Is bard in a bad spot right now?

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Damn shame they destroyed summoner in the process. I'd rather that not happen to bard as well.

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Thank you for sharing that you do not understand the thematic point of being a summoner or a bard without directly saying so. A summoner should summon things. A bard should play music. It's pretty clear to me and many others who were/are actively turned off by the bizareness of these jobs in the context of the series in Summoner's case and the fact that most people who play rpgs, when they think "Bard" they think=music. Not mystic ranger.

In fact, if Bard were to receive a rework that brings it back in line with the focus being on music, it will probably receive just as much praise as the Summoner rework. In terms of gameplay, they need to have support skills that feel impactful and are based off music. No new arrow skills. If they get any new attacks, they should be based off music in some way, as damage-dealing songs have existed in the series in the past.

As for those who like the ranger aspect, the best thing would be to make a class dedicated to that. A crossbow, setting traps, using poisonous arrows, etc to hunt animals. That would be really cool and I support that. However that aesthetic and more "selfish" feel of gameplay should not be mixed in with Bard, a support class. The devs need to take what works well on Dancer and give some of that to Bard.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Regarding the “it took 8 years to get a proper summoner” argument. I doubt SMN will have as much praise as its hype gives it. It’s shallowness has been well documented and is a hot topic right now since they didn’t even try to meld the two aspects together and just seems like Ruin spamming not summoning, with yet again the only 2 summons with even less control. It’s praised mostly due to it being pretty, with very very few topics about the kit at hand and if it’s about it it’s usually how straight forward and toothless it is.

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I love how critical you are of the summoner rework for being depthless and having 0 skill expression in its abilities but when it comes to bard you just don't see it or "won't judge yet".

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Originally Posted by Jirah

First sentence I don’t even know what your complaining about with OGCDs, as all jobs have them. Like saying “MCH doesn’t have machines it has OGCDS!” Well yea duh…

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You know what my goddamn point is. You know how tertiary bard's so called songs are in its kit. You could delete them and fold their effects into bard's kit and not a single thing would change about the core of the kit. You used to actually play the songs! With actual music! And their effects were tangible! Watching your team's MP and TP tick up during a downtime phase was so satisfying as bard because you knew that it was YOU doing that! Bard in HW and StB, while flawed in some ways, both embodied the identity of a combat singer far more fluidly than bard now.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Which normally I agree with when talking to BRD mains…but theirs a very distinct difference between them and you

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Because other bard mains probably sugarcoat their words and I don't. If I think something is lazy/garbage/poorly done, I'm gonna say it with my whole chest.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I won’t judge Radiant Finale until launch and I’ve seen lazier skills tbh, but it’s more flexible than divination which doesn’t even exist anymore and can be said is a “lazy rehash of <insert Generic buff skills with 120 seconds here> skill”

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That's the thing. There is no flexibility. There will be 1 valid way to use it and no others, and it provides no utility beyond its damage buff.

In short for all the Future bards readings this, DPS shouldn’t be a relative concern even in high ends fights. Only the knowledge of the fight and mastery of your rotation. So far no job is such deadweight to be exiled from groups and even then the expansion is so close it shouldn’t even be a point of interest

The rotation itself is a slog in the Beginning but gets a lot better and is abit of a late bloomer similar to BLM.

Don’t let others paint your opinions, this thread has a lot of negativity, some debatable some exaggerated some justified and others just incomprehensible. And due to the community how it is being a echo chamber of hyperbole, it’s not as good ,bad, boring or fun as people may seem.Play it yourself and gather your own thoughts, it’s not in a bad spot. All jobs are valid

Bard plays music about as much as Dancer dances.
I am once again confused the issue at hand.

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Originally Posted by Easayia

This is the issue with your guys mind set Bard is a hybrid of both an archer and a Bard. It sings songs to Buff the party and does damage with the bow. What SE has created in terms of this hybrid is very well designed in the way that it flows. Everyone complaining it should be just the Bard Part and not the archer part are basically asking for a new class entirely. The problem is there is no pure support Role in FF XIV its divided into Tank, DPS, Healer there is no specific role called support. Bard is a DPS and in order to do damage instead of a mage that plays song they opted for an archer hybrid that plays songs.

1. This isnt Bard from FF11

2. This is a hybrid song and Archer job

This is what SE chose to make the job for FFXIV many love it some would rather it be a mage music job instead but its not so you people need to move on from that already......

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You're ignoring proportionality. Hybrids can be 50%/50%, 99%/1%, 1%/99%, or any value in-between. The current BRD devotes the vast majority of its thought and actions to arrow pewpewing, not managing buffs or debuffs. I don't choose songs to buff the party, they're a proscribed rotation. Right now I have three "buff someone" buttons to manage, on 180s, 120s, and 90s cooldowns. And two of those are both situational and low-impact.

