#WukLamatMustDie

Can't edit. She does just her nephew run a entire city state never did she considered harm that might cause she install child as leader just as Alexander did to Sphene which harm Sphene she wasn't given time grow up what of people now suffer withdrawal for soul devices and death of family and lost of memory how is their help them the people happiness is meaningless if the city state people don't know who there or how run they city state

Her people could enslaved them they happy that all that matters and she turn and ignore it all to people happiness. Her people happiness could turn her into the villain if it becomes all she care about

In fact that a great way of changing my Wuk Lamar slowed in slave the people of solutions nine they service a purpose turn them into a servant class the WoL realized she unfit to lead and opposed her aswell she then banned the scion and WoL for yet the people slowly realize that WoL is right Wuk Lamar has be put down as they leader

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I present a slightly different take.

Snip

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This is my favourite take to be honest.

Adding my own perspective to this I think Wuk Lamat isn't an inherently terrible character. I liked her in the 6.5.8 patch. The patch itself was really bad of course because setting up DT in a sub patch was a really poor decision. But at that point we were only presented with Wuk Lamat as a character premise. And this premise could have become a very enjoyable character if they had just gone differently about her writing.

I think reducing the intense focus on her to give the story as a whole and other characters besides her more room to breathe and unfold would also have made her better. If other characters are more complex Wuk can also have more complex interactions with them.
They should also have had more genuine moments of failure and reflection as learning experiences.

Lastly I also think they should have handled her world view differently. A big problem in my eyes is that, with most players being adults, and a rather notable portion probably being 30+ by now, we probably have a world view that is a lot more mature than that of the average shounen anime teenage protagonist. Even if we are optimists, many people's optimism is a lot more realistic. And then there are many of us who are just plain realists, pessimists, disillusioned or cynical.
So for many of us, Wuk's repetitive "peace is good" attitude will feel childish and simple-minded because it's just shallow "Because I say so"-moralising without any actual substance that demonstrates proper understanding of what war, peace and conflict between cultures means.

So all in all, I don't think the starting trope of an insecure big mouth that needs to find herself and her place in the world (and that may very well be the throne of Tural) while trying to achieve something that is too big for her at the beginning of the story is a bad one.
You can successfully write the arc of such a character growing into the person she needs to be to achieve the feat that was previously impossible for her.

Wuk had everything she needed to be a good character.
As everything else with Dawntrail the writers just decided to...not use it and instead just completely undermine her potential with their abysmal writing.
As if they were handed good concepts, somebody said "Challenge time: turn this idea into the worst possible story you can come up with" and the writers eagerly accepted...

I don't think Wuk should literally or metaphorically die. If they vastly improve her writing with those three points I'd give her a chance again (though I don't think this will happen because then patch Wuk's characterisation would have to be inconsistent with 7.0 Wuk and they probably don't want to do that).

But if this is not the case I'd prefer if her presence is reduced. I wouldn't care about a random cameo here and there because in those cases she would by defition not be the hyper-focus of the story.

I just don't want a repetition of what happened in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

snip.

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Agree.
I think the biggest question Yoshida and his devs need to ask themselves is:
“For whom do we want to make FF14 the next ten years?”

If the answer is
“for the fans and players from all those years before” then they need to go back to the old worldview of Etherys.
It was gritty, it was grey but with an underlying message of “we can overcome this if we work together “
I don’t say they shouldn’t shake things up and take risks but there are other places to do that like sidequests or Raid storylines.

If the answer is
“for new players and a younger audience” then they have to spell that out clear and open so everyone knows what to expect and if they should quit or if they are ready to go along that new direction.

Can both sides swap? Yes.
A longtime fan can still like the DT story telling and a new fan can come in because of DT but still like the old stories better.
I would think though that the majority has their view and expectations and don’t really want to stray from it.

The writing can be criticized and it deserves it but over everything there sit the higher ups like Yoshida.
This direction ultimately comes from him and his team and I don’t believe he didn’t knew what this expansion is.
He gave his ok probably in best faith and really thinking this would be the correct way.

FF14 was always a game with shonen tendencies but even Shonen can have a deeper and better writing than DT and it has proven that before.

Mary Sue has become the biggest writer trop today in desire appease the culture left the Mary Sue. The best way to deal with is to break it. See this may be goal of SE the western FFXIV has a Wuk Lamar. Then when they eye turn elsewhere make her the villain. A villain can have best desire but if she does at except of others it still evil

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

Her people could enslaved them they happy that all that matters and she turn and ignore it all to people happiness. Her people happiness could turn her into the villain if it becomes all she care about

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Taking 'protecting my peoples happiness' to horrifying extremes was what they did with Sphene in order to contrast her with Wuk Lamat. It'd just be boring, lazy and out of nowhere if they flipped a switch and did a 180 with Wuk Lamat.

I get it, people don't like her, but that doesn't mean suddenly spinning her into a villain would make the story good. Especially if not handled by a better writing team.

Go outside

Wuk Lamat doesn't need to die, she just needs less screen time, and to be humbled.

Killing Wuk Lamat actually highlights an even worse problem - The Scion's plot armor. Everyone dies around them and they never die even when they should have (looking at you Ysh). There's only so many times they can pull that and we're nearing the limit.

Now, if you have Wuk Lamat try to befriend a foreign entity only to have it take advantage of her good nature then horribly betray her by killing people she's close to (like Koana), then you'd get a massive chance to have her mature fully into the role of a leader.

Why Koana? No one else is really built up to be as meaningful to her as him. If it were someone else they'd need to build that person up first which is fine, but don't kill random guard B or newly introduced cousin C then expect me or for that matter Wuk Lamat to really care.

How does this avoid Scion plot armor? Simple, you don't have the WoL or the Scions present. You have a fight, Koana is bleeding out before Wuk Lamat's eyes, and you play as Wuk Lamat to save him. She isn't fast enough, he passes away, she's left with regret, guilt, and the "what if" scenarios because there was a chance to save him. She's also filled with anger, like pure rage (we've done despair in EW), and it is up to the WoL to help guide her through that rage using their experience with Nidhogg to help.

Hell! You could bring Wuk Lamat to Ishgard, walk her through Nidhogg's story, the story of what you get from pure rage, have her speak with Hraesvelgr and Haurchefant's brother who can speak to how his brother's death devastated his father, and finally you can introduce her to our boy Aymeric, a man who had to put aside his own rage / bias for a friend in prefer to bring people together and rule.

This would actually be really good.... Please do this.

I'd be happier if she just fell into obscurity. Not even because I think wanting her death is overreacting, but seriously--we all know that if Wuk Lamat died it would completely command yet another scene.