Can we talk about the Yoshi P double standard and bias here?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

You going 90s with that.


On another note.



Is it truly right to balance something based on amount of people who play. Also win percentage seems a little suspect as well considering your groups are formed randomly. Wouldn't first a discussion and play guide to see if players are actually playing the rotation to get max out of job first. Also if most people prefer X style of play the amount of BLM will be lower. If I always play tank or healer and that means BLM out of all the dps is lowest represented since it shares a pool with more seems silly to me.



I am not saying buff wasn't needed. The reasons just seem wrong. Also I don't mind the extra damage. It does feel like with BLMs the CC has gotten even worse. Is that possible?

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It isn't really a good reason because the job might just be unappealing for the rest of the playerbase. But still have a fairly decent winrate. It's not a good metric on its own.

It's the reason Aurelion Sol from League of Legends sucks. Because it's got a really low win rate and is overly complicated, alienating people. But because a pair of stooges make him look good in tournaments, he's constantly getting nerfed.

Then again, them saying this after the community kept telling Hrothgar players they wouldn't get any attention for being 2% of the total playerbase is hilarious. Because by Square Enix's metric, then they're aware of what content is at a lower end and they strive to fix it >w>

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Originally Posted by SpartanPawnch

With that in mind, I think it's unreasonable to expect YoshiP to play every single job - the man is busy enough as is. What we need instead is quality control for a given job to be done by people who are actually competent at it.

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I think people would generally agree with that - rather, the expectation is to have members of the game's dev team who are responsible for and knowledgeable about a role or, even better, a job. I believe their job design team is fairly small. Many would generally prefer that he did less micromanagement of so many areas of the game, and put in place a competent and appropriately staffed team to rely on for that.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

You going 90s with that.


On another note.



Is it truly right to balance something based on amount of people who play. Also win percentage seems a little suspect as well considering your groups are formed randomly. Wouldn't first a discussion and play guide to see if players are actually playing the rotation to get max out of job first. Also if most people prefer X style of play the amount of BLM will be lower. If I always play tank or healer and that means BLM out of all the dps is lowest represented since it shares a pool with more seems silly to me.



I am not saying buff wasn't needed. The reasons just seem wrong. Also I don't mind the extra damage. It does feel like with BLMs the CC has gotten even worse. Is that possible?

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I'm struggling to understand how they thought these buffs made sense - the job needed some modest ones, but I am not entirely sure I buy his excuse that they were just relying on incomplete metrics from before 7 May. By all indications, they seem to realise now it wasn't properly playtested, but even on paper, the changes being implemented raised eyebrows. The metrics he mentions are the sort that I would think logical to identify an area of potential concern, but only as a first step. I just hope they're going to take a proper holistic look at the job balance now and come out with something better.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I agree to some point. They addressed the issue people were the "loudest" about.

But I also agree that this was the perfect opportunity to share the data that they're looking at, explaining what other jobs are under performing or being used less frequently. Hell, if they're worried about people jumping the meta (even though people who would care about the meta know what jobs to play) or people building expectations for buffs, they could even have anonymized the job names to show the overall spread and where BLM was compared to all of the other jobs so that information is useful.

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Seconded. I understand there's reasons for it, but he goes from citing the data pre-7 May to a "trust me bruh" basis for his comments. A more cynical interpretation is he doesn't want to admit that they buffed it impulsively and wrongly.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

The 14% lower winrate on old BLM was due to many players thinking a 3k DOT is better than chain stunning enemies over and over again :p

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Do you mean binding?

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Originally Posted by SpartanPawnch

While I find the "go play ultimate" quote to be very concerning, I think the fact that YoshiP only plays BLM is not the real issue, as he isn't in charge of job design. The actual problem is the fact that some of the people in charge of job design do not seem to play the stuff they are adjusting in any meaningful capacity.

The only reason BLM is well-maintained is that YoshiP personally evaluates it as an experienced player of the job rather than a clueless designer. Since he is the game's director, he obviously would let BLM changes go through if he is firmly against them.

With that in mind, I think it's unreasonable to expect YoshiP to play every single job - the man is busy enough as is. What we need instead is quality control for a given job to be done by people who are actually competent at it.

