how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Hasnt the entire MSQ been getting overhauled so there is duty support (single player) for the only defined required content in the game to progress???? When they finish that project, is ffxiv just not an mmo anymore?

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Trials still require other players, as do the mandatory CT runs.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Trials still require other players, as do the mandatory CT runs.

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IIRC, the goal of that project is to make the MSQ a single player experience. That would mean also getting the trials to have duty support too (this has already been done with one trial). Not sure how CT will go, but since its required, seems like they would make that single player too since its the goal

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The day XIV deals with bloat like WoW did is the day I stop playing XIV. Spamming the same 4 buttons repeatedly is not fun. I like button bloat.

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Seconded. The WoW prune was a very unfun era and a prime example of why devs should be very careful about what feedback they listen to.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Seconded. The WoW prune was a very unfun era and a prime example of why devs should be very careful about what feedback they listen to.

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Many people disliked it, I hated it as well because I WANT buttons but it's safe to say they reversed the change.
The only spec I can currently think of that has 4 buttons to spam for dps is a Holy Priest that religiously dodges every possibility of an extra button and even then, it's purely in terms of dps while healing generally keeps you quite busy.
The specs I played are certainly nicely "bloated".

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Many people disliked it, I hated it as well because I WANT buttons but it's safe to say they reversed the change.
The only spec I can currently think of that has 4 buttons to spam for dps is a Holy Priest that religiously dodges every possibility of an extra button and even then, it's purely in terms of dps while healing generally keeps you quite busy.
The specs I played are certainly nicely "bloated".

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Destro lock would like to say hi :D
Its 5 buttons to play in M+ and honestly surprised me, ive been playing for a week and the smaller # of buttons allowed me to learn the job(Spec/class) much more efficiently

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I never liked Diablo, I did play some of 2 & 3.
So ill base my thoughts around that specifically......Diablo is not an MMO.
MMO = MASS Multiplayer Online. You can argue that the game being online with Servers could make it an MMO, but I think an MMO is a living Social Space.
So what I mean is, like in traditional MMOS, heck even Destiny, there is a HUB with tons of players around. Or even in the Open World there are other players fighting, crafting, mining, questing ect.

Even Anthem had this, so Anthem is an MMO (If anybody ever wanted to question that)
Now again, I never liked Diablo, I didnt play much of it (i tried) so not playing Diablo IV, I dont know, does it have an active social Player hub, with other players (NOT co-oping with you/in a party) running around and socializing?

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Okay, so if I hadn't played FFXIV.. But only played FFXIII, does that mean that FFXIV isn't an MMO? Don't present ignorance as an opinion.

It's not like Diablo 1-3 with the hub and rooms. It's a fully persistent online world from start to finish. You don't have rooms like 1-3. You just exist in the open world. Players run around and do their own thing on the big NA server. They kill, gather, craft, form their own parties. But even when they form parties they don't disappear unless they do a private dungeon. It's a fully persistent MMO world. It's like if you combined all of XIV NA servers in 1, and all open world zones were seamless.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Considering the player count of classic keeps out numbering retail I'd say everyone cares about classic.

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Alright, here's the thing.. You say something crazy like that, and everything else you say after that is gonna be thrown out the window. You lost my trust immediately. lol

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The day XIV deals with bloat like WoW did is the day I stop playing XIV. Spamming the same 4 buttons repeatedly is not fun. I like button bloat.

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Better start packing your bags, because all I do is spam the same 4 buttons in XIV.

Also, even if I did have 5+ buttons to press, what difference does it make if I know the pattern will never change no matter the circumstance?
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 5, 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3~
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 5, 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3~

Oh, forgot about AoE for DPS.. 1, 3, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3~

Or.. 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3~

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I did, and its not an MMO.

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It has more online open world persistence and engagement than XIV and even other MMOs currently. If it's not an MMO then XIV isn't an MMO. Shit it even does a better job of being a Single/Multiplayer RPG too..


Always Online ✓
Persistent World ✓
Persistent Character ✓
Non-Linear Zones ✓
Random World Events/Raids ✓
Elastic Instances w/ Crossplay ✓


You see person in town? You walk out together? Same world. If don't see person because zone too hype? Party to force each other into the same instance. Just like XIV.

