Is there any job that's actually happy and satisfied in EW?

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I'm mostly happy with the jobs I play. I think most complaints boil down to players too focused on DPS numbers... which is important in many facets of the game. However, there is so much focus on it, that the jobs are becoming homogenized (cookie cutter, etc). It almost reminds me of that dungeon - the first level 90 dungeon, The Dead Ends. You know the one - there's those people that finally got their utopia (the last 3rd of the dungeon) and all they wanted was the sweet release of death.

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I don’t think the jobs now being so similar helps people not focus on damage numbers. It seems like a cycle that feeds into itself. I’ve reached the point where I can’t really be bothered with alt jobs - they just don’t feel different enough, so it boils down to which has the coolest aesthetic.

right now im a very happy dragoon. i am NOT happy about the 7.0 rework though.

and whenever i do content lower than 80 im gonna change to mch or nin

Not to say there isnt room for improvement, but name an MMO where people at endgame are happy with job performance?

You basically end up with a few groups of people who become very negative either because their jobs arent powerful enough despite all being able to clear the content, and expert players who want more complexity without considering that jobs also need to be accessible to first timers. Its just the nature of the beast.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

Not to say there isnt room for improvement, but name an MMO where people at endgame are happy with job performance?

You basically end up with a few groups of people who become very negative either because their jobs arent powerful enough despite all being able to clear the content, and expert players who want more complexity without considering that jobs also need to be accessible to first timers. Its just the nature of the beast.

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I was personally very happy with PLD in SHB and DRK in HW.

Absolutely loathe most of the WAR changes, the job basically plays itself now, the Overpower nerf just nuked the last bit of soul the job had.
Enjoyed GNB though it isn't for me (to take into Savage)
DRK feels too similar to WAR, and I've never particularly liked PLD (which is fine, not everyone should enjoy playing every job. SE might wanna take a note on that)

DRG still feels fine. I do miss the tether and don't really know if removing the upkeep of the buff (and it's effect) was really a necessary thing (same deal with BLM).
MNK feels worse to me than before the rework, but that was technically still in ShB. Easier to play at a basic competency, I guess.
RPR feels kinda simplistic compared to other jobs.
No real opinion on the rest of the melee jobs.

Healer wise. Increasing the range on most every ground target skill seems a tad dubious.
AST identity got gutted for no real reason with removal of the Sects. Cards seem even more "meh" of a mechanic than before.
SCH still seems fine, wish the Faeries got some of their uniqueness back though.
SGE, still not sure how I feel about Sage. Enjoy playing it, but it does feel like just a variation on the SCH theme. Good thing I enjoy SCH, I suppose.

RDM feels worse than in ShB. DPS just isn't there, and not sure why the new AoE had to be a line (guess everyone gets to have directional AoEs, except for Warrior. Grmbl.)
BLM feels similar to before, though they got a boatload more mobility. Probably the only job whose identity is safe as long as Yoshi-P is around.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

Not to say there isnt room for improvement, but name an MMO where people at endgame are happy with job performance?

You basically end up with a few groups of people who become very negative either because their jobs arent powerful enough despite all being able to clear the content, and expert players who want more complexity without considering that jobs also need to be accessible to first timers. Its just the nature of the beast.

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You can have accessibility without making jobs incredibly basic. You accomplish this by giving them a proper ceiling, thus allowing players to improve based on the content they enjoy partaking in. Black Mage is among the very few jobs that does precisely that: relatively easy to pick up and play but requires a lot of fight knowledge and skill to play at an optimal level.

Perhaps the best example of a job having the rugged played out beneath its feet is Bard. Back in Stormblood, it was pretty simple to manage at a casual level. Keep your DoTs up and always reapply Straight Shot. Nothing too extraneous. At the higher end, you had Iron Jaws snapshotting, Foe's optimization and occasional Song manipulation all of which weren't technically required even at an Ultimate level despite it being expected from players tackling that degree of a challenge. Fast forward to day and Bard saw all of that stripped away: Straight Shot and Foe's were both axed while DoTs were bumped up to 45 seconds and were given a flat proc rate, thereby completely nullifying Iron Jaws snapshotting. Iron Jaws itself hasn't seen any potency increases, further weakening its impact. DoTs on the whole virtually no interaction with the job now and seem poised to die in 7.0

In other words, all of Bard's nuance was gutted because some players whined and the devs disliked they couldn't be bothered to keep up Straight Shot in content where it didn't even matter to begin with.

These changes weren't for accessibility. They were to coddle bad players. Not even necessarily casual players. Just bad ones who can't be bothered to learn yet don't want to feel inferior despite that ruining everyone else's gameplay. The irony is Bard was the most popular DPS in Stormblood. It catered to being the least played Prange throughout all of Shadowbringers and only made a brief recovery in Endwalker because Dancer sucked. Now Bard is still among the most punishing jobs to play but without any reward. You spam Burst Shot incessantly, do paltry damage and god help you if the boss decides to jump because manipulating your songs now at 45 seconds absolutely sucks.

A lack of player honesty in providing feedback is a recurrent problem in all this.

Everyone wants to wrangle out the biggest advantages for their jobs, and nobody seems to want an level playing field in which they can compete in on equal terms. But everyone knows that they can't simply demand an obviously unfair advantage upfront. So this manifests as 'my job should do damage because it's harder to play than the others' and 'my job should do more damage because it has less utility than the other jobs'. And then players are surprised when their jobs are reworked to make them 'more accessible'. Who asked for all these simplifications? You all did. Here, on the forums. You all thought that the dev team would be impressed at your superior skill to everyone else when you went on and on for months about job difficulty and thought they would bestow you with a dps advantage to give you a free ticket into PF groups. They interpreted it as a complaint that the job was too hard to play.

Monkey's paw, friends. If people could simply keep their silence when their job is in a relatively good place (no, a hundred dps is absolutely not worth fighting tooth and claw over, you can easily overcome that just by being a higher percentile player), or focus on cool ideas to expand on the job in the next expansion, then we'd see a lot less of this nonsense. Has BLM ever been reworked? I think there's less threads about them than anyone else. The job slowly expands on its rotation each expansion, rather than smashing everything to bits every few patches. That's what we all should be aiming for.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

So this manifests as 'my job should do damage because it's harder to play than the others' and 'my job should do more damage because it has less utility than the other jobs'.

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I think most people want PLD to have the most utility and mitigation thus lowest damage because of it, my self included.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

I think most people want PLD to have the most utility and mitigation thus lowest damage because of it, my self included.

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I also have no issue with warrior doing lower dps, even if I think the selfheal is severely overrated in a raid setting. My main complaints about the job are that it is absolutely idiot proof and therefore incredibly boring.
...I say it's idiot proof but despite SE's best attempts you still have people completely mess it up because no amount of simplification can fix players who aren't even trying.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I also have no issue with warrior doing lower dps, even if I think the selfheal is severely overrated in a raid setting.

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I do. I believe WAR is thematically at its core identity meant to be the high DPS low utility/healing tank. PLD is meant to be the exact opposite.