We need to compromise as a player base

While I agree there are some things that need to be fixed, like some of those poor Male Au Ra folks.... I don't even know what happened there I will say a lot of this is an issue of people just being jarred out of it. Those of us who the character doesn't belong to don't see the difference because this is not a character we've stared at for years. The more you are acquainted with something the more even the slightest change becomes jarring. At the same time a lot of people are just going to have to accept this is what it will be or quit.

This is the exact same thing that happened in WoW when Blizzard updated the character models. They too said they tried to keep things as close to the original as possible but as some have showed just by adjusting lighting in Photoshop it makes a huge change in some cases. This is unavoidable. And like with WoW and Blizzard, it'll be an accept it or don't but this is what is going to happen. There is no keeping the old.

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Originally Posted by Fuyume

And as I've said in several places now, I could maybe live with the weirdly round face (it is in fact more round which is shown when she looks over her shoulder on the chocobo in the original comparisons), maybe even the super pout (yes I am in fact attached to her current mouth shape considering I've had it since HW launch), but the dimples are honestly too far. It makes her feel like an entirely different character. And I've already hamfisted an excuse for her to change races once for her lore, I can't do it again without invalidating everything I've ever written for her, so a free fantasia isn't going to help me. They changed the entire vibe of the face just by changing the mouth.

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You don't need to re-write her. All you need to do is accept the fact you are seeing a more high definition version of herself, and besides graphics fidelity she is the same person. I don't know about you but when I put glasses on in the mirror I see a completely different person. Its still me, but HD and quite frankly I prefer my softer look without the glasses haha, you see less flaws.

But perhaps this is a good indication more mouth types are needed in the character creator and perhaps a cheekbone slider in a future release.

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Originally Posted by LilyEmber

The people who create this game are artists. And critique is essential to art. Otherwise they won't improve or expand. Sure, they don't have to listen to us at all, but they should be open to critique. They understand what this game and the characters mean to a lot of the players. A lot of us are roleplayers and identify greatly with our characters little quirks and unique physical features. ie. miqo'te. Seekers get cat like eyes, Keepers got cat like teeth, but then they went and filed them down. The fangs were a Keeper unique physical feature.

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It's not just that, SE is often (rightfully so) credited with crafting some of the most detailed and beautiful worlds ever to grace a screen. You log out of here and log into WoW, and the difference is like night and day. And no it's not 'art direction' - SE's engine is just better. Always has been, even since XI it had a more realistic, alive-looking world.

So when we see these visual downgrades it's not unreasonable to ask WTF? Why are we losing details? What is the reason behind some of these changes? Is it because of Xbox? Are we back to Ps2 Limitations?

What's going on? I think it's valid criticism and valid concerns.

I Feel a lot of these are just people forgetting the DT Benchmark uses new lighting and shaders. Yeah, it's going to change how your character looks.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

I Feel a lot of these are just people forgetting the DT Benchmark uses new lighting and shaders. Yeah, it's going to change how your character looks.

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And how many people have properly calibrated their monitor? I did that last year (using a Datacolor SpyderX Elite, because I was doing some photo editing) and the difference it made in how the game looks was striking. The game looks different on my spouse's OLED monitor as well.

Obviously, things like lip shape aren't very monitor-calibration dependent. But the overall "look" of a real portrait definitely is.

The point here, though, isn't that people shouldn't be unhappy with how their character looks on their monitor.
The point is that your character may look very different on your monitor compared to how it looks on a properly-calibrated monitor -
and I expect the devs are using properly-calibrated monitors. This may be a source of some of the complaints.

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Originally Posted by Bun_Vivant

And how many people have properly calibrated their monitor? I did that last year (using a Datacolor SpyderX Elite, because I was doing some photo editing) and the difference it made in how the game looks was striking. The game looks different on my spouse's OLED monitor as well.

Obviously, things like lip shape aren't very monitor-calibration dependent. But the overall "look" of a real portrait definitely is.

The point here, though, isn't that people shouldn't be unhappy with how their character looks on their monitor.
The point is that your character may look very different on your monitor compared to how it looks on a properly-calibrated monitor -
and I expect the devs are using properly-calibrated monitors. This may be a source of some of the complaints.

