Better Materia System

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We'll continue to work on improving the system so please let us know what you think!

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I think Mutamix should've acquired enough data to provide something better than a prototype for additional melds by now. People have been blowing stuff up constantly all over the place, so much that the Ul'dahns are lucky they're rich enough to keep up with repairs, or their city wouldn't even have a zone A!

Other than that...

Why do we have to have tiers within tiers?! That drives me crazy! It's a massive waste of space, and in 2.0 we're getting our inventory slashed! It should be simplified to conserve room and also so that people don't need a breakdown every time of minute details.

And for failure rates with melding, if we have to have that I'd like to see failures increase chances on future attempts until successful. And that reset doesn't occur with melds of an innate hundred-percent chance, of course. It'd still take an immense amount of time, but making a super piece of gear would actually become feasible. Being screwed over by probability for all eternity doesn't make for an enjoyable experience.

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Originally Posted by Soulfire

I think Mutamix should've acquired enough data to provide something better than a prototype for additional melds by now. People have been blowing stuff up constantly all over the place, so much that the Ul'dahns are lucky they're rich enough to keep up with repairs, or their city wouldn't even have a zone A!

Other than that...

Why do we have to have tiers within tiers?! That drives me crazy! It's a massive waste of space, and in 2.0 we're getting our inventory slashed! It should be simplified to conserve room and also so that people don't need a breakdown every time of minute details.

And for failure rates with melding, if we have to have that I'd like to see failures increase chances on future attempts until successful. And that reset doesn't occur with melds of an innate hundred-percent chance, of course. It'd still take an immense amount of time, but making a super piece of gear would actually become feasible. Being screwed over by probability for all eternity doesn't make for an enjoyable experience.

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Read the first post, make more comments :D. I can make better edits with more suggestions / opinons (may not listen to all of them but I read everything lol).

I agree RNG is dumb - first page is one way to completely remove RNG from materia but keep materia powerful, unique, and still something that can be an end game content piece.

There are very few options for long term fixes without completely changing parts of the system, in my opinion. Some people were shocked at why I gutted so much. You cant add in a progressive % like in loot system though , because it basically ensures you are going to break some (like the current system does anyways, its just more random). "Break this item 5 times, get it the 6th time", its a really silly thing to think about. Remove the whole breaking X Y times to get Y+1 idea from the game - requires a complete gut*.

* You would still have spirit binding (breaking) - but Its of items you dont care for, unlike materia melding. Also you could just make it so you can break the item right after crafting and not require an exp party, but that has some other repercussions outside of materia. So I didnt give it much talk.

After all the great suggestions that players gave, reading this from the devs is quite underwhelming... again.

I'd say at this point, just get rid of the system altogether, it's already pretty terrible and it doesn't seem it is going to change.

Not to mention that they stated they didn't change anything to the results of materia creation lately, but anyone used to create lots of materias before all the relic stuff can clearly see that they did change the RNG secretly.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

I've never in any game on any forum seen anyone complain about level capping in 3 months.
I've never in any game on any forum seen anyone complain about gear capping in 3 more.

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You have selective reading then. It's a pretty big issue for WoW how they have gear that outdates itself every single update wiping out anything you have accomplished, the game has very few long term goals actually worth striving for.

Best suggestion I have seen is making certain gear guarantee into a tier IV of a set type, the sarnga -> HE4 and obelisk -> savage IV. This would help cap the cost on those types of materia which are totally out of control.

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Originally Posted by Tango

Best suggestion I have seen is making certain gear guarantee into a tier IV of a set type, the sarnga -> HE4 and obelisk -> savage IV. This would help cap the cost on those types of materia which are totally out of control.

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Hm? I dont get what you are trying to say...

What do you think is the reason for the ~2 Mil for a Savage Might IV or actually the 20+ Mil for a Doublemeld Obelisk? Savage Might isnt actually rare, so that is not the reason if you were thinking that.

The biggest problem I and ALOT of players have with this current materia system is just the whole "Throw money at it until it works" mentality behind getting these ungodly melds. It really gets annoying when someone has those "Oh-so-coveted Triple Tier IV STR Felt Bracers" that you've been trying for like, weeks, blowing up millions, and someone who could quite possibly be much MUCH worse at the game than you, can get it in one try (not likely, but it could happen) just because they're lucky. The only way to negate the luck factor is to throw copious amounts of gil at your meld until it works, which is just obsurd beyond all belief.

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Originally Posted by Siegtaru

The biggest problem I and ALOT of players have with this current materia system is just the whole "Throw money at it until it works" mentality behind getting these ungodly melds. It really gets annoying when someone has those "Oh-so-coveted Triple Tier IV STR Felt Bracers" that you've been trying for like, weeks, blowing up millions, and someone who could quite possibly be much MUCH worse at the game than you, can get it in one try (not likely, but it could happen) just because they're lucky. The only way to negate the luck factor is to throw copious amounts of gil at your meld until it works, which is just obsurd beyond all belief.

