SE are leaving BLM to rot by giving SMN and RDM even more utility

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Nobody wants to be a prog only job. Homogenizing caster raise is the next step to finely balance casters so all casters are just as equally useful in prog and out.

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1) Prog is what matters for game balance, not speedruns. Literally no game balances or should balance around parse runs. This is actually not relevant to the majority of players, even the majority of Savage raiders.

2) RDM (and SMN) still bring a cushion of safety on farms and weekly clears, which is what a lot of players spend a lot of their time doing in this game.

This may not be as valuable to players that only do content with their static, but once you take a single step outside that echochamber, RDM and SMN value increases significantly, even in content that you have on farm.

I suppose that Black Mage would need a different kind of raise, such as one that's on a cooldown, since they can recover their entire MP extremely quickly while in Blizzard mode, but it's still something that Square Enix should consider for the sake of fairness across caster jobs; Black Mage is still the only one of seven (soon to be eight) Disciple of Magic jobs that has zero raising options.

Only raise Black Mage should get if any is where they can only raise themselves. In Final Fantasy Black Mage has never had any ability to raise/resurrect since they have always been about pure damage.

The only way Black Mages could raise was by using Phoenix Downs. Which you can't do in the MMO.

Summoner shouldn't have a raise either but they are stuck with it because of the Arcanist/Scholar curse.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Only raise Black Mage should get if any is where they can only raise themselves. In Final Fantasy Black Mage has never had any ability to raise/resurrect since they have always been about pure damage.

The only way Black Mages could raise was by using Phoenix Downs. Which you can't do in the MMO.

Summoner shouldn't have a raise either but they are stuck with it because of the Arcanist/Scholar curse.

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We don't have to strictly adhere to the rules of other Final Fantasy games; I think it's totally fine for Black Mage and Summoner to both be able to raise.

I think it's cool that RDM has a raise. It doesn't really make sense that SMN has a raise and I'd prefer they didn't just for abstract job identity stuff.

I think it would be good for all casters to be able to help out with raises and prog in some way, and the way I'd bring that about is by bringing back Manashift as a role action or maybe even as an exclusive BLM ability. Of course, you'd need to specify that it only works on healers or other casters.

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I think it's cool that RDM has a raise. It doesn't really make sense that SMN has a raise and I'd prefer they didn't just for abstract job identity stuff.

I think it would be good for all casters to be able to help out with raises and prog in some way, and the way I'd bring that about is by bringing back Manashift as a role action or maybe even as an exclusive BLM ability. Of course, you'd need to specify that it only works on healers or other casters.

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*sad Paladin/Dark Knight noises*

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Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I think it's cool that RDM has a raise. It doesn't really make sense that SMN has a raise and I'd prefer they didn't just for abstract job identity stuff.

I think it would be good for all casters to be able to help out with raises and prog in some way, and the way I'd bring that about is by bringing back Manashift as a role action or maybe even as an exclusive BLM ability. Of course, you'd need to specify that it only works on healers or other casters.

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I do not agree for the remove of summoner's rez, the fact that he has phoenix can justify the fact that he can rez,
especially since currently if you remove the summoner's one, it will cause balancing problems, why would he have to play the summoner if the red mage has a better kit?
and why play the summoner if the blm has a lot more damage?
if you remove the summoner's resurection the dps should be as close as possible to what the black mage is doing a few% behind, otherwise he will be excluded from the meta, and from the prog.
Because apart from searing light which is nice, all the rest of its support is situational and overall much lower than what the endwalker red mage does.

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

1) Prog is what matters for game balance, not speedruns. Literally no game balances or should balance around parse runs. This is actually not relevant to the majority of players, even the majority of Savage raiders.

2) RDM (and SMN) still bring a cushion of safety on farms and weekly clears, which is what a lot of players spend a lot of their time doing in this game.

This may not be as valuable to players that only do content with their static, but once you take a single step outside that echochamber, RDM and SMN value increases significantly, even in content that you have on farm.

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Can't believe people are arguing about whether DPS job with benefits to prog, because they can save wipes, is or is not much of a benefit. Ofc it's a big benefit, no brainer!

Literally why bring a BLM if you had a choice?

SMN & RDM both do like 95% of the dps, with a big safety net for the group. I mean do people ever join a group and go "wow, we have a BLM on our team!"..

It's not so much a BLM issue either, since other DPS jobs don't bring such powerful utility like SMN/RDM, but at least they got nice raid buffs.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Can't believe people are arguing about whether DPS job with benefits to prog, because they can save wipes, is or is not much of a benefit. Ofc it's a big benefit, no brainer!

Literally why bring a BLM if you had a choice?

SMN & RDM both do like 95% of the dps, with a big safety net for the group. I mean do people ever join a group and go "wow, we have a BLM on our team!"..

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If no one is dead, the ability to raise provides zero benefit.

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Originally Posted by remiff

I do not agree for the remove of summoner's rez, the fact that he has phoenix can justify the fact that he can rez,
especially since currently if you remove the summoner's one, it will cause balancing problems, why would he have to play the summoner if the red mage has a better kit?
and why play the summoner if the blm has a lot more damage?
if you remove the summoner's resurection the dps should be as close as possible to what the dark mage is doing a few% behind, otherwise he will be excluded from the meta, and from the prog.
Because apart from searing light which is nice, all the rest of its support is situational and overall much lower than what the endwalker red mage does.

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That's a good point about Phoenix. It would probably make the most sense for SMN to learn Resurrection only at level 72+, but it's not crazy that they have it.

One way to nerf Summoner rez could be to make it only available during Phoenix phase, or even consume a phase-specific resource you'd otherwise use to attack with. Separately, you could make Verraise cost white mana or otherwise set the RDM rotation back more substantially than just by a GCD or two. But I guess that doesn't solve the issue of BLM not having any prog-friendly mechanics of its own, which I don't think should include a raise but could easily be something like an enhanced Addle, Manashift returned to it, or something else along those lines.

We shouldn't discount that doing the most damage is itself prog-friendly since it helps with any mid-fight dps checks, tough adds, etc.