About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

Actually AST didn't have access to Virus/Eye for an Eye at all before. CNJ/THM was it so pretty much, CS/Prot/Swift/Stoneskin then Surecast or Blizzard 2 on opinion/level... Eithervway you took it to have 5/5 not cause you needed either.

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AST had Disable, which was just their variation on Virus. Don't forget about it! ...Well, ok, it's gone in SB, so I guess we can forget about it. >_>;

Also that party-wide Esuna that was mentioned is on a 60 seconds cooldown. You cannot rely on it to always be available when needed, especially if you prefer to have Selene on Sic for Fey Wind spamming.

On another note, I just noticed that in Stormblood the White Mage spells Cure and Cure II are getting their potencies buffed, Cure will now have a 450 Cure Potency (Up from 400) and Cure II will now have a 700 Cure Potency (Up from 650) while Astrologian Benefic is remaining at 400 Cure Potency and Benefic II is remaining at 650 Cure Potency.....umm.....HAHAHA what? I hope the 15% healing buff from Diurnal and Nocturnal will raise that up to be on par with Cure and Cure II otherwise that is just uncool, White Mages already had ridiculously good healing to begin with and if what Ive seen in the released videos is any indication White Mages will have far better damage output (Yes I know, Healers are not DPSers by nature but still).

I mean, I main as a White Mage and an Astrologian, love both classes pretty much equally, but this buff to Cure and Cure II is admittedly unwanted unless Astrologian is getting Benefic and Benefic II potency buffs as well.

Addendum: I certainly hope that everything we've seen in the vids released thus far, is not how it will be.

Anything that's currently esunable is also avoidable, and barring that there are many, many ways to cleanse debuffs, even some available regardless of class/job. I still haven't sweated it because frankly, Esuna was always one of the more useless skills in my eyes. Ironically, I actually forgot that was a skill I had by default on my healers, just due to how little it actually matters.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Anything that's currently esunable is also avoidable, and barring that there are many, many ways to cleanse debuffs, even some available regardless of class/job. I still haven't sweated it because frankly, Esuna was always one of the more useless skills in my eyes. Ironically, I actually forgot that was a skill I had by default on my healers, just due to how little it actually matters.

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Lots of bosses put removable debuffs on random people. Two in particular that come to mind are the last boss of Fractal Continuum and the first boss of Dun Scaith. The first can knock the party off the platform if not cleansed, the second is a doom effect.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Anything that's currently esunable is also avoidable.

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Uh. No. I can think of a few bosses that cast devices that are either required to remove or removing them makes the fight easier. Sastasha Hard, Hullbreaker Isle Hard, Wander's Palace Hard, and Fractal Continuum are some examples of places that have at least one boss that esuna is useful or required.

There are other ways to have conditions removed than esuna.

Who won't take swiftcast? Protect? E4E? CS? Largesse? CS? Lucid Dreaming? They could just as easily build that into each class, rename it, etc.

Oh no! It looks like I can't take all those skills at the time. Guess I've got a.choice to make depending on the encounter. Let's be honest, this is a huge step up from the cross class system. Role skill choice actually mean something. If you personally feel like you must have esuna all the time, by all means take it.

Every class already had Esuna analogues. WHM and AST already had their Lucid Dreaming analogues (and SCH has, and retains, MP regain on Aetherflow & Energy Drain). Protect is so critical it might as well be baked into every healer's kit anyway.

Cross role actions should be stuff that expands your options, but won't break your run if you don't have them like not having those skills will if you go in blind. Things like Rescue, Surecast, and new Cleric Stance are all perfect examples.

Removing critical skills like Esuna to cross role adds pointless burden of knowledge (on top of the burden of knowledge for which debuffs in particular are cleansable).

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

(on top of the burden of knowledge for which debuffs in particular are cleansable).

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Well that at least has been fixed, removable debuffs will now be marked.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Oh no! It looks like I can't take all those skills at the time. Guess I've got a.choice to make depending on the encounter. Let's be honest, this is a huge step up from the cross class system. Role skill choice actually mean something. If you personally feel like you must have esuna all the time, by all means take it.

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It's a huge step down. I would rather have my choice be what abilities to use in a fight, not what I bring to the fight. Planning for a duty isn't fun, and there aren't really options, you'll have your priority list of the 7 or 8 useful skills so you know exactly what you're going to take every time you don't need esuna and the other healer takes protect.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

AST had Disable, which was just their variation on Virus. Don't forget about it! ...Well, ok, it's gone in SB, so I guess we can forget about it. >_>;

Also that party-wide Esuna that was mentioned is on a 60 seconds cooldown. You cannot rely on it to always be available when needed, especially if you prefer to have Selene on Sic for Fey Wind spamming.

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Party wide Esuna is on Selene, shares CD with Eos + Healing recieved buff. Always forget about disable... Pretty much only use it for tank busters and raid wide AoE, i think it was given to tanks, which is a better spot for it.

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

Every class already had Esuna analogues. WHM and AST already had their Lucid Dreaming analogues (and SCH has, and retains, MP regain on Aetherflow & Energy Drain). Protect is so critical it might as well be baked into every healer's kit anyway.

Cross role actions should be stuff that expands your options, but won't break your run if you don't have them like not having those skills will if you go in blind. Things like Rescue, Surecast, and new Cleric Stance are all perfect examples.

Removing critical skills like Esuna to cross role adds pointless burden of knowledge (on top of the burden of knowledge for which debuffs in particular are cleansable).

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Keep in mind Aetherflows MP recovery was cut in half last time we saw it. I also get a nudging suspicion that they are working towards elimination of classes in general. And there is a precendent for similar things having been done before. EQ2 did it at one point to knock out the first 3 stages of character identity pretty far unto its life cycle, wanna say 2 expansions in or so that hit. Also pretty sure there was some minor comment in one of Yoshi's recent interviews that mention "while still gaving classes" if anyone remembers seeing it, link if you would. Either way the going in blind/PUG setup for us is pretty simple. Protect/Esuna/Swiftcast/Eye for an Eye/Lucid Dreaming, after that its a matter of ditching what you dont need.