When are we as player going to demand from SE a better MSQ experience

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Originally Posted by Valkret

I can't speak for ESO, but I've played the other two extensively.

Purely form a gameplay perspective I would rank then as such: GW2>WOW>>>>>FFXIV
From a lore and story perspective I would rank them as such: FFXIV>>>>>WOW>GW2

GW2 delivers its story with very little loss of character control. There are some cutscenes here and there, but for the most part each story chapter is heavily focused on gameplay. Lots of exploration, jumping puzzles, battling other enemies and some bosses which are actually quite fun and challenging. And after you are done with a story chapter it usually opens a new area/map which is dynamic, meaning there are events that change the layout of the map and eventually culminate in large map events. Not to mention the zones are full of secrets and fun challenges such as races, jumping puzzles, etc.

Wow is a little more traditional, you go from one zone to the other completing quests, and the story is drip fed to you through these same quests, and standard cutscenes here and there. Other than these cutscenes you basically never lose control of your character. The zones over the years have become more engaging with world quests, treasures and rare mobs to find, but they are not nearly as interactive as GW2.

And FFXIV well you know how it goes. Where FFXIV wins by a country mile, like is not even close, is on story delivery and dungeon/trail/raid encounter design (not mechanics, but design stuff like music and ambience of the encounter.) The world development and character lore in FFXIV is so far ahead of the other two is not even a fair comparison.

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Thank you for an insightful comparison.
GW2's strength with zones truly is FFXIV's major weakness, where maps are super static lacking any exploration incentives.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Thank you for an insightful comparison.
GW2's strength with zones truly is FFXIV's major weakness, where maps are super static lacking any exploration incentives.

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Mao agrees. Zones in GW2 are HUGE! Is tons of verticality, lots of critters, puzzles to solve and places to discovers in each zone. Is reason why mount system in GW2 works so well. Distances great enoughs to make using variety of mounts worthwhiles.

The world of Eorzea is so boring , and bare of content. Its like a paint , barely moves. the only thing that changes is fates...and fates has been as boring as always because its always the same 2 formulas

kill things - touch/gather things (u can still kill to avoid gathering) , so yeah all fates feel the same

Sadly, I have to agree. While I did enjoy the story a lot (played it on a different character), the gameplay aspect was severely lacking. So what, I had to sit down for hours on end to read or hear people talk, and then maybe I get a dungeon after half a day of lore education?
Why is the game so afraid of letting players actually play something? It feels like Square Enix really wants to make movies, not games. Or they are way too afraid to allow people to make mistakes, or even fail at an instance, having to try again. The protagonist feels more like a tacked on feature sometimes.

DT moments spoilers follow:

Why could we not shoot things when on the train? Why could we not try to pilot the Hanu festival thing through the village, trying to pick up as many Hanu as possible?[
ETA: why do we do no damage when defending solution 9, but my NPC allies easily eat up over 20% of enemy HP with an attack? Am I not supposed to be the hero everyone looks up to?

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

The world of Eorzea is so boring , and bare of content. Its like a paint , barely moves. the only thing that changes is fates...and fates has been as boring as always because its always the same 2 formulas

kill things - touch/gather things (u can still kill to avoid gathering) , so yeah all fates feel the same

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Sometimes I'm afraid the answer is technical limitation.

Maybe FF's tech cannot support:
- zone verticality
- multiple dynamic events happening within the zone, that can support multiple NPCs and players, and the event move across the zones
- different zone phases (major zone aesthetic change triggered after certain events are completed)

Maybe all the zone can do is be a backdrop to a static cutscene.

If this is the case, then truly there is no hope for a solution soon.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

- different zone phases (major zone aesthetic change triggered after certain events are completed)

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This is how they change the phases in dungeon/raid fights, by controlling the weather- which is tied to the zone
It is also how they change the events (christmas, halloween, moonfire faire tower, etc) in a zone. It is always sitting there in the background, ready to be used

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Sometimes I'm afraid the answer is technical limitation.