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That doesnt happen only with materia, someone can also go in a pug pt for dungeons and get a Cuirass in the first dungeon he ever did in his life with his first 50 char he leveled 3 days ago, and you did 300 before even seeing your first.

Luck will always be a factor for any MMOs because they all have RNG.

And you dont need to spend a single gil to make multiple melds, if you have crafts leveled you can farm materials to do equipment for spiritbond.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

System:
Firstly, you can no longer break equipment by melding* materia to that item.
Secondly, each piece of equipment will have a set number of slots – this will make gear easier to balance and you can then allow rare, and rare ex items to last longer in their usefulness by letting them have materia (craftable items will thusly have an average of more slots then dungeon finds – but a lower base stat, dungeon items have a lower slot count but higher base stats (on average)).
*We should also probably not use the word meld, in the case of this system.. :P

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I like idea of a set number of slots very much. However I would like to add a few things.

I agree that certain materia should only go on certain peices of equipment. to help immersion with this, I would propose either Tiers or types of slots. the only downside is it can add considerable complexity to the system. and this may not be desirable. as many are confused with the current system.

I think +1 gear should have more slots. but maybe not at first.

As you spirit bond with gear, it should increase in power. as you use a particular tool in real life, you learn a few things that make it unique. while a sword is a sword is a sword, depending on who crafted it the balance, grip, etc. may be slightly different. as you gain familiarity with a piece of equipment you become more proficient with it. I think this should be reflected in spirit bonding.

as an example:

NQ swords start with one materia slot. once spirit bound it gains a special status as a spirit bound item. At this point you can take the sword to an NPC and for a fee they will add another materia slot. allowing you to further augment the weapon.

Alternatively I have a Maelstrom LT bow. once this one is spirit bound the delay is decreased by .1 or perhaps i gain an additional bonus to AP with the set bonus active.

I also think melding a piece should reset it's spirit bond gauge. once melded, spirit bonding increases/augments the materia you have bound to the weapon. you can only spirit bond with a weapon X number of times.

this gives players a choice.

Lets say you can spirit bond with a weapon 3 times. if you trade it in while it is spirit bond with no materia, you gain another materia slot.

However if you trade it in while a materia is bond to that slot, it instead augments that materia.

Because I dislike tiers of materia, this is a way to further increase certain stats. you can add a STR materia to your lance. spirit bond it 3 times and have a "Tier 3" strength materia.

Alternatively you can add 3 more slots to the weapon by spirit bonding with nothing it it several times. and you can add multiple affects with a lesser affect. IE: tier1 att, str, crit, pie. or you could go to two slots and then ultimately have tier 2 str/pie or any combination of appropriate materia.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

How to get materia:
Materia will no longer spawn from spirit bound gear – however essences of the gear will be taken from gear that has been spirit bound. These essences may be melded together with a catalyst to MAKE a materia (a process of compounding and compressing while mixing in different environments and ingredients). However, materia –may- drop from monsters who already made them which may have different values then player made ones as they are made from unknown processes, and or are found (meaning made over long long periods of time - Gaia materia rather then synthesized materia). Rare, and Rare EX materia’s ? Yes.

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I don't think essences should come from weapons/gear. I'd rather them come from other places.

Quests: perhaps daily quests. While I find these annoying it could make sense.

Gathering: a botanist out in the woods is harvesting mushrooms. while they are digging they feel a strong 'earthly' presence and find a VIT/Earth essence. need to complete a quest before you can harness said essences.

Dropped from mobs: lingering energies are absorbed by the wildlife and you can harness this essence similar to how DoL do it. again a quest should be completed before you can do this.

Gardening: hey, you have a big yard now! let's put in some plants that will have a chance to produce an essence.

I like the idea of taking an essence and using a catalyst to produce a materia. this makes sense to me and sounds like a good system. However you should be able to buy catalysts from npcs and they should be untradeable, with the exception of certain rare high level materia. I think the production of materia should be handled by NPCs and not PC crafters. a fee should be associated with it.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

How to place materia:
Just put it into the equipment. Materia will grow as you gain experience, after reaching its cap exp it will gain a bonus to its stats and will also become a better ingredient in another synth (yes using a materia, a catalyst, and some ingredients, this would make an easy recipe to make HQ and higher tier materias).

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I think this should be handled by SBing as i mentioned previously.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Crafting of materia:
This calls for a new crafting class, awww yeah. Unlike other crafting classes however materia will take time to craft – that is… Literally your recipe will be over a period of time. Much like gardening in FF11 took time. When beginning a craft you would take a catalyst – something that the essence can bind to (different essences would work differently, and or better with different catalysts). Once you have started the synth this would begin a project.

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In the absence of true gilsinks, i think this should be handled by NPCs and not PCs. by removing this from player hands the game has another chance to take money back and keep the economy more stable. stronger materia should be more expensive. etc. etc.

this also keeps it under control somewhat, and gives a more realistic option for players. because it's no longer a gamble more people will do it. and it will be more accessible and less likely that people will overcharge. the worth of a certain piece of materia is more concrete.

of course i'm of the opinion that materia should be untradeable. but if you don't like to craft you need to be able to make money somehow. you can farm essences/materia from mobs and sell that.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I would greatly prefer theses projects are conducted in our mog houses coming in 2.0 – that way they are physically placed down in the environment where you can watch and come back to your project (I imagine something like the metriod’s are contained in the cylinder machine – or some container you can look into).

