Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

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Originally Posted by Sinstrel

Let's say they somehow create a perfect way to stop all pre-mades and que syncing, and get rid of DRK salted earth, block job stacking, perfectly cap AoE to 5 targets just the way thats perfect for you, and completely remove "win trading"...

What happens when the same players being accused of all of these things still stomp every match with game knowledge, map awareness and synergy with other veteran PvPers who they've matched with over and over for years?

Humor me.

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Isn't it obvious? Better keyboard and gaming chair.

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Originally Posted by Sinstrel

Let's say they somehow create a perfect way to stop all pre-mades and que syncing, and get rid of DRK salted earth, block job stacking, perfectly cap AoE to 5 targets just the way thats perfect for you, and completely remove "win trading"...

What happens when the same players being accused of all of these things still stomp every match with game knowledge, map awareness and synergy with other veteran PvPers who they've matched with over and over for years?

Humor me.

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They wouldn't, if for no other reason than the genuine crushers (there are few IMO) would be distributed across all 3 teams. That said, a matchmaking algorithm would cure the hypothetical problem and make all matches more competitive.

It's not a giant leap, is it?

Gold: Players with fewer than X games and those in the bottom third of win-rate. Also acts as an on-ramp/training ground for PvP sprouts.
Platinum: The middle third of players based on win-rate with more than X games.
Crystal: High (top third) win-rate players. Thereby giving the Discord mafia what they claim to want: high-quality matches free of "leeches."

Or is the 14 PvP community sufficiently messed up we'd just get a massive outbreak of smurfing?

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

They wouldn't, if for no other reason than the genuine crushers (there are few IMO) would be distributed across all 3 teams. That said, a matchmaking algorithm would cure the hypothetical problem and make all matches more competitive.

It's not a giant leap, is it?

Gold: Players with fewer than X games and those in the bottom third of win-rate. Also acts as an on-ramp/training ground for PvP sprouts.
Platinum: The middle third of players based on win-rate with more than X games.
Crystal: High (top third) win-rate players. Thereby giving the Discord mafia what they claim to want: high-quality matches free of "leeches."

Or is the 14 PvP community sufficiently messed up we'd just get a massive outbreak of smurfing?

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It's worth noting that this kind of system could create unintentional smurfing.

For example, I used to queue up with 7 other friends back when 8 man parties were allowed and we would play meme comps and just have fun whether we win or lose. As a result, my winrate is currently less than 30%, which means I'd be put with the newbies. However, when I play a job I know how to play, I usually end the game with a score of 8/0 or 14/1 or something like that as a solo player, that would probably end up with me unintentionally smurfing my matches with this system.

I guess my point is that any system would have flaws, although the flaw in this case would naturally correct itself as all the experienced players with low win rate will naturally rise out of the lower tiers.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

It's worth noting that this kind of system could create unintentional smurfing.

For example, I used to queue up with 7 other friends back when 8 man parties were allowed and we would play meme comps and just have fun whether we win or lose. As a result, my winrate is currently less than 30%, which means I'd be put with the newbies. However, when I play a job I know how to play, I usually end the game with a score of 8/0 or 14/1 or something like that as a solo player, that would probably end up with me unintentionally smurfing my matches with this system.

I guess my point is that any system would have flaws, although the flaw in this case would naturally correct itself as all the experienced players with low win rate will naturally rise out of the lower tiers.

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Yeah, there will doubtless be anomalies like that, and one other issue with 24-person teams is that it slows the movement of players to their "correct" tier. It'd go much faster with 16- or 8-person teams.

I just feel anything is better than dumping such a broad swathe of experience and motivation levels in one big bucket. I think it'd eliminate 90% of the frustration and unpleasantness that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Yeah, there will doubtless be anomalies like that, and one other issue with 24-person teams is that it slows the movement of players to their "correct" tier. It'd go much faster with 16- or 8-person teams.