Maybe FF's tech cannot support:
- zone verticality
- multiple dynamic events happening within the zone, that can support multiple NPCs and players, and the event move across the zones
- different zone phases (major zone aesthetic change triggered after certain events are completed)

Maybe all the zone can do is be a backdrop to a static cutscene.

If this is the case, then truly there is no hope for a solution soon.

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Again, older, less visually interesting games have been doing this.

The problem with "Vertical" in this game comes from version 1.0, you could not even jump in that game, you just ran into a lot of invisible walls... or inch high fences. So the original world, Uldah, Limsa, Gridania all are not designed for vertical movement without taking the stairs. When we got flying mounts, that should have changed, but it still feels like the game is so unwilling to have a 3D map, when much older games (think "DOOM" and "DESCENT" games from the 90's) actually used true 3d dungeons/maps that involved navigating, jumping or climbing in 3D space.

What the game needs to do is quit taking so many shortcuts in that regard. When I approach a ladder, I should climb it, not click on it and then suddenly at the top. When I jump, I should have some idea of momentum, right now there's none. The jumping minigames in the golden saucer, versus the ones that take place outside show you what's wrong with exploration in the game. If you have a flying mount, you should be able to reach everywhere, but you can't.

As for different Zone phases. Original Mor Dhona. Doman Enclave. The Firmament. All of these change over time. Just other than Mor Dhona which basically changed due to patches to go with the post-ARR story, the other two are basically "two different players see two different things." The NPC's are all in the same spot, regardless of what the player sees. There are smaller changes to other maps that happen when you progress the beast tribe storylines. (Like the balloon you build for the Ixal, restoring things with the moogles, and now the loporitts... uh... well something.)

We know the devs are capable of more, but I don't think FFXIV players appreciate changes to the world that aren't induced by the story. FFXIV's story telling, and dungeon designs are actually pretty good, while many other games don't tell a good story, only tell it through a wall of text that the NPC doesn't even speak. I couldn't tell you what the story for Archeage or TERA was because there was only a few cutscenes, everything else was a page of text you saw when you accepted a quest. I know they did have cut scenes, because I do distinctly remember seeing some, but they were forgettable.

There are lots of mobs you can kill outside of MSQ. I typically circumvent them as it is. There were some "fights" in this expansion that we watched rather than took part in. Lots of people complained about playing as another character or role in previous expansions so they seemed to reduce that, but I honestly enjoyed that content because I'm a "gamer". I wish they would have had more of that this expansion rather than having us watch on the sidelines.

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Originally Posted by Valkret

WOW again you did not read the post. I can see this is not worth arguing with you,

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I read what was needed to read, invalid complaints about people having skipped story and now complaining about it, maybe the quick queu times make people expect too much.

You don't want to argue, alone based on that I do not agree with you and think you are a fake.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Sadly, I have to agree. While I did enjoy the story a lot (played it on a different character), the gameplay aspect was severely lacking. So what, I had to sit down for hours on end to read or hear people talk, and then maybe I get a dungeon after half a day of lore education?
Why is the game so afraid of letting players actually play something? It feels like Square Enix really wants to make movies, not games. Or they are way too afraid to allow people to make mistakes, or even fail at an instance, having to try again. The protagonist feels more like a tacked on feature sometimes.

DT moments spoilers follow:

Why could we not shoot things when on the train? Why could we not try to pilot the Hanu festival thing through the village, trying to pick up as many Hanu as possible?[
ETA: why do we do no damage when defending solution 9, but my NPC allies easily eat up over 20% of enemy HP with an attack? Am I not supposed to be the hero everyone looks up to?

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I think that's going to be another big sticking point, you either like or hate this MSQ, but the game offers no alternative. If you want to do any other content you must sit through the MSQ, even if you don't like it sit here for hours on end with content you strongly dislike in the hopes of having some content you like.

Honestly it might be time for them to massively shrink the MSQ or give people the option to skip the MSQ and level to 100 their own way or they may end up struggling to keep a fan base.