"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Or, (even though this poster probably has me blocked as I disagree with them), dpsing down 2 packs of mobs is twice the damage done. Therefore bigger dps. Math is easy. 2 is double of 1

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Saving your burst for the larger cluster is more efficient. Unless you don't mean for them to use their burst and instead just basic aoes, you wont get them past half health usually.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Saving your burst for the larger cluster is more efficient. Unless you don't mean for them to use their burst and instead just basic aoes, you wont get them past half health usually.

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That and it is more efficient for tanks and healers to use our CDs on two big pulls instead of four small pulls. Just more efficient all around.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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If a DPS is outpacing the tank and healer without using Sprint (this is my only assumption), then the tank and healer (who were already confirmed in this scenario to be w2wing. They were just slow) need to go faster. A DPS with hate will not die in the next 5-10 seconds, so they're effectively free mitigation for the tank. Once the DPS bring the trash back to the tank, all the tank has to do is spam their AoE and now everything is under control. Healer doesn't even really need to heal the DPS either because they shouldn't be taking any more damage (unless it's a mob that does unavoidable damage). Maybe throw a regen on them if WHM/AST.

I genuinely do not understand why you're enabling the tank and healer for letting a DPS KO by stating the DPS should have been more patient.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Maybe in Copperbell mines. When mobs starting get moderately tanky, it's a lot more efficient to AoE them two groups at a time, than stopping to kill a pack and then starting over again.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I genuinely do not understand why you're enabling the tank and healer for letting a DPS KO by stating the DPS should have been more patient.

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Because I have dealt with that crap constantly since 2.0, and it reached a point to where I'm the jaded tank going "Fine, you do it if you don't think I'm going fast enough," AND the jaded healer going "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME HEAL UNNECESSARILY, YOU DIE WHEN I SAY SO AND I SAY DIE!" Seriously, I'm at that point to where people will get no sympathy from me, only aggression. I'm also a DPS who will spam their AoE and use their big cooldowns on mobs to speed up the run while running between groups. Just kill the damned things we've got during the pull, stop running ahead of the tank when that only makes this take longer to kill these things.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because I have dealt with that crap constantly since 2.0, and it reached a point to where I'm the jaded tank going "Fine, you do it if you don't think I'm going fast enough," AND the jaded healer going "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME HEAL UNNECESSARILY, YOU DIE WHEN I SAY SO AND I SAY DIE!" Seriously, I'm at that point to where people will get no sympathy from me, only aggression. I'm also a DPS who will spam their AoE and use their big cooldowns on mobs to speed up the run while running between groups. Just kill the damned things we've got during the pull, stop running ahead of the tank when that only makes this take longer to kill these things.

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So you let people die as a tank because people make your job harder by pulling for you. You let people die as a healer because you have to "heal unnecessarily". But yet you're the DPS who goes absolutely ham on the mobs mid pull and rips aggro off tanks (since most tanks only hit the mobs once and move on to the next group). So you make the tanks job harder, make the healer have to "unnecessarily heal" but yet if anyone has the gall to do it to you, you're so "jaded" that you grief them. That entitlement.

Sounds to me like you're the problem. You're the type of player most people in this game would complain about.

You've hit rock bottom mentally and emotionally and you're actively trying to drag others down with you.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because I have dealt with that crap constantly since 2.0, and it reached a point to where I'm the jaded tank going "Fine, you do it if you don't think I'm going fast enough," AND the jaded healer going "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME HEAL UNNECESSARILY, YOU DIE WHEN I SAY SO AND I SAY DIE!" Seriously, I'm at that point to where people will get no sympathy from me, only aggression. I'm also a DPS who will spam their AoE and use their big cooldowns on mobs to speed up the run while running between groups. Just kill the damned things we've got during the pull, stop running ahead of the tank when that only makes this take longer to kill these things.

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But... If you gather the second pack you can AoE double the mobs at the same time, and the DPS get to hit double the mobs with their big bursts and Limit Breaks, and possibly the tank gets to invuln more mobs, it ends up saving time...

As usual, YPYT and sketch takes about "efficiency" go hand in hand.

Regarding your thing about jaded tanks and healers sabotaging the run because of entitlement, do you know what this reminds me of? Playing MOBA when tilted. When you think you are not only owed a victory, but owed for everyone else to play the way you know is right so you get it, and if they don't you start throwing 4 minutes in a match and end up not getting the victory. It is the most toxic garbage ever and tanks who refuse to tank, healers who refuse to heal, show the same behavior, you just think it's less harmful because you are guaranteed the "win", clearing the dungeon, eventually, if people don't leave or kick you over your bullshit - but I'd say that a dungeon taking 10 minutes longer than it has to because you let dps players die at trash packs to make your misguided point should count as a "loss".

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

So you let people die as a tank because people make your job harder by pulling for you. You let people die as a healer because you have to "heal unnecessarily". But yet you're the DPS who goes absolutely ham on the mobs mid pull and rips aggro off tanks (since most tanks only hit the mobs once and move on to the next group). So you make the tanks job harder, make the healer have to "unnecessarily heal" but yet if anyone has the gall to do it to you, you're so "jaded" that you grief them. That entitlement.

Sounds to me like you're the problem. You're the type of player most people in this game would complain about.

You've hit rock bottom mentally and emotionally and you're actively trying to drag others down with you.

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I have rules about this.

If I'm a tank pulling and nobody is running ahead but aggro is gained off me, I will pick it up immediately, it was my fault for not getting enough aggro on them to avoid that. If you run ahead, I will not grab the aggro UNLESS the healer heals you, at which point I'm doing it to save that healer in advance.

If I'm healer, I will heal you if you accidentally grabbed aggro off the tank while they were running ahead, because again, tank didn't have enough aggro but was trying to grab everything, so I will keep you alive. If you pull ahead of the tank and the tank grabs it, I will heal you because the tank feels you shouldn't die. If you pull ahead and the tank does not grab the aggro, I will let you go down.

If I'm DPS and I steal the aggro off the tank from the adds they first picked up, I will sprint and catch up to them, standing there in front of them when he finally stops so they can pick the adds up as they come from behind. If they and the healer let me die, I won't bother AoEing the adds until they're all gathered for the rest of the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I have rules about this.

If I'm a tank pulling and nobody is running ahead but aggro is gained off me, I will pick it up immediately, it was my fault for not getting enough aggro on them to avoid that. If you run ahead, I will not grab the aggro UNLESS the healer heals you, at which point I'm doing it to save that healer in advance.

If I'm healer, I will heal you if you accidentally grabbed aggro off the tank while they were running ahead, because again, tank didn't have enough aggro but was trying to grab everything, so I will keep you alive. If you pull ahead of the tank and the tank grabs it, I will heal you because the tank feels you shouldn't die. If you pull ahead and the tank does not grab the aggro, I will let you go down.

If I'm DPS and I steal the aggro off the tank from the adds they first picked up, I will sprint and catch up to them, standing there in front of them when he finally stops so they can pick the adds up as they come from behind. If they and the healer let me die, I won't bother AoEing the adds until they're all gathered for the rest of the dungeon.

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What happens if I'm running ahead as DPS, grab aggro, then run back and park myself right on top of you so you can easily get threat from everything just by doing your normal AoE rotation?