Liquid Flame is an example of how overly easy things are.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Honestly, it doesn't even have to be hard - just engaging and interesting.

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An encounter can't be engaging if you can ignore the mechanics regardless of gear level. It's possible to have easy mechanics that are punishing none-the-less like Megadeath.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I still stand by the notion that pharos sirius was never too hard, it was just avoided because it was much harder than the alternatives, so nobody bothered running it, and this would create the same problem.

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There was also the problem where better gear actually caused all but the 3rd boss fight to become harder due to hp% based phases overlapping and overwhelming groups with adds even when mechanics were performed as intended. Gear made the other dungeons easier but it made Pharos Sirius harder.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

An encounter can't be engaging if you can ignore the mechanics regardless of gear level. It's possible to have easy mechanics that are punishing none-the-less like Megadeath.

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I guess, I was agreeing with you. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, there needs to be more punishment for ignoring things. Weeping City may be a bit too far, as it's good if a group can more easily recover as well.

I think the difficulty level of dungeons at Amdapor Hard, Wandering Palace Hard and Keeper of the Lake was pretty good. It wasn't hard by any means, but it was engaging. Ignoring the bombs or placing them improperly on the first boss of Keeper of the Lake meant death.

I disagree with you there. Keeper of the lake was even easier than the current expert roulette at release. Same goes for the other two dungeons you mentioned. First boss of Keeper could be very easily ignored. Literally all Jr took to handle it was a Cos or an overpower and that mechanic was pretty safely handled. Even in the rare event one of the larger bombs was set off, it was easy for an attentive healer to heal through or mitigate the damage. The second boss was a snore, and the last boss didn't have any mechanics besides the dps check bird.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I disagree with you there. Keeper of the lake was even easier than the current expert roulette at release. Same goes for the other two dungeons you mentioned. First boss of Keeper could be very easily ignored. Literally all Jr took to handle it was a Cos or an overpower and that mechanic was pretty safely handled. Even in the rare event one of the larger bombs was set off, it was easy for an attentive healer to heal through or mitigate the damage. The second boss was a snore, and the last boss didn't have any mechanics besides the dps check bird.

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This is just patently false. The healing requirements for spam pulls were much higher, and the mechanics were much more punishing. The current expert at release, you could spam pull and Eos could solo heal it.

If the large bomb went off, on release, you died. As we geared up, you could out heal it, but it wasn't til quite late into the patch that it was easy to do so. Conversely, every mechanic in the new dungeons you can ignore 100% and people will not even drop to 50% hp.

The last boss had more mechanics than the last boss of Xelphatol. In both situations, you just dodge AoE's (which was way harder in KoL than Xelphatol) and in KoL you also had to DPS down the bird and activate the shield and get in it.

What healers were you playing with? I went in on the first day with my scholar that I hardly used and had no difficulties surviving two large bombs back to back, and I never even mained it, and spam pulls were being done of those dungeons since day one as well. In addition, the only hard part of the last boss was the dps check. All of his AoE are pathetically easy to dodge so long as you watch your positioning. Literally all you had to do as a ranged dps was stand to the side near the middle, and you could dodge literally every AoE without moving, except for the occasional blue AoE on the side you chose to park at. Seriously. It took me maybe half a run before I noticed that the edges are nearly untouched. The only one that had to pay attention was the tank, and that was only because standing on the wrong side with the wrong dragon lowered dps.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

What healers were you playing with? I went in on the first day with my scholar that I hardly used and had no difficulties surviving two large bombs back to back, and I never even mained it, and spam pulls were being done of those dungeons since day one as well. In addition, the only hard part of the last boss was the dps check. All of his AoE are pathetically easy to dodge so long as you watch your positioning. Literally all you had to do as a ranged dps was stand to the side near the middle, and you could dodge literally every AoE without moving, except for the occasional blue AoE on the side you chose to park at.

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Either you are lying, or you are misremembering.

Anyway, I don't care to argue. It's not like the dev team has shown any sign of interest in actually improving the dungeon experience in the game.

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Originally Posted by Yudzster

ramp up the difficulty, people will complain

ease the difficulty, people will complain

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The problem is the scale of difficulty between Expert/mini raid to savage/Ex primals is still big. There is nothing that really fills that in between content to prepare players for savage etc. I also would of preferred it if they never nerfed savage and actually created mid core content to fill the gap.

I know some will disagree but I just dont think it scales up smoothly through the difficulties.

So many asked for another tier of difficulty for dungeons, while SE is already struggling with pushing out the current content and the 8-man raid only have 2 tier of difficulty. While i do hope for a real difficult dungeon, i don't think we will see it soon, at least not before they handed us another difficulty tier for 8-man raid. The next PotD, on other hand, could be developed to fill that niche though.

You can't have higher difficulty in dungeons unless you're willing to accept SE taking stricter measures to stop speedrunners (something I wouldn't be sorry to see play out at long last). That would start with harder hitting lower-tier enemies that even the most decked-out tanks would need to respect and not pretend to be Superman. Secondly, there would need to be traps equivalent to PotD in each dungeon to make groups really think about pulling whole rooms (Let's see how bada$$ a tank is after tripping a Toading trap with 10 enemies in tow. If I'm the healer of that group, I'd be wishing for a "sipping tea" emote right there). Thirdly, there have to be Zelda-like puzzles that must be completed to open doors or reveal keys. These three elements would certainly make dungeons more challenging and expose the blusterers who talk crazy about XIV being "too easy".