Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

I remember that Yoshi.P promise to implement Addons at the 2.0, we have never heard about it then. I think people were waiting on thoses for too long...

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

I remember that Yoshi.P promise to implement Addons at the 2.0, we have never heard about it then. I think people were waiting on thoses for too long...

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They also promised more egi glams lol, some promises don't hold much weight.

The line is already drawn. They are not allowed, full stop. SE just isn't willing to invest money into fighting the issue yet. About the time people start making them required for parties and negatively affecting the community, then SE might start stomping on toes.

Basically it boils down to which arms war SE wants to fight. The one with Third Party making the game trivial so they have to buff up encounters like WoW dose, or the one where they are playing whack a mole with the flavor of the month add-on.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Callouts is fine imo, it doesn't hurt anyone. Some people might need that guidance for whatever reason. Automarkers is bit much, agreed.

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My feeling on Cactbot's callouts is that they ought to be a sanity-check on your own read of mechanics. But that's my feeling on a static's raid-caller calling mechanics too; there's nothing wrong with it, it helps folks be organized, but you ought to be reading the mechanics yourself regardless. If you can't do a fight without Cactbot callouts, that's a problem. I'm just not sure it's a bigger problem -- or, for that matter, a fundamentally different problem -- than if you can't do the fight if your static's raid-caller has to miss a week or has laryngitis.

(Mind you, Cactbot is admittedly less likely to make the occasional incorrect call than, say, me. As I've remarked in these threads before: sure, I said "west", but I meant your other west. You know, what's it called... right, "east", yeah, that's the one.)

As soon as you have triggers that are dropping markers on people or doing anything in an automated manner, though, that's well beyond what even the best human raid-caller can do. I feel like that stuff's really far less okay. As an engineer, I know there's not a lot they can do to stop it which wouldn't cause other -- probably far, far larger -- problems, especially not without investing a lot of time and energy into things. (Preventing mob markers from being set in-combat would prevent that, for instance, but it would also prevent anyone from clicking a button to put a 'Target to attack #1' marker over someone's head in PvP, or to note to first-timers that this is the moogle add you need to take down now in Thornmarch, or whatever else. Which arguably would be more detrimental to the game than the current use of automated triggers is.)

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

If people can't help themselves from using add-ons they aren't supposed to, maybe the community need to turn the World First race into two categories. World First (mods, add-ons) and World First (No mods/add-ons).

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No world first team plays without addons for long (until tools update) and there is no significant interest in having a no-addon WF category, so nobody does it. You also can't enforce it, because hiding the addons from stream is trivial.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I don't mind if people are using it, but I have seen raid leaders making the addons mandatory for joining the group.

I remember back in Wow, this started small and then it became a mandatory or else you would not be invited.

I don't want this to happen to Final Fantasy XIV.

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Pretty sure it falls under alot of their same feelings with damage meters.

https://i.imgur.com/KfZ8mmn.png

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

My feeling on Cactbot's callouts is that they ought to be a sanity-check on your own read of mechanics. But that's my feeling on a static's raid-caller calling mechanics too; there's nothing wrong with it, it helps folks be organized, but you ought to be reading the mechanics yourself regardless. If you can't do a fight without Cactbot callouts, that's a problem. I'm just not sure it's a bigger problem -- or, for that matter, a fundamentally different problem -- than if you can't do the fight if your static's raid-caller has to miss a week or has laryngitis.

(Mind you, Cactbot is admittedly less likely to make the occasional incorrect call than, say, me. As I've remarked in these threads before: sure, I said "west", but I meant your other west. You know, what's it called... right, "east", yeah, that's the one.)

As soon as you have triggers that are dropping markers on people or doing anything in an automated manner, though, that's well beyond what even the best human raid-caller can do. I feel like that stuff's really far less okay. As an engineer, I know there's not a lot they can do to stop it which wouldn't cause other -- probably far, far larger -- problems, especially not without investing a lot of time and energy into things. (Preventing mob markers from being set in-combat would prevent that, for instance, but it would also prevent anyone from clicking a button to put a 'Target to attack #1' marker over someone's head in PvP, or to note to first-timers that this is the moogle add you need to take down now in Thornmarch, or whatever else. Which arguably would be more detrimental to the game than the current use of automated triggers is.)

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Yep, absolutely.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

My feeling on Cactbot's callouts is that they ought to be a sanity-check on your own read of mechanics. But that's my feeling on a static's raid-caller calling mechanics too; there's nothing wrong with it, it helps folks be organized, but you ought to be reading the mechanics yourself regardless. If you can't do a fight without Cactbot callouts, that's a problem. I'm just not sure it's a bigger problem -- or, for that matter, a fundamentally different problem -- than if you can't do the fight if your static's raid-caller has to miss a week or has laryngitis.

(Mind you, Cactbot is admittedly less likely to make the occasional incorrect call than, say, me. As I've remarked in these threads before: sure, I said "west", but I meant your other west. You know, what's it called... right, "east", yeah, that's the one.)

As soon as you have triggers that are dropping markers on people or doing anything in an automated manner, though, that's well beyond what even the best human raid-caller can do. I feel like that stuff's really far less okay. As an engineer, I know there's not a lot they can do to stop it which wouldn't cause other -- probably far, far larger -- problems, especially not without investing a lot of time and energy into things. (Preventing mob markers from being set in-combat would prevent that, for instance, but it would also prevent anyone from clicking a button to put a 'Target to attack #1' marker over someone's head in PvP, or to note to first-timers that this is the moogle add you need to take down now in Thornmarch, or whatever else. Which arguably would be more detrimental to the game than the current use of automated triggers is.)

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If they could implement a legit caller, it could help them into making fight harder.
To be honest, this is a game where you can take away from the game from some time, and once you come back, you get to forget everything. This tools can be use as a reminder.
There's to much mechanic in this game... for a new tank, for exemple, it can be hard to keep up with strategy.

Also, you can't have eyes on everything, i remember Twintania, when you had to pack up, but was unable to see who has the Greenish marker, someone in the raid was using ACT to get a bip to announce that you have to run.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

If people can't help themselves from using add-ons they aren't supposed to, maybe the community need to turn the World First race into two categories. World First (mods, add-ons) and World First (No mods/add-ons).

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Pretty much my thoughts on this. Every team trying for World First should be willing to declare exactly which tools they are going to use to the organizer (Frosty, generally) and he can include that in the team listing. They wouldn't even need to separate categories; just have the tools and modifications listed right next to the team name. If the team is willing to put a tool or mod next to their name and still compete then fine, and if a viewer wants to consider that a valid clear then fine. No fuss, no muss. But if they're not willing to put a mod or tool next to their name then that's basically an admission that they are at the least not proud of their achievement.

If you want to juice to win the home run title then you can't complain if you end up with an asterisk next to your name in the record book.

Here's a friendly reminder that SE sowed the seeds for all of this when they built an end game rigidly focused around tight DPS but failed to provide even the most basic of tools for players to actually get some kind of an accurate gauge on how well they were doing relative to their peers and other classes.

I raid with timeline post it notes stuck to my screen during prog. If a turn is particularly stubborn we'll also have someone call important mechanics on TS. The auto callout stuff is the same with less effort IMHO.