Zodiark's Codex entry what do we think about it?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Did the people there even answer to Amaurot? It was mentioned that Amaurot had a sister city elsewhere in the world, which means people followed different societies or countries. That volcano area may have been an area that was not under Amaurot's purview, but another's. Or it may have been under nobody's, and Azem waltzed in there because "I'm not about to let people die or lose their homes."

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We don't know all we know is at least with the Volcano they weren't going to interfere and that anyone who wanted to leave already had. The other city(cities) on the other hand all we know is there was debate on weather or not to send help. The against sending was so that they wouldn't want to imped on them learning from dealing with the situation. It's been a long minute since I did that quest that had those two people debating about if it would be right to send help or not.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

We don't know all we know is at least with the Volcano they weren't going to interfere and that anyone who wanted to leave already had. The other city(cities) on the other hand all we know is there was debate on weather or not to send help. The against sending was so that they wouldn't want to imped on them learning from dealing with the situation. It's been a long minute since I did that quest that had those two people debating about if it would be right to send help or not.

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As it has for me, which is why I wasn't entirely sure. Time to rely on the greatest of tools for this occasion, GamerEscape.

EDIT: It sounds like it was a case of "It's not our job to interfere in every problem." Which may actually be why Azem always did the interfering...because as we can tell from both Venat and the stories of the then current Azem, eccentricity (in terms of the Ancients standards) seems to be drawn to that seat.

Huh, post of mine got removed. Weird. Don't even think it was particularly objectionable or controversial... and posts replying to it are still fine. Alright then. Moving on!

I think a big thing to remember about the Ancient world is that we actually have a very narrow window into it; we only see basically the capital city and the main academic/R&D center (I'm not sure exactly what Elpis' real world parallel would be; I kinda default to Oxford or MIT), and every single window into the world outside of that area is through the eyes of either an actual member of the government or an inner-city public servant. So we have very little ability to gauge what greater Ancient society was like, we just never meet someone outside that bubble. The people in the volcano story exist entirely in a faceless, voiceless abstract; all we know is that they exist, so we can read very little into their existence and worldviews from that.

...Well, that they exist, and that vineyards and wineries are a thing. Which feels tongue-in-cheek, but that's actually helpful; the existence of vineyards and wineries confirms the existence of industries that we couldn't necessarily take as a given in a world where everyone can just create things by magic.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

As it has for me, which is why I wasn't entirely sure.

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My take on it is that Amaurot seemed to be the equivalent of the "America" of the Ancient world, the discussion at the Hall of the Rhetoric over Amaurot's intervention in foreign affairs reminiscent of the debate surrounding the US' unofficial role as a "global policeman." Taking that perspective, we could infer that though they may not necessarily have held authority over neighbouring countries, Amaurot was still likely considered the most influential and powerful nation in the world (given that it was lauded as the intellectual pinnacle of civilisation, and taking into account how magic works) that was similarly looked to as a de facto leader of sorts during global events.

In the case of the volcano, I would assume they had an official stance on dealing with affairs abroad which perhaps limited intervention to incidents they felt required it (emergencies, potential threat to life, etc.) that they were expected to follow, and Azem said "no."

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

...Well, that they exist, and that vineyards and wineries are a thing. Which feels tongue-in-cheek, but that's actually helpful; the existence of vineyards and wineries confirms the existence of industries that we couldn't necessarily take as a given in a world where everyone can just create things by magic.

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Funnily enough, I don't think they actually mention anything about a winery - it's simply the logical inference where growing grapes is involved.

I do believe alcohol exists in some form in the Ancient world, though, if only because I struggle to see how Emet-Selch could have survived Hyth and Azem otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Huh, post of mine got removed. Weird. Don't even think it was particularly objectionable or controversial... and posts replying to it are still fine. Alright then. Moving on!

I think a big thing to remember about the Ancient world is that we actually have a very narrow window into it; we only see basically the capital city and the main academic/R&D center (I'm not sure exactly what Elpis' real world parallel would be; I kinda default to Oxford or MIT), and every single window into the world outside of that area is through the eyes of either an actual member of the government or an inner-city public servant. So we have very little ability to gauge what greater Ancient society was like, we just never meet someone outside that bubble. The people in the volcano story exist entirely in a faceless, voiceless abstract; all we know is that they exist, so we can read very little into their existence and worldviews from that.

...Well, that they exist, and that vineyards and wineries are a thing. Which feels tongue-in-cheek, but that's actually helpful; the existence of vineyards and wineries confirms the existence of industries that we couldn't necessarily take as a given in a world where everyone can just create things by magic.

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Don't forget about the researcher doing experiments by hand in Elpis that are on one of the far off and can't reach due to map boundaries floating islands. Where they're seen as a bunch of weirdos.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Don't forget about the researcher doing experiments by hand in Elpis that are on one of the far off and can't reach due to map boundaries floating islands. Where they're seen as a bunch of weirdos.

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...? I may have missed that!

I don't think I did finish those Elpis quests, come to think of it.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Don't forget about the researcher doing experiments by hand in Elpis that are on one of the far off and can't reach due to map boundaries floating islands. Where they're seen as a bunch of weirdos.

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Yep, seen as weird aberrations to the normal way things are done on Elpis because their methods allow for variable outcomes and mutations that the researchers weren't aiming for - the implication that these researchers are seen as purposefully using the less effective and efficient methods just to be different and that creating something that doesn't follow your plans and isn't in your control is something that can and should be avoided.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Don't forget about the researcher doing experiments by hand in Elpis that are on one of the far off and can't reach due to map boundaries floating islands. Where they're seen as a bunch of weirdos.

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Ooh, the Cthonic Horns! I loved those guys and was really hoping we might get some more content with them, since they have a whole section of the map to themselves, but alas, I guess it was not to be.

The best part about them was how snobby they were right back to the Ancients who were snobby at them. Wasn't one of them all "oh god not Azem" when you first talk to them too?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

...? I may have missed that!

I don't think I did finish those Elpis quests, come to think of it.

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They have a sightseeing log too!

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The researchers of this small facility are unlike their colleagues in that they seek to manifest new creations without the aid of creation magicks. Their natural breeding program pairs creatures with differing characteristics, relying purely on chance to conceive heretofore unimagined possibilities.

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EDIT: YEAH!!! re: Azem

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Originally Posted by Cthonic Horn

Azem? What in the blazes are you doing here? Hold on─ You seem...thinner somehow.

Hmm... You have much in common with him but it's clear you're not one of us. A familiar perhaps?

I suppose it's just like him to send one of his minions to poke its nose into our affairs. But since you're here, instead of hanging around like a bad smell, why don't you make yourself useful?

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god i love the ancients so much

EDIT II:

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Yep, seen as weird aberrations to the normal way things are done on Elpis because their methods allow for variable outcomes and mutations that the researchers weren't aiming for - the implication that these researchers are seen as purposefully using the less effective and efficient methods just to be different and that creating something that doesn't follow your plans and isn't in your control is something that can and should be avoided.

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As usual, the hard framing of the Ancients of scarily judging anyone who dares step out of line as "weird aberrations" is pretty exaggerated, if you actually look at the text, though yes, most of them can't immediately see the point of doing things this way. Considering what a (hilarious) jerk the Cthonic Horns guy is, I'd say they're pretty nice about it, all things considered, lol.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

They have a sightseeing log too!

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There's lore behind one of my favourite spots in the game?!

...I will not resub... I will not resub... I will not resub...

it was a long shot but i really wanted them to be one of the tribe quest chains or at least a custom delivery ;_;

but since they are not, consider your unsub status to be safe since you can just look up the text instead lmao?