Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Come to think of it, level sync on DRK might be the most unfun thing in the game to date. The fun gets sucked right out.

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It is and it does. I'd go even further and say that, aside from completing your aoe combo 32 levels after all other tanks, there's nothing added in 70-80 that makes the Job look fun enough to bother leveling. I will be keeping it at 70 for a long time, I'd wager.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

playing a different tank is the only thing you should do to show SE your dislike. they run statistics on everything. and if the overall number of tank players stays consistent while the number of drk players goes down SE will know something is off and might actually do something.

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AFAIK, DRK was the least played job in SB, based on the number of logs uploaded to FFLogs. So, by that logic 5.0 DRK is a result of that, and the change to WAR in 4.2 making it have more damage and better party synergy compared to DRK.

Looking at FFLogs for current Savage and EX trials, it's WAR that's being shunned more by the playerbase, so them only referring to WAR with the live letter QnA makes sense. The gap from WAR to DRK (3rd most) in Savage is greater by far than the difference in uploaded parses comparing DRK to GNB (2nd most parses).
EX trials fares the same with WAR being further behind DRK than with how DRK trails behind the number of PLD (which has for EX trials the 2nd most uploaded).

damnit, DRK really that bad?

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Originally Posted by hatefury

damnit, DRK really that bad?

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Not on the whole, no. It doesn't have the top damage at present, but it certainly has top miti and maybe even rDPS (healer GCDs saved + pDPS), and at the best responsiveness, too. It's strong and fluid.

It's just that many of us wish there was a bit more, in part because it feels like it still has so much untapped potential. We could doubtless give the same criticism of PLD, WAR, and GNB, but, apart from perhaps WAR, none of those jobs has seen more interesting days. DRK's history, especially when pointing out the best of each iteration, makes it see disproportionately more criticism than it would otherwise warrant.

If you're planning to level it from the start, though... I might suggest one of the other tanks. Pre-70, or at least pre-64, DRK feels... really empty. Not that much worse than the rest, but enough to be noticeable, especially over the HW span.

I heavly disagree with the original post! By far DRK is the least squashed tank right now period. Ask any healer in endgame content and dungeon and they will tell you DRK requires way less healing. A squishy tank is a tank that needs to be healed consistently and DRK isn't that. Second I do kinda agree with TBN being adjusted, I think the way they visioned the move as a counter attack cool down but with it costing the same as using edge or flood It doesnt become rewarding. I say they just make it cheaper to use TBN which I know they need to be careful with that since if they make TBN too cheap or free it will make DRK simply OP since TBN In my opinion is the strongest cool down for the tanks. DPS the tanks are extremely balanced I mean it's hard for me as a DRK main to ask for more DPS I think maybe a tweak to WAR and DRK would be good. For DRK maybe make blood weapon increase damage 10% on top of darkside or make darkside do 20% increase in damage would be solid. I don't think potencies need to be adjusted much if at all since DRK has about 3 burst windows( delirum, blood weapon, and living shadow). Last the argument for delirum I think is great with DRK I don't care much for the HW iteration nor SB. This version by far is better and this is in my opinion. I believe there is a reason they did this to DRK cough cough WAR rework incoming (my guess). I personally think WAR is simply boring.

Last to be honest I really don't get this 123 combo conversation if you play all the tanks in endgame content I play DRK and GNB personally. It's all the same 123 combo as the base Rotation. I don't understand how DRK is so different besides it blantly saying it's just 123. When actually playing DRK not just looking at the job guide DRK is very flexible rotation tank. There can be many combinations of 12453 with weaves of bloodspiller and edge/flood and carve and spit I mean there is much more. If your playing DRK and mindlessly just doing 123 then one your simply arnt playing the job right. When I raid with DRK besides my opener I'm rarely just doing 123.

I would say one thiing I am pissed with SE is that GNB is a HW drk clone camouflage and Sonic break is basically dark dance and scourge... Now I care little.for dark dance since lore wise it makes more sense on a GNB. But Sonic break is the scourge DRK should have never lost. It's one of the reasons I hated stormblood DRK and liked HW drk even though it was a very clunky version. Scourge was a solid move and makes more sense on DRK then GNB.

Regarding squish

Thank TBN, but it's turned DRK into a one trick pony with a case of function =/= fun after the rest of the class was gutted. The numbers are the best hand down for raid mitigation against large hits. But this veers right into my personal pet peeve of how 5% of the content tries to balance the other 95% It feels at points that the "hardcore" raiders have way more of a voice than casuals, and yes to me that is a problem.

That and it doesn't change the fact TBN has gone from a high risk high reward power (blood gauge for that free quietus to get your mp back after using AD and DA to keep yourself up in large pulls) to a neutral at best and dps loss at worst power costing far more resource now then previously, and it's mitigation is either an overcap if trash mobs can't break it via good gear or other sources, or a may as well not bother since you can just edge or flood off the bat, get your dps boost, and have healers do this crazy thing called heal. almost like it's their role or something instead of jumping on the dps bandwagon like everything else. [/sarcasm]

If a healer likes DRK because the shield gives them more time to dps (answers i've heard elsewhere to this) then that right there should be the red flag that something's gone amiss in core game/role design.

regarding the 123

A GNB has a multitude of options after, danger zone and burst strike. Gnashing fang combo if not on CD. Weaving in the dots and lunges.

