Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

Love the wedges.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Ha ha, no, their decision was mentioned several times. On this thread and in most of the other veira threads too.

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And to which, they said they were reviewing player feedback. They've changed things before based on player feedback (see the issues in the past with player housing), to which, there's no reason that your opinion is more valid than anyone else's.

Personally, I ignore people who don't contribute anything to the topic at hand. If those folks just wanna pop on here, probably after hearing how popular these threads STILL are (thumbsup!) and decide to try and be toxic about it, that's fine. They can be the petulant brats, we'll ignore them and continue on.

SE/Yoshi is trying to sell us a product, we're expressing our concerns and/or reservations about said pushed product, instead of inhaling whatever they shove at us. I personally dislike fanboys/zealots and would rather we focus more upon positive discussions/debates rather than debasing ourselves by responding to those who come here looking to "troll".

Remember folks, don't feed the trolls. Ignore them and just continue on, if they want to have a proper debate/discussion, that's fine, but don't let them bait you.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

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Agreed. There will probably be people who unknowingly post art that has already been shown in the thread. Let's try to avoid posting the same thing if possible.
However, I think it's ok to post art that has already been posted if there's something specific about that art piece you want to discuss.

Also guys, if people post hostile comments, just ignore it. I welcome people who disagree with the implementation of male viera to discuss their opinions here, but if they are being rude about it, I suggest you guys not respond.

I can only speak for myself when I say I'm not trying to shut you down because of your opinion, but because of your scorn and negative attitude. Reflect on yourself and come back when you're ready to have an actual respectful discussion.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

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Thanks for saying that Beki. I'm sure there are people here who would just like to have a chill conversation with you.

Beki cant blame mr kimper entirely for back and forth jabs when you have done the same so much where mods have deleted some of your post
Went from 20 post when you started to 13 the next day.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

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I appreciate this and I don't mean that in a condescending way, my posts have equally been as abrasive and I apologize for that, I may disagree but as I've stated I respect people who do not want male viera for lore reasons.

I have read EVERY POST in this thread from the beginning and I don't remember anything hostile in regards to Hrothgar. In fact I think they will make a fine addition to the game. Hopefully even female Hrothgar in time. I'd check them out in an alt but I don't think I'll switch races on this character or my Lalafel on Excalibur. I hope they have a muscle slider...lol

https://i.postimg.cc/VvXTTj32/2019-04-17.jpg


High Res: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ArXBYkP90eNAiDgDLQ6htYQ_Pvw6

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Beki cant blame mr kimper entirely for back and forth jabs when you have done the same so much where mods have deleted some of your post
Went from 20 post when you started to 13 the next day.

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I didn't. I blamed myself for *starting* the jab fight. And I took a 10 day ban for being that sort of jackass.

Since the Thread is prone to it, here'a reminder to please name the artist and not just share Artwork uncommented. You can help that artist get attention. And those liking the art, please go check out the artist and like/retweet/reblog their work. It's only fair.

And now proceed with your mission.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

I will honestly admit that this is inflammatory and very very rude, as are several other posts about "cry mores" and "ain't it sads," as well a some of my own post and I personally would flag them but this isn't really my "fight" as it is. I, personally, don't want male Veira to be playable since the lore established in this game makes them even more elusive and rare then any other lore from other games since they're already on the low birth rate side and are also vetted by way of natural selection.

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That's all fair enough, but then you run into the issue of mooncats, with similar birth rates, and WHM. There is not much in the game rarer than a WHM at the moment. Yet the WoL can play one. Why? Because the WoL (soon, WOD) is an exception, being the chosen champion of the Mothercrystal. I don't think the lore is a particularly solid reason for them not to exist in XIV, and the developers - both Yoshida and Matsuno - have explicitly come out and said it's not the reason for it. They've even mooted possible designs for them. The main issue here is resource limitations, and not the lore. The lore was mainly written that way to dovetail with the driving factor, and not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

http://zantetsuken.net/wp-content/up...ots-banner.jpg What went wrong???

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I know this post is a few days old and what Im about to poitn out is a semi non-sequitur, but Ive been mulling this over in my had and had a few thoughts about this. The reason why the art work works and the 3D doesnt is hte 3D models dont adhere to the proportions given in the artwork. You can broadly look at them at tell a few things almost immediately.

https://i.imgur.com/kFo1tm5.jpg

The left is teh direct screen grabbed model, Middle is the concept art, and right is a photoshopped version of the in game model (**PLEASE NOTE: This edit is only an approximation, it is not perfect or 100% accurate. Just a general idea.) I am using the head as the reference point in this comparison, where I sized the current in game model's head size to the concept arts.

The ingame model is proportionally different than the concept art, instead using a completely separate set of proportions. IF I had to hazard a guess, I would say they had a baseline female model and rig, and they 'stretched' it to get the height they needed without actually reworking the proportions. I say that because if they were working from the concept art and not a previous model, the proportions should be more closely aligned but that doesnt appear to be the case. The male model I would hazard has the same proportions issue, broadly speaking.

With that in consideration, not sure youd want to use the Elezen body as the base for the Viera if theyre not even following the concept art they put out and are instead putting out models with semi weird proportions. Anyways, was just something that I was thinking about.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

With that in consideration, not sure youd want to use the Elezen body as the base for the Viera if theyre not even following the concept art they put out and are instead putting out models with semi weird proportions. Anyways, was just something that I was thinking about.

