Healing Focus or DPS Focus

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I mean Warrior's only barely more interesting than healers at this point. The healers constantly make me think about this joke, where DPS is spiciness, and all four healers respond the same way that she does. Warrior, I imagine, thinks the whole wheat is just the right amount of spice.

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WAR is the one that says they love the hot tabasco sauce you added .... but it's just ketchup.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

WAR is the one that says they love the hot tabasco sauce you added .... but it's just ketchup.

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I made a FFXIV DPS Scoville scale with references to real-world spiciness:

https://i.imgur.com/cqIj3OZ.png

I am aware that Jalapenos are not that spicy, which is exactly my point.

Man, it's just sad to see DRG being regarded as one of the more advanced/difficult jobs now, when just an expansion ago it was seen as the most accessible melee job. Like I was taken aback a few days ago when I fucked up during a raid and someone in the party made an excuse for me by pointing out I apparently play the most busy DPS in the game. When the fuck did that happen?

Because it's not DRG that has changed.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Man, it's just sad to see DRG being regarded as one of the more advanced/difficult jobs now, when just an expansion ago it was seen as the most accessible melee job. Like I was taken aback a few days ago when I fucked up during a raid and someone in the party made an excuse for me by pointing out I apparently play the most busy DPS in the game. When the fuck did that happen?

Because it's not DRG that has changed.

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To be fair, I kind of threw that together quickly, so I think the actual position of some jobs is absolutely something that can be discussed, or even just how far apart some jobs are from each other relative to their positions on the scale. Even looking back, I'm asking, "Is bard really that high?" I definitely feel like it is at least a tiny bit more complex than Monk, Red Mage, and Samurai, but it does look a lot higher than maybe it should be?

Black Mage is a really odd question as well, because the actual rotation is one of the most simple and straightforward rotations in the game. The challenge of Black Mage comes entirely in the need to know when you have to move ahead of time and plan your resources around anticipating mechanics, which no other job really asks for at that level.

Honestly I think it'd be fun to iron out the proper order and placement on the scale.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Honestly I think it'd be fun to iron out the proper order and placement on the scale.

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I don't really think there is a proper order per se, job difficulty will always depend on what the player is good at.

For example, I don't understand why people tend to rate NIN so high because I find NIN to be very easy. But I have trouble grasping how to play BLM, also I tend to mix-up my order when playing DRG and end up misaligning High Jump and Geirskogul.

Different people find different things easy or difficult, so there's probably not going to be an all-encompassing job difficulty placement.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I don't really think there is a proper order per se, job difficulty will always depend on what the player is good at.

For example, I don't understand why people tend to rate NIN so high because I find NIN to be very easy. But I have trouble grasping how to play BLM, also I tend to mix-up my order when playing DRG and end up misaligning High Jump and Geirskogul.

Different people find different things easy or difficult, so there's probably not going to be an all-encompassing job difficulty placement.

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Maybe it's not really about difficulty per say, but more about how much is really going on. How much is the player asked to keep track of?

With Ninja, I find it to be the most demanding simply because there is a lot that goes into each burst window, part of which is doing your Ninjutsus which you can't correct if you make a mistake unlike Dancer's steps. Also Dancer shows you the order of the steps while Ninja does not give you a Ninjutsu cheat sheet. It really isn't hard. It just requires practice, which is also why I only made the scale go up to Jalapenos.

I admit I suck at endless sets of double weaving and keeping a picture in my mind of what order to do those sets of double weaves so NIN/DRK/DNC/GNB/AST really don’t work well with me

Meanwhile I feel I’m above average at the ability to plan on the fly 5-6GCD’s out for jobs who aren’t always stagnant or alternatively jobs that are so rigid that you need to remember your exact GCD order so I tend to mesh well with BRD/old PLD/DRG/SCH/MCH/BLM

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I don't really think there is a proper order per se, job difficulty will always depend on what the player is good at.

For example, I don't understand why people tend to rate NIN so high because I find NIN to be very easy. But I have trouble grasping how to play BLM, also I tend to mix-up my order when playing DRG and end up misaligning High Jump and Geirskogul.

Different people find different things easy or difficult, so there's probably not going to be an all-encompassing job difficulty placement.

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Yeah, same. I agree NIN feels rather easy to play, if anything, BLM is the job I scratch my head anytime people praise it as the best constructed job to play because to me that's one of the jankiest, most inconsistent, largely not fun unsync jobs to play.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Maybe it's not really about difficulty per say, but more about how much is really going on. How much is the player asked to keep track of?

With Ninja, I find it to be the most demanding simply because there is a lot that goes into each burst window, part of which is doing your Ninjutsus which you can't correct if you make a mistake unlike Dancer's steps. Also Dancer shows you the order of the steps while Ninja does not give you a Ninjutsu cheat sheet. It really isn't hard. It just requires practice, which is also why I only made the scale go up to Jalapenos.

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It's basically the difference between a job being more complex because they have a mechanic you need to learn, like NIN's mudras, MNK 'zig zag' combos, or the old AST cards, and being complex because they're full of double weave windows you can't miss on without taking a dive, like MCH, BRD or GNB.

I wouldn't group AST with SMN, I'd still keep it closer , but to the right of SCH.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

I lean towards:

3. Bring back some DPS mechanics, and bring some increase to healing requirements.

The math for "healers should only heal" simply doesn't work if you want to make content clearable by imperfect players, but as many others have pointed out, there's still room for increased healing requirements before we overwhelm so-called "casuals."

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Yet other games seem to be able to design content that mostly requires healing and yet is still clearable.

Given how few players even make it into Savage content, I don't think it needs to be balanced around say the lower 50% of the population.