DRK has edge or flood, with the occasional carve and spit. End of list. Delirium doesn't count because if you aren't doing five BS during it you're not *spit* "optimizing your DPS" since thats all the rage these days *waves to the new AST balance bots*

God what I wouldn't give for the old version and to have blood price back while we're on the topic of risk vs reward. That or drop this wanna be warrior crap and give us a blood weapon extend so we can actually get a decent mp regen window.

And from my own practice DRK at best can get seven 3000 mp spenders out burning BW and Delirium before being tapped assuming a spender after every 123. GNB get it for free and are only limited by cooldowns. GNB's two step aoe also gets them more oomph with a charge over the paltry 600 mp and 20 blood stalwart soul gives, blood being frankly useless now with quietus having it's mp regen nerfed into oblivion while BS is is the same as ever, a little extra dps now and again, whoopie... And GNB needs a lot less levels to do it on top of all of that.

So no, DRK is not in a good place right now, unless you enjoy being a TBN bot for savage content all day while waiting for your GCDs to come back up, since virtually every other power now is removed, on an absurdly long cooldown (hi new AD) or just useless from the nerfs.

1. Leave TBN alone.

2. Do... *something* with Living Dead. At this point I'm not sure if I'd even care what it would be.Thematically it's great and I'd love to keep the zombiemode intact but requiring both to receive 100 % HP heals, losing the beneficial side of the status when the previous happens and gd outright dying if you don't get those 100 % heals is just so wrong. On top of all that it's a can't die ability instead of invulnerability so unless you get Bene'd up in 1 cast, you're not even guaranteed to be at full health when it goes away.

3. Blood Weapon needs to last 11 seconds. I've understood other abilities such as Delirium actually do. On top of lasting for less BW doesn't give it's benefit upon pressing the button but once the skill hits which takes a split second more (and I guess is skill dependant too?). Giving it an unlisted extra second would fix the ability being very flimsy and SkS / ping dependant on getting most out of it.

4. Would love it if some of the more underwhelming abilities got a bit of a facelift even if it was more on the fluff side of things.
Why does Abyssal Drain heal have to be worthless against single targets?
Delirium, while not underwhelming is boring. I'm not expecting the ability to change during ShB but could we at least get more mana out of it? It would be a slight DPS boost while giving the job a slight nudge into more active button pressing by making the next EoS happen a bit faster.
Could we get like even 5 % physical mitigation on Dark Mind so it wouldn't be absolutely worthless against enemies that are not doing magical damage? I think this is the cooldown all you TBN haters should be complaining about.

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

I would say one thiing I am pissed with SE is that GNB is a HW drk clone camouflage and Sonic break is basically dark dance and scourge... Now I care little.for dark dance since lore wise it makes more sense on a GNB. But Sonic break is the scourge DRK should have never lost. It's one of the reasons I hated stormblood DRK and liked HW drk even though it was a very clunky version. Scourge was a solid move and makes more sense on DRK then GNB.

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Maybe in 6.0 we'll get scourge back. I would gladly exchange salted earth for it. I miss that lightsaber sound. It does make me salty using sonic break on GNB though.

I feel like DRK is in a good place right now, but that's generally only at 70+, when we have TBN. DRK's defensive options until then are extremely lacking. Dark Mind is really bad, Living Dead is situational, at best, so that leaves DRK with only Rampart and Shadow Wall until TBN is gained. TBN itself feels like a double-edged sword. It's shield is massive allowing you to absorb almost anything, but if it doesn't break, then the MP was mostly wasted. Then it also has the problem of being a centralized part of DRK's cooldown cycle that everything else defensively is lacking. Things I want to see:

A mini TBN before 70, learned really early, that has many of the same effects but only shielding for 5-10% of max HP. This way, we still have the functional benefits of TBN even at lower levels. Additionally, TBN's shield effect gets dropped to 15% of max HP because 25% is just too good and leaving the rest of the defensive kit lacking. Blood Price could be this mini shield.

The return of Dark Dance/Anticipation and roll it into Dark Mind. This way, you get a Physical Defense buff, and a Magic Defense buff, but weaker overall than Rampart/Camouflage. Gives DRK another button to hit in lower level dungeons/pulls that aren't -sigh- Arm's Length (don't get me wrong, the change is great, the cooldown is just massive, and I still feel like I need another defensive to hit).

Similarly, I wish Abyssal Drain was made the combo branch off of Unleash which then upgrades to Stalwart Soul, or at least maybe give it an MP regen on top of the HP recovery. Maybe make it an alternate AoE MP spender, not unlike Flood of Darkness/Shadow, where you gain HP instead of Darkside. It does basically the same thing, but sometimes that HP regen is more important than the damage refresh.

I realize I'm not a lv80 DRK, so I may not have room to talk, but these areas are where I feel DRK lacks the largest. DRK just feels really bad without TBN, and it doesn't feel that much better without Stalwart Soul.