXIV.

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Wha... you don't believe me? Q_Q

Anyways, wtf can we do about it? *shrugs* You can probably change the way they implement a certain system, or even get SE to consider your ideas. As far as whining about the pace at which we are getting updated goes.. well, good luck with that.

Confused as to how he can say there is no drastic changes, not just him there was a few others through-out this thread who mentioned that.

Have you guys even been playing from the release date? Abriael commented on the changes to Wards so I wont go there. Instead I'll target SP.

Release : Needed to proc off skills / basic attacks to earn SP, and if members in your party exceeding the mobs 'cap'(not player cap) at least 1 member would not gain a SINGLE skill point. Even if through-out the battle it showed him gaining some.
(Note: I am not talking about mobs dying and text not showing XP/SP from DoT deaths, that is different)
Some mobs you would go 3-5 dry streaks not gaining a single SP, due to killing to fast or just unlucky.

Fix w/ Tanaka: Increased mobs 'cap'(not player cap) and tweaked the bug out of people getting zero SP. Increased Party SP bonuses(but not by a lot). Proceeded with another minor patch to party bonuses which did help but benefited the more number of members the higher you would notice this.

KEEP IN MIND THROUGH-OUT ALL OF THIS YOU STILL NEEDED TO PROC OFF ABILITIES AND/OR BASIC ATTACKS TO GAIN SP. (If you were a glad you had it even worse, players were cap'd at 500 no matter what, and since sentinel is its own class if you blocked and gained 300 SP off this. The MAX sword SP you could get was 200.)

Fix with Yoshi : Sadly party bonuses declined at first BUT a HUGE improvement came, increased player based cap, and removed the chance off hit to gain SP. SP was 100% guaranteed now.(any shield wearer would receive SP SEPARATE from the players 'cap pool'). Party bonus have returned to a decent # but instead caters to 4-8 members, roughly keeping the lvl range that was used from the beginning.

Chance to gain SP v. 100% SP - seems to me that is a pretty significant change

I agree with you wind. It seems to me people want changes they can see, not feel.