Sorry to say. But when groups break up just that fast, then there is something else wrong, but not the challange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alym
One important point of raiding is patience.
Just a "wall" didn't broke up serious groups in coil.
The issue on Faust is more that these groups have no experience on raiding in early days with low gear and don't have the patience to get better. ADS in T1 was similar to Faust in early days with nothing else than Darklight gear.
Yes. A3 is a jump. But in my view, its the first floor where progression feels like coil within the first month before gearing out.
Its not the challange that broke the most groups. Maybe one or two month after Void Arc, if they are still struggeling at the same boss and have maxed out thier gear without success in progress. But not so fast like now. The reasons are different. And for the most of the players I've talked to, the way they implented the normal mode was their reason to stop raiding at all.
Also in my own group, a guy that regular skip cutscenes in most quest did say last evening, Alex is boring in his eyes, because it was always fun to work torwards to see the next cutscene and to reveal which boss is the next one. All this is gone with Alex normal. Everything was known on day one, because Alex normal is required for unlocking savage and gear progression.
My thinking about Alex normal/savage. Issue IMHO inside
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10-05-2015, 05:38 PMKarstenS
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10-05-2015, 07:30 PMLaraulAlex normal and Alex Savage are no different then the hard mode and extreme mode trials. You have to do the hard mode ones first to unlock the extreme mode versions, just like you do need to beat Alex Normal for Alex Savage. Yet no one is asking SE to remove the Hard Mode versions. So why are people asking to remove normal Alexander?Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
I personally barely bother with the normal Alexander and personally have no desire to bother w/ Savage because I don't have the time. So I personally haven't experienced the savage versions myself, so it might be inappropriate for me to comment on the Savage version of Alex. But from everything I read, it sounds like people are experiencing general burn-out. Part of this may be brought on by Alex's drop system and increased difficulty of the final floors of Savage, thus requiring more attempts to successfully progress and successfully obtain necessary loot. But I don't think it's the normal mode that's the problem. -
10-05-2015, 07:44 PMKarstenSMy personal interest in the expreme mode trials was always low. One time to have seen it. Yes. But after that, I went just into it again, when someone needed me to fill missing spots. I've never really farmed one of them for my own, except ravana, which dropped the best weapon out of the box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
The practise time you needed for the ex primals was also much lower than for coil or now AS.
The first 3 primals did also burn me out. At 2.0 the 3 primals Ifrit, Garuda and Titan were already as story and hardmode in the game and for patch 2.1 it got announced, we will see these 3 primals again. Yay. My first thoughts were: not impressive. -
10-05-2015, 08:02 PMCraiger
As with many problems in the game, it all comes down to the resources of the developement team...
Should the raids be "bigger"? Yes, I think so. I don't think we need more pointless trash mobs, but if they could make more meaningful trash (not trash in other words), then that would be awesome. More bosses would be great too. Can they do it with the current size of the team? Not unless they cut something else out.
They're already working overtime to give us what we are about to get in 3.1 for example.
Should there be another difficulty in raids? Yes, doesn't have to be just the same version in different difficulties, but yes... Can that happen? As before... Not without cutting out something else. -
10-05-2015, 10:42 PMNFaelivrinRaids are now something that even casual players can do thanks to the introduction of a normal mode, even if said normal mode was poorly implemented, therefore, designing bigger raids means designing more content for practically every player. As it is all Alexander normal is doing right now is showing casual players that yes, there's only four raid bosses every six months in the game. I'd like to add also that Savage going so far as to completely remove the short trash sections before every boss and dumping you right in front of the boss room has finally completely removed what marginal difference there used to be between raids and trials. Nobody likes worthless trash mobs when farming a raid, but I'm sure there were better solutions to this than "oh screw it just dump them right in front of the boss every time".Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccharin
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10-05-2015, 11:02 PMIbiSince they have no drops, Hard Mode trials can be done a single time to unlock the extreme version, then ignored outside of when they come up in Roulette.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
Conversely, the gear from Alexander was a necessary step in gearing, requiring multiple clears per week if a group was serious about progressing. -
10-05-2015, 11:07 PMColorfulIf we're talking casual content then it's technically 8 bosses every 6-8 months, 10-12 if you include EX primals and considering trials are almost identical to raids and you said...Quote:
Originally Posted by NFaelivrin
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10-06-2015, 12:00 AMMadjamesThis is sad. I mean I just realized that raids and EX primals are one and the same. With one 4 bosses and no trash its like we are doing trials over and over. Why even call them raids if they do not act lime them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Craiger
I guess I am just looking for a raid that are actual raids and not trial bosses. -
10-06-2015, 12:34 AMMutemuttWell, there's always been "story mode" primals, so to speak, so I don't think the extreme modes have ever really appealed to that challenging story aspect. Coil didn't really have a "story mode", so I don't think it's unfair to say that challenging story feel of the endgame raid has been lost with the introduction of normal mode alexander.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
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10-06-2015, 12:43 AMVelhartLast I recall, Turn 2 is a gauntlet of goblins you have to fight. WoW is basically set up like this except not separated by instances. Go in, kill trash mobs, kill mini-boss sometimes, fight big boss, rinse and repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
The best solution as I have said like a broken record is that simply Normal mode needs to be on the difficulty level of Final Coil (with no echo buff) and Savage needs to be as brutal as possible. It is sickening when I hear people want a hold my hand baby mode so they can get the story. The story is a reward and it should be treated as such. SE catered to the ones not willing to put the effort or wait to out gear it/echo buff. Normal should of set the motion for midcore players and Savage should of truly been for the best of the best.
SE needs to realize that sometimes they need to balance what is best for the game and not cater to the "I think I am entitled" players. Challenges and walls need to be a thing to give incentive to players to keep pushing. It is also understandable that some teams cannot handle the intensity of Savage. Normal is the middle ground here for people wanting challenge without being brutally punished like some really hardcore crave.
Right now in the game, the only challenging content in this game is Savage and RavEX, which you can easily be carried in RavEX now. I don't believe 3.1 is going to be the solution either. At most the next extreme primal will offer little challenge for a few days until everyone and their mother can farm it.
tl;dr: Developers cater way too heavily on both ends of the extreme and never attempt to find a middle ground.