O5N is unfair for pure healer

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Originally Posted by Fayo

Jump potion boys <3! then after that you just use your chocobro

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Honestly if you are just a frustrated jumper, it's worth explaining the FFXIV treats its healers as what most MMO's consider "support" classes.

The questlines also deal in this. The CNJ/WHM questline opens with a girl that is constantly putting herself in danger by healing and only healing, and white magic is so devestatingly powerful it's a closely guarded secret.

SCH starts off as a DPS job, but converts the pet into a healer/supporter and adds a variety of mitigation heals to it's pool of damaging skills.

AST is all about buffs. In fact, I think if a more "pure" healer experience is your desire, this is your best job, as the card system is designed to build up allies along side your heals, and AST DPS is the lowest.

Also, Mind, Determination, Direct Hit and Crit also apply to DPS skills. You can't build a non DPS capable healer.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

How is it not relevant? The Conjurer story continually says Conjurers use elemental powers because that's their job. I don't think it's coincidence that every elemental skill (except the water one) is an offensive one, especially given that Sylphie continually points out that she doesn't want to do anything except heal.

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Sylphie used her own life force to heal the others, which in result would've gotten her killed sooner or later, like how it happened to her mother. Through some chain of events because of the death, sylphie denied using the powers of the elements at all. Even water. Basically, it was a type of Cast from Hit Points she performed.

She got better in the end, though.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Are we talking about the game wher, there are wet noodle tanks, who have also no idea about the CD's or never use the tanks stance, there are dps that does not dodge aoe's for the sake of casting spell, for low levels the healers job is not a simple task, even sastasha gives a pressure, since tanks there are soft and pulling 2 groups is like playing a roulette.
Not to mention the "pro super i will carry" tanks that pull entire dungeon level and go with offensive stance for the fastest run, sure there healer doesnt have to cast anything 100% of time right.

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I have healed almost every single content in this game since 1.0 (only current patch, Coil Savage and Ultimate excluded) and I have never ever met a tank so bad I would have not had any time to DPS. Of course there are situations which require a lot of healing, but looking at standard runs rather than exceptions, it is clear healers should have plenty of time to DPS in all content.

I don't know if you've played healer in this content yourself, but in many low level dungeons you don't really need to cast many heals at all during pulls. In Sastasha you mentioned as an example, I once watched my partner heal it in full-time cleric stance (pre-SB) using nothing but Essential Dignity. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...es/biggrin.png

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Originally Posted by Fayo

I think you're confusing me with someone else to be honest ^__^

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You only swapped your forum's character to an alt in Gilgamesh. I stand by what I just said.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I have healed almost every single content in this game since 1.0 (only current patch, Coil Savage and Ultimate excluded) and I have never ever met a tank so bad I would have not had any time to DPS. Of course there are situations which require a lot of healing, but looking at standard runs rather than exceptions, it is clear healers should have plenty of time to DPS in all content.

I don't know if you've played healer in this content yourself, but in many low level dungeons you don't really need to cast many heals at all during pulls. In Sastasha you mentioned as an example, I once watched my partner heal it in full-time cleric stance (pre-SB) using nothing but Essential Dignity. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...es/biggrin.png

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It's usually groups that make that happen for me and generally in the 24 man's. There's been a number of Rabanasty runs where I barely had time to get my full suite of dots situated before someone else died to an insta-death mechanic or stood in the stupid. It's why I generally prefer running those things with a co-healer I trust because between the two of us we both have time to DPS /while/ fixing all the dumpster fires. The alliance raids are about the only content where I can consistently say that I never expect to get a steady amount of DPS off, but then again that's unsurprising given how many people go into them and expect to be carried.

That said I agree in that I can't really think of a single instance where I queue'd with just a tank that was so terribly bad that I had no time to switch in DPS when I was able. About the only instances I can even remotely compare was running some of the SB dungeons at level before the SCH nerfs were sorted out and all the WARs running around had yet to get used to their class changes - and even then it was only one or two runs of Ala Mhigo and Doma oddly enough that had such instances. Once everything settled down however it's never happened again.