I just feel anything is better than dumping such a broad swathe of experience and motivation levels in one big bucket. I think it'd eliminate 90% of the frustration and unpleasantness that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

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I think a smaller party size is kind of a double-edged sword here, if the party size is 24 and 4 people die to a DRK dive, you still have 20 people to mount a counterattack on the retreating opponents, but if 4 people die in an 8 man party, that's half your team gone.

While 8 man teams would be cleaner and easier for newbies to tell what's going on, it would also amplify the contributions of a single player, making both premades and strong solo players even more impactful.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I think a smaller party size is kind of a double-edged sword here, if the party size is 24 and 4 people die to a DRK dive, you still have 20 people to mount a counterattack on the retreating opponents, but if 4 people die in an 8 man party, that's half your team gone.

While 8 man teams would be cleaner and easier for newbies to tell what's going on, it would also amplify the contributions of a single player, making both premades and strong solo players even more impactful.

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Wonder if a MMR would self-correct that? Yeah it's a complex issue, and I don't think SQEX willfully went out of their way to create the current mess, but it is their responsibility to get in there with a mop and bucket and deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

They wouldn't, if for no other reason than the genuine crushers (there are few IMO) would be distributed across all 3 teams. That said, a matchmaking algorithm would cure the hypothetical problem and make all matches more competitive.

It's not a giant leap, is it?

Gold: Players with fewer than X games and those in the bottom third of win-rate. Also acts as an on-ramp/training ground for PvP sprouts.
Platinum: The middle third of players based on win-rate with more than X games.
Crystal: High (top third) win-rate players. Thereby giving the Discord mafia what they claim to want: high-quality matches free of "leeches."

Or is the 14 PvP community sufficiently messed up we'd just get a massive outbreak of smurfing?

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Are you suggesting that Square also has a technique to assess skill account-wide to evenly distribute any player with skill across all 3 grand companies so that no matter what alts we play on any data center, we wont stomp out games on a regular basis?

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Originally Posted by Sinstrel

Are you suggesting that Square also has a technique to assess skill account-wide to evenly distribute any player with skill across all 3 grand companies so that no matter what alts we play on any data center, we wont stomp out games on a regular basis?

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I would never underestimate the ingenuity of curbstompers to ruin the mode for others. MMR is not a perfect solution, just a commonly-used one that would alleviate current issues greatly IMO. Most of us simply want competitive, interesting matches.

Edit: think I misunderstood you. Apologies. I'm not suggesting top players would be evenly distributed across the GCs by SQEX. That would be absurdly difficult. Simply that on average they will be distributed evenly (particularly if premades are removed), and be in the top tier where they'll face off against people who can play back at them. I'm not looking for total parity, that would be silly. Just a three-tier system so that those of us who are trying and somewhat competent don't have AFKers to deal with.

If I get stomped by someone who plays better than me, absolutely no problem. That is motivation to improve. But the current mix that throws all skills and playstyles together simply isn't working for anyone.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

If I get stomped by someone who plays better than me, absolutely no problem. That is motivation to improve.

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You absolutely would, and do, have a problem with it. Complaining and French resistance RP instead of improving, like you just said you'd be motivated to, also.

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Originally Posted by Naizakane

You absolutely would, and do, have a problem with it. Complaining and French resistance RP instead of improving, like you just said you'd be motivated to, also.

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Would you please not presume to tell me what I have a problem with? I have emphasized time and again my issue with the current situation is boring matches and a stale meta. I am offering suggestions to make them less boring. I'm sorry my attempts at humour apparently upset you.

As to improving, I've gone from being absolutely dreadful to typically having the best K/D/A of any WAR on the field. Sorry that doesn't conform to your misconceptions.

One of the things I've learned from this thread is that FL attracts players with a psychic ability to divine the thoughts and motivations of others, who additionally have never been wrong about anything in their lives. It's not surprising so few people engage with the mode.

Back to the shadows.