Stop lying to your groups

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Originally Posted by Wobi

Another Pro-Tip: Not all jobs play the same, if you beat Titan as a PLD you don't know the fight as a DRG or a WHM.

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You'd have to be braindead to not notice his rotation when tanking him and that information is invaluable as a dps or healer.

Sure if you are the kind of guy that repeatedly gets hit by red things on the floor for the thousandth time then you'll learn nothing regardless of the class you play.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

You are confusing. You say "don't copy" but encourage people to look up strategies. I guess you must be new to the MMO genre. Players will always have the "cookie cutter" build/way to do something and if its not done that way, "its wrong!". Take leveling in FFXIV for instance. If you arent doing FATE you are doing it wrong and slow, even though people hate FATES its the "fastest" way to level ergo everyone must do it. It gets to the point where anyone trying to Level up outside of that has to struggle to do so.

What does make sense is you asking that people at least try to get an idea of how things work before entering. But its like any profession in real life. They will not hire you without actual work experience. How do you get work experience if you cannot get a job working in the field without having experience? i agree with another poster in here. Have you seen a single shout saying "LFM Coil turn 1 {no experience necessary}"

As for copying, to me its like when i'm cooking. first time, i follow the recipe to the letter. After i tried it and see how it works, i begin to tweak it to suit my tastes. Same goes for this and other MMO's better to copy someone to see how things work, giving you a base to go by, then tweak it to suit your playstyle. Condemning people for doing things differently than you will not help anyone. It will frustrate you and frustrate them. I wish people were more accepting and understanding instead of impatient and resentful.

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Normally, I'd agree with you but it's important to understand that Coil is highly dependent on what you bring with you. You can't treat a Warrior like a Paladin and you can't treat a BLM/SMN like a BRD/DRG/MNK. This changes how you have to play - especially on T5 and to some extent T2/T4.

Thus, it's always better to understand the underlying mechanics and how people fail - rather than how one group succeeds.

It's helpful to understand mechanics by looking at what other people do, but you won't find a ton of similarities because parties aren't necessarily similar.

My posts a tailored specifically about Coil, less so about Titan because Coil is literally the only time strategy matters. Everything else is dodging mechanics. Unless you a BRD or a tank - you need zero experience to clear anything in the game. All you have to do is dodge mechanics and memorizing rotations. Experience suggests a level of strategy.

For instance, we didn't clear Titan simply on the basis of tweaking the strategy. We cleared it based on sheer memorization. That's different and teachable. Regardless though, I believe people are best taught through failure.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Normally, I'd agree with you but it's important to understand that Coil is highly dependent on what you bring with you. You can't treat a Warrior like a Paladin and you can't treat a BLM/SMN like a BRD/DRG/MNK. This changes how you have to play - especially on T5 and to some extent T2/T4.

Thus, it's always better to understand the underlying mechanics and how people fail - rather than how one group succeeds.

It's helpful to understand mechanics by looking at what other people do, but you won't find a ton of similarities because parties aren't necessarily similar.

My posts a tailored specifically about Coil, less so about Titan because Coil is literally the only time strategy matters. Everything else is dodging mechanics. Unless you a BRD or a tank - you need zero experience to clear anything in the game. All you have to do is dodge mechanics and memorizing rotations. Experience suggests a level of strategy.

For instance, we didn't clear Titan simply on the basis of tweaking the strategy. We cleared it based on sheer memorization. That's different and teachable. Regardless though, I believe people are best taught through failure.

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Then people need to be given the opportunity to fail. If you cant get a group because you have no experience, how do you get experience so you can get a group? FC's sure, but two of my past FC's told me to shout for a group and do it that way a few times before we let you into our group. I'm in a good FC now. So, do you allow people to join your groups if they have not run it yet but have done a little research?

The biggest problem I have with this issue is, that most 'experienced' players think like this:

doesn't know the dungeon = doesn't know how to play

... and this is so wrong!

There are many very good players out there who know how to play their class and are very skilled, sometimes they are even more skilled as hardcore players, and can teach them a thing or two. But sometimes they just don't progress as fast as other gamers, maybe they started the game not with launch and started playing a month later or they just don't have so much time. So naturally they end up later in the endgame, and will do most of the dungeons there for the first time. But please, don't misinterprete these people as unskilled Players.

Here is a cartoon, that displays it perfectly:
http://2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/34/2...45b87f0671.jpg
http://www.dorkly.com/comic/49235/a-tale-of-two-gamers

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Then people need to be given the opportunity to fail. If you cant get a group because you have no experience, how do you get experience so you can get a group? FC's sure, but two of my past FC's told me to shout for a group and do it that way a few times before we let you into our group. I'm in a good FC now. So, do you allow people to join your groups if they have not run it yet but have done a little research?

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Well...yeah, how else would it work? We have two highly experienced raids and those group don't change. If they did, a new player certainly wouldn't be slotted in. We put newcomers with newcomers, or as close as we can get to that. Yes, there's sometimes difficulties setting up new raids because you need a very specific set of jobs. Two bards require a dragoon. BLM/SMN with duo paladins. Scholar with a warrior. And so on....

Everyone is expected to view our videos, because we go over each mechanic and how we handled it. However, because our primary raid is a bit weird - I don't want anyone copying what we did to make up for the lack of SMN/BLM. As I said before, I want groups to understand why they fail so they can adjust individually. By always running the same compositions and strategies, we are never going to make a strategic breakthrough. The same mistakes will be made constantly if things aren't adjusted, or they simply won't work at all.

Want to make a change? Roll a tank, roll with newbies. If someone leaves, it's ok, plenty of other people willing to play. Everyone one else is expendable.

:P

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Originally Posted by Noni

What is the point of that? This is a game for crying out loud! Why do people take this stuff so seriously? The things mentioned in this very forum will be the reason why this game will decline quickly. There will only be a few "great players" left to play with each other, how fun is that?

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When you're wasting the time of seven other people, yes there is an element of seriousness to it.

People are actually paying to be here, and when you waste their time, they're going to get annoyed, regardless of whether its a 'lolgame' or not.

Ppl lie to group to get in then just say sorry having an off day cause its the only way to try get your way into coil if your undergeared

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Originally Posted by Keyblade

Ppl lie to group to get in then just say sorry having an off day cause its the only way to try get your way into coil if your undergeared

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So you want to go Coil while being undergeared? Damn this explains everything about your posts.

i second what the OP says, i prefer to play with newbs that want to learn, not noobs or idiots......id rather take a few extra mins to explain what is needed to be known, rather than wipe because someone claims they know