Does FF14 have a button bloat problem?

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I really wish they would condense the 123 buttons that don't actually have any branching options, something like monk's combos you can't condense into a single button, but with GNB's continuation or MCH's 123 combos I don't see a point to keeping it 3 buttons when literally nothing about the class would change except a few hotbar slots are freed

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You absolutely CAN condense monks into a single button (2 sets), especially if you switch Snap Punch and Demolish's positional requirement.

They have a flank rotation to buff - can easily be a 123 set. Demolished changed from Rear > Flank.

They have a rear rotation to damage, can easily be a 123 set. Snap Punch changed from Flank > Rear. Rear rotation is done twice for every flank rotation and the buff timers line up perfectly.

Flank to buff > Rear x2 > Repeat.

6 buttons condensed to 2.

Same with their AoE rotation. Can easily be a single button, especially in Endwalker when 4 Point Fury will generate the Twin Snakes Buff.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

You absolutely CAN condense monks into a single button (2 sets), especially if you switch Snap Punch and Demolish's positional requirement.

They have a flank rotation to buff - can easily be a 123 set. Demolished changed from Rear > Flank.

They have a rear rotation to damage, can easily be a 123 set. Snap Punch changed from Flank > Rear. Rear rotation is done twice for every flank rotation and the buff timers line up perfectly.

Flank to buff > Rear x2 > Repeat.

6 buttons condensed to 2.

Same with their AoE rotation. Can easily be a single button, especially in Endwalker when 4 Point Fury will generate the Twin Snakes Buff.

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You completely glossed over that you HAVE TO alternate Dragon Kick and Bootshine every cycle because DK gives Leaden Bootshine which is one of your biggest source of damage.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

You completely glossed over that you HAVE TO alternate Dragon Kick and Bootshine every cycle because DK gives Leaden Bootshine which is one of your biggest source of damage.

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Alternative, then: simply have a Rear, Flank, and AoE option for each GCD. In Opo-opo, those would be BS, DK, and AotD (upgraded come EW), respectively. In Raptor, True, Twin, and FPF. In Coeurl, Demo, SP, and RB. Simple.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

You completely glossed over that you HAVE TO alternate Dragon Kick and Bootshine every cycle because DK gives Leaden Bootshine which is one of your biggest source of damage.

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First of all, you don't HAVE to. Bootshine is going to crit regardless as long as you're at the rear. Leaden just boosts it, there's also the opportunity costs of going the lower dps buffing route again vs just doing 2 rear combos.

Hell, the majority of their damage is coming from Perfect Balance/ Brotherhood / Riddle of Fire windows where you're alternating them anyway.

It's almost like things could be tweaked a bit.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

First of all, you don't HAVE to. Bootshine is going to crit regardless as long as you're at the rear. Leaden just boosts it, there's also the opportunity costs of going the lower dps buffing route again vs just doing 2 rear combos.

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No, you are obliged to make use of the mechanic.

Now, could that mechanic as easily be handled as by a simple Bootshine upgrades to Dragon Kick which, after granting Leaden Fist, then upgrades again to Leaden Fist (as a skill), reducing button count while changing absolutely nothing about how MNK plays? Sadly, yes.

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It's almost like things could be tweaked a bit.

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That said, if even the rare case scenarios by which to see nuance from MNK, of all jobs, has to be trimmed to make something work in terms of button-mapping, that should be a huge red flag and we should promptly go in the opposite direction (to make that available nuance real, rather than feigned or excessively shallow -- and thereby bloat).

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It only worked in WoW (sometimes) because players could try new things in the PTR and write up the next Definitive Guide to Playing X months before the expansion comes out.

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Given that competitive PvE content was likewise delayed there, the PTR was by no means a requirement for specs/jobs/classes to have more than the barest difficulty...

Given, also, that the way each spec played was also far more fight-dependent, as WoW raid encounters are generally far more varied in how they ought to be approached than are XIV's, precise generalist advice was also far less relevant once one progressed to the level content in which that degree of knowledge would particularly matter.

I think some forms of button float wouldn't be a big deal if it were not for the fact of positionals which can be extremely annoying in some battles.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

I think some forms of button float wouldn't be a big deal if it were not for the fact of positionals which can be extremely annoying in some battles.

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How does the button bloat affect that, though?

On M&KB, unless you've bound mod key forms of your movement keys (WASD), hitting even a fairly complex keybind will not stop you from moving simultaneously (and, if you have done that to your movement keys... don't, at least on any job with positionals).

On Controller, the issue is a bit more prevalent, but can still be mitigated heavily by simply placing what keys you'd need to use while repositioning across from your movement stick, such that you can use both at once, or by using a claw grip (as any console FPS player would likely already have defaulted to).

Foul's soon-to-be level 80 Endwalker trait and Xenoglossy go brrrrr.

NIN gained some bloat this time around I have 24 (!) regularly used buttons, and Endwalker removes two, adds 4. I'm going to have a hard time fitting the new ones into my layouts. I try to keep my keypad and screen layout as similar as possible, with is is now, except with the ones from the WASD rows on the keypad combined into one row on the screen to avoid a 5th row.

https://i.imgur.com/oLTgrNjl.jpg

My WoW shaman gets the job done with about 12 buttons.