Also I weep for pre-SB Cleric's Stance... I miss it so. :<

White magic have both restorative and damaging spells, so I expect a decent Acolyte of white magic using both.

"pure healers" are just halfway their path to master their magick.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

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While I understand your point - and agree with you - I'd say that the community here will not listen a word. To them, healers are a DPS class who heals, more like a RDM with better heals. And no one will listen or even change their behaviour towards any situation that lightly resembles a healer not doing any damage. It is futile to try, since they wrote this rule on the stone and disobey it is a glaring sin that should be punished with death.

And the most baffling is when they overestimate the damage done by a healer or underestimate how bad can be a DF party. It is more likely they're now DPS who never healed a DF party since the 1st Umbral Era and never were on a bad party or think that people standing on the bad is just a legend.

Don't waste your time trying to discuss with people who just impose their dogma. I tried and right now I'm burned to the point of thinking on quit healing. Don't do it with yourself.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

And the most baffling is when they overestimate the damage done by a healer or underestimate how bad can be a DF party. It is more likely they're now DPS who never healed a DF party since the 1st Umbral Era and never were on a bad party or think that people standing on the bad is just a legend.

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I can let you know right now that I do all my DF content as a healer, most often solo queueing and rarely queueing with a DPS buddy, and my views are based on this extensive experience of actually healing a lot of different random groups in all levels of content. And, like I said, I've never had a group in which I haven't had a chance to DPS at all.

I would be very interested in seeing someone post logs or video evidence from a run where DPSing as a healer would be literally impossible or at least close to it. My mind is far from being set in stone, as I'm more than willing to change my stance if I see evidence proving me wrong. :)

Edit: I should add, in case it isn't clear to everyone, that there's a difference in content being possible to DPS in, and DPS being a reasonable expectation from the healer in that situation. For example, a while ago I was leveling my DRK and ended up in Library hard with a newbie healer who was not able to survive the wall boss. If the healer would have handled the boss mechanics and the basics of their job, they would have been able to DPS quite a lot. But since they didn't handle either, it would have been an unreasonable expectation from them, and I did not even encourage them to try DPSing, but instead tried to cheer them on and help them handle the mechanics. In the end I ended up soloing about 30% (I think, not entirely sure) of the boss on our third try (since the healer always died and no other party members had self heals), but I know the healer still tried their best. So saying healers generally have room for DPS in standard situations in all content does not mean that all healers should be expected to DPS (at least a lot) in all content in every situation.

We've had conversations in other threads on the very subject of why the devs expect healer and tank DPS to be minimal, yet the damage output of the actual damage dealing focussed jobs isn't "good enough" for most content.

These conversations always end up going in circles, (Why is WAR so attack focussed? Why are heals tuned so high?) and the last one deteriorated as it included extremely parse happy players, which is a ToS violation and implied toxicity magnet.

My thoughts are more that the devs abhor the speedrunning meta of the game, and since Stormblood, they have been actively working to break the community of it. It's not working. Simultaneously, they want us to use our whole skillset.

So, who knows.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

We've had conversations in other threads on the very subject of why the devs expect healer and tank DPS to be minimal, yet the damage output of the actual damage dealing focussed jobs isn't "good enough" for most content.

These conversations always end up going in circles, (Why is WAR so attack focussed? Why are heals tuned so high?) and the last one deteriorated as it included extremely parse happy players, which is a ToS violation and implied toxicity magnet.

My thoughts are more that the devs abhor the speedrunning meta of the game, and since Stormblood, they have been actively working to break the community of it. It's not working. Simultaneously, they want us to use our whole skillset.

So, who knows.

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Basically this. I hate the design of this game but have pretty much consigned myself to it because the developers have constantly conflicting philosophies and don't seem inclined to do the major balance tuning necessary to pivot towards their declared stance ("tank/healer DPS isn't necessary"). Like, show me at even full BiS 340 groups that could clear Deltascape Savage without healer DPS? LOL. At this point, if you're coming into this game expecting to do any heavy lifting wrt healing you're in for disappointment. If you're the sort who uses phrases like "healbot" or "whack-a-mole" to describe your healing experience in other games you'll probably love this one. That's all there really is to it.