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Right he’s just so busy that he’s able to run pvp the past few days for hours on end…. Maybe then he shouldn’t have taken up ff16 if he truly was so busy with 14 still? Also he is a part of the play testing team, it’s why he made the comment of they had to replace the old healer on the play test team because he was “too good.” Meanwhile it’s okay for yoshi p to be on the team as a blm…okay lmao. Sorry but i’m not going to sympathize for the person who continues to lie and tries garner sympathy by fake crying on stream. Also….i can throw his ultimate comment right back at him. Well Yoshi P if blm sucks to play in pvp go play Ultimate, it’s much more engaging there. :p

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Originally Posted by SpartanPawnch

While I find the "go play ultimate" quote to be very concerning, I think the fact that YoshiP only plays BLM is not the real issue, as he isn't in charge of job design. The actual problem is the fact that some of the people in charge of job design do not seem to play the stuff they are adjusting in any meaningful capacity.

The only reason BLM is well-maintained is that YoshiP personally evaluates it as an experienced player of the job rather than a clueless designer. Since he is the game's director, he obviously would let BLM changes go through if he is firmly against them.

With that in mind, I think it's unreasonable to expect YoshiP to play every single job - the man is busy enough as is. What we need instead is quality control for a given job to be done by people who are actually competent at it.

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I think this is the most reasonable take, there should be a more compentent balance team, its why I say its good there's a bias atleast for one job rather than none.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

I think this is the most reasonable take, there should be a more compentent balance team, its why I say its good there's a bias atleast for one job rather than none.

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I mentioned it earlier, but I think that they need to have people dedicated to different jobs/roles instead of a team full of people with general knowledge.

Underneath the Job Design Lead should be Tank Design Lead, Healer Design Lead, Caster Design Lead, Ranged Design Lead, and Melee Design lead. Those people's jobs should be fighting for what the players want. I don't think that the balance team is incompetent at all, I just think that it's too much to expect a generalized team to keep 19 different jobs balanced together, unique, AND fulfilling. They need to start getting people in there that are much more focused on a smaller number of jobs. Hell, 1 Design Lead per job would be ideal, but at the very least the design leads should focus on roles.

It has a 17% winrate it needs the buffs. Done. There's no bias. It's just standard PVP balancing. Your victories shouldn't be determined by who plays the most broken job. It should be determined by who has the better knowledge of the job. If someone who is, very experienced with BLM goes into pvp and realizes 'Wow, this sucks. why did they do this?' And realises, 'Wait, I can give feedback' like, everybody else in the game would, and likely has, then yeah. BLM deserved these buffs. Frankly, I think this whole discussion wouldn't be around if the winrates for each class were public, like on a leaderboard of sorts on the Lodestone or something like that

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Do you mean binding?

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Freeze, heavy and half-sleep/sleep aren't binds :p Binds are ones that stop you from movement and movement related abilities but let you cast/attack freely

It would probably be more beneficial to have a team in charge of job design comprised of individuals with a wide range of experience as opposed to having YoshiP personally oversee job changes. However, the situation now is that it's 4 people + him with the final power to say ok or to veto changes. With this in mind logic follows that he is partially responsible for some of the recent blunders in job design.

In the grand scheme of things I can forgive him for wanting to devote the necessary time to FFXVI - the mainline Final Fantasy brand has suffered enough stains to its reputation due to internal mismanagement and for all FFXIV's faults at least we still get expansions that can be considered complete products. The same cannot be said for how FFXV felt to play at launch. However, if you're going to do this then it would be more sensible to offload some other responsibilities to people with the relevant experience.

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Originally Posted by Karowolus

It has a 17% winrate it needs the buffs. Done. There's no bias. It's just standard PVP balancing. Your victories shouldn't be determined by who plays the most broken job. It should be determined by who has the better knowledge of the job. If someone who is, very experienced with BLM goes into pvp and realizes 'Wow, this sucks. why did they do this?' And realises, 'Wait, I can give feedback' like, everybody else in the game would, and likely has, then yeah. BLM deserved these buffs. Frankly, I think this whole discussion wouldn't be around if the winrates for each class were public, like on a leaderboard of sorts on the Lodestone or something like that

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Except as many people have stated, it’s the fact it’s over buffed and it’s the fact it got immediately changed. Whereas problems like healers for the past 6+ years have gotten little to no attention. That is blatantly bias.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

Freeze, heavy and half-sleep/sleep aren't binds :p Binds are ones that stop you from movement and movement related abilities but let you cast/attack freely

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Right but the figures we're talking about are from up to 6 May, and you were talking about fire vs ice pre-6.11a. Deep Freeze under Superflare quite literally is a bind. Half-asleep did nothing but create a window to remove the sleep effect. The slow was added recently. The only thing out of these which can reasonably be taken as a "stun" is the sleep effect. You're not wrong about the freeze stuff generally being superior, but it's not chain stunning.