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They were also likely designed at a very specific graphic setting too that the devs use that will vary based on the individual PC/console, and not to mention individual driver settings too. Granted that doesn't erase everything people are complaining about and are right to ask for, like Keeper fangs back and some of the scale issues and the like. But a lot of the complaints are very much lighting/shader and display option subjective. At least I have to assume that is the case because so many of these before and afters have me sitting there going 'They are literally the same just upscaled'.

Its not shading and lighting, that's just a cope
the face has experienced severe damage in all lighting angles, camera angles, expressions

https://i.imgur.com/9fmiqur.png

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Originally Posted by Fuyume

I just don't understand why they thought changing a face's shape, in some cases quite drastically, would be well received. Those of us who chose that face did so for a reason. For an example, for myself, if I wanted dimples and round cheeks and a pouty mouth, I would've just made a face 1 au ra, why'd they have to hit face 4 with the cutification beam? I've always had a problem with how much more soft and delicate fem au ra look versus how aggressive and strong male au ra look, and "beautifying" the only face that didn't look like a perfect doll just made it worse.

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I really feel you. I had the same reaction when I looked at my Au Ra. She has just lost some of her sharpness and her sternness. She just doesn't have that "snap" anymore. I understand that the face shape is generally rather round but as you have shown in your comparison a few posts later it's clearly not just the lighting. I have seen my old char in all kinds of different lighting scenarios. I know she has a round face. But this is different.
They have made clear changes to the mouth. I completely agree that she looks like she's holding air in. The corner of her lips look puffed up beyond what you can achieve with improved lighting on the old model. The lips (the lower ones in particular) have also been made fuller and rounder, changing their overall aesthetics. But I also feel as if they took away some of the sharp edges of the eyes and the soft limbal rings also lead to a very different look/appeal.

All in all it's little tweaks but they add up, and as a sum they really alter the vibe and personality of a face.
I still like my char but I don't love her in the benchmark to be really honest. If I had to choose I'd stick with lower graphics but a face that actually captures what I want my char to look like.


My memory might completely betray me here but if I remember correctly the model changes from 1.0 to ARR weren't as drastic. Of course it was a downgrade and not an upgrade and there were differences. But it generally felt like the same facial features, just lower quality. I still felt like my character was the same person and not someone that looked similar but not quite the same.

I naively thought (and also really hoped tbh) the graphical update would mean going back to 1.0-ish standards, meaning the general looks/features would be preserved but the quality would be increased.
I didn't expect features to be changed so much.

I also recreated my bunboy and while I like his face he looks completely different. He is just straight up a different person. His face completely lost its sharpness and fierceness.

Technically speaking it may look more realistic now but the current cartoony style results in many looks having stronger definition because there are more sharp edges.
I prefer this kind of look on many faces to be honest (and yes, this is my subjective opinion). More realistic styles are not always more aesthetically pleasing to everybody.
In this case I feel like the increased realism led to a loss of visual clarity and definition of shapes.

I'm happy for everyone whose char looks good (genuinely).
But I do think voicing your disappointment is legitimate because it's not just a visual upgrade it's also a (slight) change in art direction. And if you liked the game's current art direction - and some of us have been playing this game for 10+ years - you might be really attached to it.
If that art direction is changed it's completely normal in my eyes to feel like something you always really appreciated about the game is now dampened (slightly, moderately or severely depending on how strong you perceive the change).

I disagree. Most of what I'm seeing to be completely honest doesn't look like upgrades to me. Side grade maybe. I love this game and I love these devs and I support them, but I have to voice my concern that much of the new character graphical update looks quite bad. Things generally look flatter and more lifeless and I get a "The Sims" vibe from the faces when watching the benchmark video play. Everything is very doll like, and a lot of the textures don't have the level of quality I'd expect. I don't think they've hit the mark on this. I see a substantial improvement in the environmental graphic update but I don't think what they've done with characters meets the same standard. If they don't delay pushing the updates to character models and textures, then I hope they at least commit to further improving them to inject life and character back into our warriors. They said their goal was to make sure no one felt like their WoL wasn't the same character anymore and I think they haven't achieved that goal.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I'd take a delay if it means i can still play as the same character tbh.
Just look at what they did to my baby.

https://imgur.com/a/6gAKOP7

It's a completely different character.

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Wow, the area where the upper and the lower lips meet almost look like a straight line in the benchmark, whereas in the current version the part of the upper lip, that meets the lower lip, has a lot more definition. Kind of a "wave-y" shape with a dip in the middle. It does look completely different.