Please patch Turn 2 enrage

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Originally Posted by NeonC

It's the principle people! If everyone keeps defending it and SE keeps making content with easy mode kills or keeps decreasing difficulty that's no fun to me. It's telling me that the future content of the game will be made with no real challenge. I have just started t5 but it worries me that people seem to prefer simple boring fights to complex tough ones.

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The principle is intact. If you feel like you're cheapening the experience by 0 click, pass rot. This is the modern age and we have options! Hooray for options!

I have the option but I am also not going to take the harder route if a more simple one is presented. I want it -designed- challenging, otherwise why not come on my alt in i60 gear and make it a real challenge. Not to mention I do not have the final say over 7 other people in my static and which method we choose.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

And now people are 1 Tanking turn 1 - 4 with the enrage strat on t2 leaving a ton of tanks left out.

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How is it possible to t1 with 1 tank? Also, on excalibur at least, I have yet to see an issue with tanks being left out of coil due to the Enrage strategy.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

I have the option but I am also not going to take the harder route if a more simple one is presented. I want it -designed- challenging, otherwise why not come on my alt in i60 gear and make it a real challenge. Not to mention I do not have the final say over 7 other people in my static and which method we choose.

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Hold on. So, you want Square to impose something difficult because you lack motivation to take the long path? Sorry, but if for nothing else, I disagree because I'd prefer to have the choice to do either/or.

Dropping your ilvl down is one way to increase difficulty. Do it the way the first parties cleared. Would give you a sense of what you're looking for.

Like I said, you find like minded individuals and run with i60 gear or pass rot if that's what makes it worth your while.

What matters more to you? Ideals or conformity?

You are missing my point, it's the statement it makes about the future development of the game. If i have to impose restraints on myself to create a challenge that will lose all sense of triumph i come to expect when playing a game. I want the fights to be hard, to have to work and think and then have the glory of victory. This is how I felt when I first beat t2, but when i came to see that they think the enrage method is not an exploit but intended or that moogle is being toned down or AK or Twin in the future it just makes me kind of bummed out that this is the direction the game will be going from now on.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

You are missing my point, it's the statement it makes about the future development of the game. If i have to impose restraints on myself to create a challenge that will lose all sense of triumph i come to expect when playing a game. I want the fights to be hard, to have to work and think and then have the glory of victory. This is how I felt when I first beat t2, but when i came to see that they think the enrage method is not an exploit but intended or that moogle is being toned down or AK or Twin in the future it just makes me kind of bummed out that this is the direction the game will be going from now on.

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Isn't that what T4-5 are now? It's impossible to keep both sides happy. By offering options, Square is doing the lesser of evils.

All pigeon holing does is lead to scripted fights and a one mentality approach to things (like we don't have enough of that already). I would rather flexibility and options over mind numbing difficulty and pattern memorization (this applies to T2 only. Good King Mog was good to go in my book. I was of the mind that it didn't need to get toned down and AK's nerf also took away it's gear value as well).

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Originally Posted by NeonC

It's the principle people! If everyone keeps defending it and SE keeps making content with easy mode kills or keeps decreasing difficulty that's no fun to me. It's telling me that the future content of the game will be made with no real challenge. I have just started t5 but it worries me that people seem to prefer simple boring fights to complex tough ones.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

I have the option but I am also not going to take the harder route if a more simple one is presented. I want it -designed- challenging, otherwise why not come on my alt in i60 gear and make it a real challenge. Not to mention I do not have the final say over 7 other people in my static and which method we choose.

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Are you contradicting yourself? You say you prefer a complex, tough fight over some simple and boring then proceed to say you are "not going to take the harder route if a more simple one is presented."

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Originally Posted by Ustav

Are you contradicting yourself? You say you prefer a complex, tough fight over some simple and boring then proceed to say you are "not going to take the harder route if a more simple one is presented."

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Because making something harder artificially isn't the same. It's like trying a gimmick, like doing Titan HM in swimsuits. It feels artificial when you know you're gimping yourself.
That's an extreme example and Turn 2 is obviously not as bad as that. The non-enrage method even takes less time than the enrage one.

On one hand, I understand pugging can be tough so it's nice that there's a way to get through Turn 2 without getting lucky with a good pick of people. I'm not really against it.

On the other hand, I think the game needs more complex, challenging and interesting mechanics. Turn 2 is one of the few parts of end-game where group coordination is a thing and this should be encouraged. I am hopeful, though, since most of Crystal Tower have such mechanics and so does Ifrit EM so I think they're heading in that direction.

Encounters should require a certain level of complexity and, in some cases, allow for you to make the fight harder as well. I think to some people, turning one of the few cases where there's a certain level of group coordination into something much closer to a tank and spank is upsetting.

Having a harder/simpler route really only applies when the simple route is the normal route and the harder one is crazy challenging. Instead, it's more like normal/easy. No one complains if you can make a fight harder for achievements/bragging rights. They'll only complain if there's a built in easy route.

I'm not really against the enrage method, but the design does seem weird. The node mechanics and which you decide to kill are part of the base design. You shouldn't be able to throw it out.

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Originally Posted by Ustav

Are you contradicting yourself? You say you prefer a complex, tough fight over some simple and boring then proceed to say you are "not going to take the harder route if a more simple one is presented."

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Who cares if it is a contradiction, even though the next sentence should clarify(if you read that far).

I am guessing the Devs allow it to exist because they are explicitly aware 75% of pugs are wholly incapable of dealing with the rot mechanic. The nightmares I had to go through as a lone adventurer into teams for T2 before they began enraging was ridiculous. No matter how smart, experienced, or elite they SEEMED when you joined, you'd fight your way down to the boss and people would instantly turn into a bunch of snarfs, face-planting into walls and passing rot instantly OR NOT AT ALL, etc.