Question 18 of XVII Q&A Live Letter

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's not the mercing itself. It's the fact that people are getting carried. This is the main issue, even if you don't agree.

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What is the difference between a FC carrying a less skilled member and someone buying a run from a non-friend group? Either way, carries happen. One just has currency changing hands, so either that's the only issue or there is no issue at all. It can't be that someone is getting carried - what would SE care about that? I can see them caring about the economic impact of the amount of gil changing hands, but then again, this economy is so broken I don't see why they would even bother at this point.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's not the mercing itself. It's the fact that people are getting carried. This is the main issue, even if you don't agree.

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Time to make Matt (maat) fights for level or dungeon entrance. lol

I dont think they should develop socially restricting systems to stop playing or helping other players, if they want people to follow a specified path then just do that with skill checks here and there -- not social. They've started to do path progression control with ilevel requirements to enter dungeons, can't enter without having a certain combination of previous stages. Just make the ilevel more strict, can't enter without at least 8/10 of the previous tier ilevel.. that'd certainly put people through more of the content and more opportunity to learn at a good pace (the token system would need to be modified in respect to the highest dungeon you've "mastered" so you can't buy farther than you can play, but otherwise I think that'd help this issue a bit).

Besides the system doesn't stop carrying anyways (indirectly it may have an effect on being helped, but directly it just slows people because of all the social hoola hoops - this group is not just "scrubs").

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

What is the difference between a FC carrying a less skilled member and someone buying a run from a non-friend group? Either way, carries happen.

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quantity, incentive, general perception, jealousy, RMT.

- an FC only has to carry so many members, a seller group will carry as many as there is willing to pay.
- FC members get bored of doing it after while when the only reason to is to be nice.
- FC carries don't have to be advertised via the open chat channels or the Party Finder for everyone to see.
- FC carries will only annoy other FC members who for some reason don't get carried, Sells will annoy everyone who won't/can't pay
- FC carries don't tempt players to partake in RMT

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Originally Posted by skaterger

So just selfish? For your own personal benefit. Like I mentioned, you can still do every other content in the game with them. Coil is locked for a reason, and a good one.

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So because I want to do, what is considered the hardest content in the game with friends makes me selfish, and you imply I am lazy because I want wins handed to me. Want imply anything else?

Besides leveling the uninteresting jobs I haven't leveled, there isn't much I haven't done in terms of content. beating coil is one of the last things.

Also I help people all the time when I get to play for about an hour. Several times I have used up my little time playing to teach random people what to do in dungeons if they are new.

I can name more, the only thing you have proven to me with your points is that you are a jerk.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

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You just affirmed that the only reason you think the lockout works is because it benefits YOUR group greatly. Open up the turns for everyone and there goes the market since it will give everyone and anyone the chance to sell the runs (if they want to) - you have it backwards though (as far as market goes); having it locked doesn't keep it competitive, it negates it seeing as how you basically have it cornered because you have the advantage of a steady group that can sell runs and do runs on the sides (assuming YOU DO have those alts).

I'm not hating you for it. Lockout or not, this shit gets nerfed anyways and anyone wasting their gil for a CARRY is debatable (I've seen people buy GEAR. Personally to me, that's different..) so don't think anyone has sour grapes on the matter.

But in this post you come off as if, from a business perspective, you want to make sure NO ONE else has their hands on selling runs and keep it limited with only a few groups so you can make bank as much as you can. If you think this is beneficial to the community, it's more of the devil you know I suppose. If people are comfortable (ignorance is bliss) with you and other elite groups just having control of it versus the entire community (steady hardcore raiders and a few casuals), then yeah - pick your poison since we haven't seen the effect of EVERYONE being given the option to sell runs.

If anything, The Hunt taught me that having unlimited access to free shit makes anyone cray-cray with greed. The REAL question is, had we not had lock-outs to begin with, would stupid effects like the Hunt not happen in the first place? I mean it's like denying someone fatty food for months, then leaving them alone in a room full of sweet stuff, what do you think will happen?