To think of one minor modification, what if each of our three songs was cast on a party member instead of a target? So for example Mage's Ballad would give that party member 5% extra damage and the party 1%, Army's Paeon say 15% GCD reduction / 3% direct hit, and Wanderer's Minuet 5% crit / 2% crit. Then I would have to decide which party members were the best fit for each buff and actively assign them, instead of mindlessly firing songs at the target as part of my rotation.

To expand on this further, you could even help the bard thematically by reskinning and renaming skills. What if Caustic Bite and Stormbite were DoT songs instead of arrow skills? What if Apex Arrow was a particularly powerful song instead of...another arrow? Etc.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

A summoner should summon things. A bard should play music.

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Here's the problem.

Many people, especially among bard players, have wanted a "ranger" class since the game's inception.

But SE/the game do not serve this class fantasy. Thus, bard is as close as they can get. And as a thus to that thus, the bard playerbase is divided on what they want out of the job.

And then this expac just compounded this with practical issues: Machinist is the better raw damage dealer, Dancer is the better buffer. So... what even is bard supposed to be? Even if SE doubles down on buffs, it's either going to be better or worse than dancer, leaving either bard or dancer in an awkward spot.

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Originally Posted by Easayia

This is what SE chose to make the job for FFXIV many love it some would rather it be a mage music job instead but its not so you people need to move on from that already......

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Is this why Bard went from the most popular DPS in Stormblood to the second least? The issue several current and former Bard players have is the job is Bard in name only. Nearly everything revolves around it's Archer/Ranger identity nowadays since they've slowly removed buff and debuff management. Song buffs are neither interesting nor engaging as they literally change nothing about your rotation. The Song Gauge is by far the most tacked on addition, having no actual use outside of Apex Arrow. Which, itself, is an incredibly boring ability that replaces Burst Show every 2ish minutes.

Bard was a hybrid. Now it's mostly a Ranger with some songs slapped on.

its not like SE is going in the right direction with the "archery side" of bard....adding a skill after apex is as boring as its get, the dmg buff is like a tap on the head...

where is my Eagle Eye Shot ? the ST version of apex...a huge ST that puts big numbers ,oh wait Brd cant have big st numbers anymore. Sidewinder used to hit hard ....hell EA/refugelnt used to hit hard too..

change bard weapon to a pillow....lol

removing the dots and put that dmg on shots or hell on party support , let bard hear is own songs will be cool too.

Bard has always been a ranged DPS with some songs slapped on. You can tell they're slapped on because one of the songs cancels when there are two Bards in a party.

The Fantasy some people appear to be looking for is Minstrel, a class that used song to heal in LOTRO and Atlantica Online. It is actually called Bard in Dark Age of Camelot. In Ultima Online, Bard is definitely not related to Archery (as one build suggests, [cheap] daggers are easier to skill up than archery).

It is true that the lowering buffs have made it less popular, but I believe that the new class for Shadowbringers, Dancer, was simpler to play, with very few downsides [hint: DoTs] that need to be refreshed. It was also 'more exciting' in the face of the brand new expansion.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Is this why Bard went from the most popular DPS in Stormblood to the second least? The issue several current and former Bard players have is the job is Bard in name only. Nearly everything revolves around it's Archer/Ranger identity nowadays since they've slowly removed buff and debuff management. Song buffs are neither interesting nor engaging as they literally change nothing about your rotation. The Song Gauge is by far the most tacked on addition, having no actual use outside of Apex Arrow. Which, itself, is an incredibly boring ability that replaces Burst Show every 2ish minutes.

Bard was a hybrid. Now it's mostly a Ranger with some songs slapped on.

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Quick Look in its job history in ff14 (which for the 80th time should only be compared to its past and not it’s iteration in Ff11 or other games where at most it just did one Dot or induced a ailment like in Ff4/5 and a few side games) and most of its past has always been archery even in ARR with people asking for flaming arrow and Wide volley back. BRD was never 50/50 in any of its incarnations it’s main offensive attacks always leaned on your arrows not your songs which were support and effected your other attacks.

The bigger focus should be to say, what defines a great interactive support job in the current game? And I’ll tell you right now DNC isn’t a standard all should follow as every critique can be made to it aswell with all the buffs not really being notable and automatic to its own DPS rather than something reactive like Chain stratagem. The games changed from the removal of TP, enmity, MP skills, and even class integration. I won’t disagree that BRD could use a enhancement and would love to hear suggestions, but it’s not all BRD fault and doesn’t dilute the job in full