When you begin your project you can set its environment (temperatures, and liquids that it is submersed in) – applying the settings successfully would require a craft/gathering like minigame (getting you exp which would grant you abilities and better control over settings). After initiated you can come back at whatever intervals you choose** – however giving the project time to work naturally will increase the quality of the synth*.

For example if you work tirelessly right from the start you will lock out certain qualities of materia from forcing the process (and may even fail if you force it too much and are not a high enough level)*. However also waiting too long (past its golden time) would also reduce quality and may lock out certain tiers or materias (this is to prevent players having to synth for too long of a time – and making a weird economy)*. **

Notes:
*While I said synthing too fast will lock out some possible materias I would also recommend that some materias become available only when you synth fast.
** All of the quality, past applications on the project should be easily available so tracking the project is not guess work. I repeat, not guess work – if you have experience you should know what you will get.

You can discover recipes by yourself or learn them from NPCs. Recipes would work by telling you what catalyst and what ingredients to use and when – thus creating a consistent way to create particular materias.

The time windows (the interval to check) should be consistent and easy to figure out. Also while I know many wouldn’t jump on this idea – I think your projects (if they are in the mog house) should be able to be checked and modified through an official app (online and for smart phones). That way you can easily work on your project and not feel entirely bound to log into the client just for 5 seconds.

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As mentioned before i think materia should not be synthesized by players. we should need to gather the materials and then have an NPC make them.

I would concede and say free companies can purchase the equipment needed to synthesize materia.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Some possible Materials:
Catalysts, other materias, complex apparatuses (blacksmith, goldsmith can work together to make these devices), liquids for incubation (alchemy), ingredients (essences from spirit bound and collected gear, and perhaps other ingredients found in the wild or crafted).

-The above is to prevent an intense surplus of materia, keeping materia cool and to make solo materia finding less stressful (Random Number Generator is mean npc..). Again would like to mention you can make your own materia (and following a recipie you would know which one you will get (besides HQ, no to very little randomness)) and you may also find materia's off monsters like coblyns, humanoids and special ones off some bosses.

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if you want to prevent a surplus it must be difficult to obtain. If we've learned anything recently, is if people can find a way to mass produce something, they will. and if you allow PCs to be able to produce materia you can bet sure as anything someone will figure out a way to bot it and abuse the system.

because this is a way to further augment out stats, and will mainly be for endgame (or capped content if they add it) I think all materials involved should be U/U. or at least untradable

people who do not wish to be involved with materia will have alternatives to augment equipment through spiritbonding dungeon and/or GC gear.

Ultimately the differences between the options should be the same. IE a fully mastered and spiritbound LT weapons should be roughly equivalent to a player customized weapon of equal level. customized weapons will, of course, be more flexible in power as you can add in a ton of attackpower or str or w/e.

the ultimate potential of a given piece of equipment should be a combination of how difficult it is to obtain and it's base level.

if you want nice stuff i think you should have to work for it. simply being able to buy the best materia in the game because you are rich does not sit well with me.

However because you have earned a lot of gil (either through RMT or in a more legit fashion) you should be able to enjoy higher potentials AFTER working for them by SBing.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

[snipped for space]

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I left in spirit binding gear and weapons because its good for the economy - since crafters can make gear to change into materia materials in my system. this doesnt mean essences can -only- come from these places, however they should be a main source to keep crafters jobs :D. We dont want to have homeless crafters lol. Also I think that other ingredients non essence would be great to come from other sources, like gardening as you said - its just important that we keep a form of spirit binding for the economy.

If you remove that then you have removed a fairly large chunk of the economy.

I understand your feelings though - somewhere in my post I say "I wish to remove this part, but the repercussions would be too great".

Near the end I also mentioned getting materia from monsters, quests, and the things similar. So the only way is not from crafting (though the major source except for some unique named materias should be from the players - to keep the economy turning).

Since this system lets you equip materia at any time a low level quest or monster could reward weaker materia you could use immediately and take with you with and over time level up - materia level up maybe I didnt specify but yes I think they should go with EXP (or perhaps specific actions for rare materia like a blood materia would require you to kill X monsters regardless of exp reward).

This system easily allows for rare ex materia's as you could add and remove them (hence putting it into something doesnt screw you to that weapon till you get rid of it).

I think this is what you were talking about.

Yes I would like materia to be special so we have to prevent a surplus, hence there will be time elements, and a lot of personal effort. Obviously exact values would be easiest to discuss if we actually had a testing bed. So I left things somewhat vague as values would be known best from testing.

I also want each tier to be progressively harder to get - so people really go WOW!! when they see a max tier materia. Since they dont break, this wont be a problem as if you did it in the system currently in 1.0 (current system falls apart in some aspects, and is ready to fall apart in others).


Thank you for the reply btw! ^_^