To solve the lockout problem they need either raids of variable size or good pre-raid preparation content (like more elaborate dungeons that can only be done with people on the current server). The hardest part about raiding is figuring out who to raid with due to the social pressure involved. Of course people would love higher level raiders to run them through the content, but asking that of what little raiding community we have isn't fair to those raiders who had to stomach much of the same problems.

How about (using as an example): Regular Second Coil only gives UAT's, Oils and Sands (and maybe a "Broken High Allagan Weapon" from T9. Gotta beat it to unlock Savage mode), while Savage Second Coil will drop the High Allagan equipment, with T9 either dropping the High Allagan weapon or the item needed to fix the weapon. Naturally they can not do that with Second Coil, since it would be a slap on the face to people still working on beating T6-T9, but with Third Coil... IF SE throw in another Weathered gear set. You can go back to do the Regular Turns to help or fill in as a replacement, but you can not roll on the items.

Also, as I clearly have not done Savage Coil, is it possible to carry people through it? If not, then that also may not need a player lockout :O

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

what she said

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This is spot on accurate. In addition to this, lockouts force you to run Coil only at a particular time and only with the same people (unless you're prepared to deal with the rigours of PUG'ing).
Whether I happen to kite T7 better than any of those elite statics selling carries, it doesn't matter because I can't even do Coil due to the restrictions imposed and will never join an elitist static.
So open it up to everyone, the elitists are going to sell carries on their 2nd and 3rd accounts until the lockout is removed anyway.
Server 1st who cares, they're all running parsers anyway.
Making players wait entire patches to access content through Duty Finder such as 2nd Coil and Ramuh Ex just does not make sense.

#itallgetsnerfedanyway

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Originally Posted by ToffeeCoffee

This is spot on accurate. In addition to this, lockouts force you to run Coil only at a particular time and only with the same people (unless you're prepared to deal with the rigours of PUG'ing).
Whether I happen to kite T7 better than any of those elite statics selling carries, it doesn't matter because I can't even do Coil due to the restrictions imposed and will never join an elitist static.
So open it up to everyone, the elitists are going to sell carries on their 2nd and 3rd accounts until the lockout is removed anyway.
Server 1st who cares, they're all running parsers anyway.
Making players wait entire patches to access content through Duty Finder such as 2nd Coil and Ramuh Ex just does not make sense.

#itallgetsnerfedanyway

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qFHF-szZLr...bride+meme.jpg

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Originally Posted by PrimeEvilPanda

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Huh? I was pointing out how a lockout restricts supply therefore making selling lucrative, people are saying that taking the lock out will benefit carrying too much but at the moment it's actually the best situation for mercs because it makes the most money. T9 in particular is not at all an easy carry so it's not like I'd anticipate tons of competition even if there was no lockout, It will take an increase in the ilevel and echo before it is easy to carry.

As it turns out carrying someone is hard, and for all the people out there who claim that it's just groups that hold them back there's a real shortage of players who are truly as good as they say they are. I do see the effect of everyone being able to sell runs on non-lock out content and still few step up. If anything I wish there was more competition on our server, challenge is still the real reason to play and money/loot is secondary to that.

Having it locked does keep it competitive because loot in progression content is meant to be for a group, not a player, and loot being a team's business has been bread and butter for progression raiding since forever. Look at how groups rationed out UAT and sands in the early weeks of 2.2, it was working as intended so when raids come out it is made for absolutely no one else in mind but progression raiders.

And for SE it is good because by average someone in a group will draw the short straw and get terrible loot luck, and they actually depend on this to extend the content past the number of slots in your gear converted into weeks; until the next raid comes out. Personally I think they undermined this in 2.3 and the lock out during this patch is somewhat pointless, especially when it conflicts with the actual progression content in this patch, savage coil.