If you consider Lost-Ark to be an MMO, then Diablo 4 is also an MMO. (Hint: Lost Ark is an MMO)

The only difference is XIV has persistent housing. So does that mean WoW isn't an MMO?
Is it the Auction House/Board? Is that the deciding factor in being an MMO? Well then Diablo 3 was an MMO on release, but that was shit. Hrm

I don't get the feeling of XIV being an MMO when all the MMO qualities are just getting head pats in Limsa, and being constantly spammed by ERP venues, otherwise it's mostly single-player with some instances of 4-8 players. It feels more like an AOL Chatroom.

XIV is regressing in it's 'MMO' qualities, while other games are starting to outpace it this decade. Does that mean XIV is now just an MORPG?

We can stretch this thing any which way we want, in and around loops of bullshit. But in this day and age, if we hadn't known Diablo 1-3 to be just an Online ARPG, and the game we know as D4 released today as Diablo 1 - It'd be considered an MMO-ARPG.

Even old Diablo players are scared and conflicted, some of them literally don't want to believe it. I also started with D1, this shit is an MMO.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

IIRC, the goal of that project is to make the MSQ a single player experience. That would mean also getting the trials to have duty support too (this has already been done with one trial). Not sure how CT will go, but since its required, seems like they would make that single player too since its the goal

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They're currently on the fence about that if I recall, or more likely they've yet have figured out how to have AI do certain complex trial mechs without the usual overhaul of it. But for now they arent having CT and 8-Man trials be soloable for Duty Support. I hope they keep it this way, I feel like the whole idea of making the msq soloable is both good and bad since I feel they should focus on converting solo players into multi-players rather than just keep them entirely seperate but thats just me.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

The day XIV deals with bloat like WoW did is the day I stop playing XIV. Spamming the same 4 buttons repeatedly is not fun. I like button bloat.

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Wait... but I thought healers in this game were supposed to be fun, and every healer max has only 2-4 buttons that we hit for our GCDs? Even in DSR over 50% of my casts are Broil IV, Bio and Energy Drain, and if we go just by GCDs over 80% of my casts are just Broil IV and Bio? Isn't spamming the same 2 buttons repeatedly fun?

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Originally Posted by R041

Better start packing your bags, because all I do is spam the same 4 buttons in XIV.

Also, even if I did have 5+ buttons to press, what difference does it make if I know the pattern will never change no matter the circumstance?
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 5, 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3~
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 5, 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3~

Oh, forgot about AoE for DPS.. 1, 3, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3, 1, 3, 2, 3~

Or.. 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3~

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Congrats, you play healer which is a known problem with them having very little to do outside of healing. You willingly chose to play a boring role. Meanwhile, SAM opener is 27 buttons long with 15 of them being unique inputs.

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Originally Posted by R041

I
If you consider Lost-Ark to be an MMO, then Diablo 4 is also an MMO. (Hint: Lost Ark is an MMO)

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I don't consider Lost Ark to be an MMO either. Its more like an MMO-Lite, but its still not an MMO and neither is D4. It has MMO lite type features, but its still an ARPG at its core.

With that said, I'll be enjoying D4 when it comes out, but based on your other threads....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFZ8v0QljNU

Enjoy D4 and please don't come back.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I never liked Diablo, I did play some of 2 & 3.
So ill base my thoughts around that specifically......Diablo is not an MMO.
MMO = MASS Multiplayer Online. You can argue that the game being online with Servers could make it an MMO, but I think an MMO is a living Social Space.
So what I mean is, like in traditional MMOS, heck even Destiny, there is a HUB with tons of players around. Or even in the Open World there are other players fighting, crafting, mining, questing ect.

Even Anthem had this, so Anthem is an MMO (If anybody ever wanted to question that)
Now again, I never liked Diablo, I didnt play much of it (i tried) so not playing Diablo IV, I dont know, does it have an active social Player hub, with other players (NOT co-oping with you/in a party) running around and socializing?

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If Diablo 4 isnt an MMO, FF14 isnt either tbh