DPS frustration

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

"No job is easier than another" is innacurate, or at the very least unproveable. my own experience shows I can tank and do decent dps (for a tank) far more easily while holding aggro and not dying. This would indicate tanking is easier. It might not explain the large number of awful tanks however.

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Different skill sets for different jobs. A job being difficult is dependent on one's wanted playstyle and capabilities of performing the best actions.

For example, you called BLM rotation complex, but I find it simple, even easier though now that enochian isn't on a long cooldown. At the same time, I play RDM more poorly, despite being better geared than my RDM, making me do less dps. I found RDM complex to me, even though others would say it's simple.

So plug that in here. Is a job that performs lots of damage at the punishment of cast times your preferred style? If not, it might not be for you.

Also, last note, I do more than 3k dps with the level 50 rotation. Is this a gear issue? I haven't read past this, so apologies if it was stated.

Echoing Jijifli, this false equivalency of jobs being unquestionably easier than others verses being case by case, just look at the players who main tanks. They find it easy, but it absolutely requires a different skill set from DPS, particularly with being the party's lead player. Getting past the whole "everyone is watching me" is much easier for certain people.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Echoing Jijifli, this false equivalency of jobs being unquestionably easier than others verses being case by case, just look at the players who main tanks. They find it easy, but it absolutely requires a different skill set from DPS, particularly with being the party's lead player. Getting past the whole "everyone is watching me" is much easier for certain people.

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Echoing this. For a DPS main, healing and tanking looks extremely difficult due to the perceptions of the extra responsibility compared to DPS, plus if you mess up, it's a heck of a lot easier to notice you're messing up. However, people like me thrive upon that pressure, and makes it easier for us. Difficulty is a very subjective thing. To counter those DPS mains who find DPS easy as pie, I find DPS very difficult. I'm used to the heavy responsibilities associated with being tank or healer, take that pressure away from me and I start to crumble because of my psyche.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

feelings

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OP has cleared V1, V2 back in august, to do savage you need minimun Ilvl of 320 to even do V2, go logic.

he's definetly not a fresh 70 (tank) neither I'm trying to "hurt his feelings" I gave constructive criticism not insults. OP is missinformed in what each class are capable of doing and what's the current acceptable dps, mch and bard do not struggle to hover over 3k I don't know where you are getting this from. and If you are talking about his BLM Op is comparing both of his classes dps wise without any more context so I assume they will be around the same gear and we are also talking about BLM, bard mch I will understand but BLM is just as powerful as samurai even at fresh 70 if you are barely doing over 3k you are still not doing the optimal rotation (on a dummy). This threat is about dps numbers as that's the main topic OP brough in his first post if numbers are offensive to you don't keep reading for your own convinience.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Doing DPS is never the tank's primary job and a tank shouldn't be expected to do as much as a dps.

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I did state that holding aggro, staying alive through the usage of defensive cooldowns and doing mechanics is the bare minimum for a tank (in my opinion). Good tanks can do that while also put out good dps numbers. It's the same argument for healers. Their job is to keep everyone alive, that's the bare minimum which is fine in regular contents but in end-game, you are expected to contribute to dpsing with the exception of being relatively new to the content.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

I cant even access FFlogs and honestly dont care about it and dont think its good for the community. Parsing should be for personal improvement only.

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Which is what a lot of people use FFlogs for. If someone were to try and achieve those good DPS numbers, what better way than to look at what the top players are doing. What their skill usage is. Some people may have used FFlogs are a medium to ridicule people for putting up "mediocre" numbers but that depends on the person.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

If 5k is "good" for a dps

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That 5k DPS number you're using is probably someone who is i340 or close to i340. Even then not a lot of people can do 5k.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Stop trying to make people feel bad by comparing them to i340 top end double weaving OGCD DPS and such.

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First off, OP brought up DPS numbers.
Second, OP mentioned in page 3 that their Warrior is dealing close to 3k (which if it's true, it's generally people who are over i330. Even then there's no real way of telling that the "3k DPS" isn't some made up number without logs/parses. Judging by their fflogs, it's about half of 3k)

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Difficulty is a very subjective thing.

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I wouldn't call it "very" subjective.

There are certainly different skillsets at play, such as how many things on your screen you can keep track of, how many skills in a chain you can memorize, how far into the future you can project your actions, how fast you can react to things etc. Brains don't all work alike in that regard. And all of those skills are needed on all of the jobs, some simply require a bit more of one, where another requires more of another.

As an objective measure of difficulty, there's complexity, because the more complex a job (or role) is, the more of any or all of the above skills you will need to succeed. It is simply rationally undeniable that keeping track of two things at a time is harder than keeping track of one thing and that reacting to things fast is harder than reacting to them more slowly. You might as well argue that one litre of water contains more water than two litres of water.

That said, do not mistake stress for difficulty. Difficulty often induces stress, but that doesn't mean the two can be equated. You can get very stressed while being taken through a rollercoaster, but that doesn't make riding a rollercoaster hard - you don't even do anything, you're passively strapped to a seat. Having the heck scared out of you by a spider has no difficulty associated with it either. On the flipside, you can rack your brain in a very difficult puzzle feeling relaxed, rather than stressed. And what people commonly associate with the tank or healer role is not difficulty, it's stress.

I have trouble recording the game on my machine which is why I don't have videos to show.

Also my 2.7k with warrior is with item level 320ish.

to be fair I might do more than 3k dps with the level 50 black mage rotation considering the level 50 rotation is just so much easier to do correctly.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

to be fair I might do more than 3k dps with the level 50 black mage rotation considering the level 50 rotation is just so much easier to do correctly.

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No. Just, no. You're not going to get more than 3k dps. You know what you'll get? Kicked from the Ex trial party.

Being a decent DPS isn't hard. You just have to actually apply yourself like tanks and healers apply themselves to juggle survival and pushing their own damage.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

to be fair I might do more than 3k dps with the level 50 black mage rotation considering the level 50 rotation is just so much easier to do correctly.

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I mentioned that I could because you had to be doing something wrong. You shouldn't be doing the 50 rotation unless you messed Enochian up so badly that you have no choice. If you can do Fire IV's, you should be doing Fire IV's.