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I don't know this for certain, but don't the female viera use a modified elezen base? I think SE did a good job with the females, so if that's the case, I think the males would look good using an elezen base, too. The base model does need to be modified like with the females, though.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I don't know this for certain, but don't the female viera use a modified elezen base? I think SE did a good job with the females, so if that's the case, I think the males would look good using an elezen base, too. The base model does need to be modified like with the females, though.

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They could be using it, but I would guess that a lot of modding to the models had to take place. Id have to look at the actual models we get to see, and I wont really know that till 5.0. Could be the case, but the fact is that the Elezen models do have issues so Im not quite sure they would use the pre-existing ones. It might be quicker to just redesign them from the ground up. Particularly if there is the issue with the low-poly count that they keep referencing. Since it's a new race, they may have well made new models in a high poly count that they dumb down to match everything else. This way in the future they wouldnt have to worry about making those high poly models.

But thats all speculation on my part. If anyone has more concrete words from the devs regarding that specifically, Id be interesting in seeing it.

That'd be a sensible way to go about all new assets - you'd hope they were future-proofing them in such a way with the benefit of hindsight.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I don't know this for certain, but don't the female viera use a modified elezen base? I think SE did a good job with the females, so if that's the case, I think the males would look good using an elezen base, too. The base model does need to be modified like with the females, though.

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Actually since XII Zodiac Age was released as a HD re-release on the PS4 they were able to take Fran from that game and use her as a skeleton and base for the female Veira so they're not a modded in game model. It's all Veira from ear tip to toe tip.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Actually since XII Zodiac Age was released as a HD re-release on the PS4 they were able to take Fran from that game and use her as a skeleton and base for the female Veira so they're not a modded in game model. It's all Veira from ear tip to toe tip.

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Citation required : o did they release new info about this?
And they might've just patched them up to look that good, the Rathalos model is 100% in-house but supposedly it looks good enough people thought it was ported. Granted Viera being an SE property from an SE game they'd be able to use their models and skeleton as-is, but that depends on how compatible it is with the existing engine and how easy it would be to customize within XIV.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Citation required : o did they release new info about this?
And they might've just patched them up to look that good, the Rathalos model is 100% in-house but supposedly it looks good enough people thought it was ported. Granted Viera being an SE property from an SE game they'd be able to use their models and skeleton as-is, but that depends on how compatible it is with the existing engine and how easy it would be to customize within XIV.

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I will admit I have no sources to back up what I said except for that Fran was brought over from XII ZA since it was easier then actually making a whole skeleton for her. I'm using Ocham's Razor here since Yoshi P finally got on the board of directors he does have the power to pull resources from other projects now.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

I will admit I have no sources to back up what I said except for that Fran was brought over from XII ZA since it was easier then actually making a whole skeleton for her. I'm using Ocham's Razor here since Yoshi P finally got on the board of directors he does have the power to pull resources from other projects now.

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Hm. I wonder if they didn't borrow Fran as-is to be able to push the content with her faster. There are a lot of assets and models in the game we don't have access to as players, she could very well be different from what we'd end up getting as playable - in so far how they're built, mind, not necessarily how they look. But we won't know until certain, er, researchers of the game get their hands on at least the benchmark.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Hm. I wonder if they didn't borrow Fran as-is to be able to push the content with her faster. There are a lot of assets and models in the game we don't have access to as players, she could very well be different from what we'd end up getting as playable - in so far how they're built, mind, not necessarily how they look. But we won't know until certain, er, researchers of the game get their hands on at least the benchmark.

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That is true. Those... "researchers" will be able to cast light on most of the theories people have about the base of the Veira model, though I maintain them using Fran from FFXIIZAHD would make most of their job easier, and leave them the time necessary to make the unique head and feet as well as try and remodel all the 10,000+ head and foot pieces for these women as well as letting them work on their passion project that is also making them tear out their hair, the Hrothgar.

Again I need to stress I have legitimately Zero evidence for this theory, I'm just applying Logic and deductive reasoning to the situation.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Hm. I wonder if they didn't borrow Fran as-is to be able to push the content with her faster. There are a lot of assets and models in the game we don't have access to as players, she could very well be different from what we'd end up getting as playable - in so far how they're built, mind, not necessarily how they look. But we won't know until certain, er, researchers of the game get their hands on at least the benchmark.

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Kind of makes me curious on how they'll handle ripping and re-rigging 2B's model, since it seems like they did so with noctis, though I know a friends said his looked sort of like an edited male miqo model.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Kind of makes me curious on how they'll handle ripping and re-rigging 2B's model, since it seems like they did so with noctis, though I know a friends said his looked sort of like an edited male miqo model.

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Really? He looks like a Midlander to me.

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Really? He looks like a Midlander to me.

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He does but his running animation is def ripped from the game, down to the weird arm slouch, I don't THINK it's a custom mesh but my friend said his stance and shoulder with matched male miqo'te more than midlanders, but I wouldn't know, I don't mod. I still think it's just a straight rip like fran just scaled way waaay down, since he has the same animations just without the physics engine of XV to back them up.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

He does but his running animation is def ripped from the game, down to the weird arm slouch, I don't THINK it's a custom mesh but my friend said his stance and shoulder with matched male miqo'te more than midlanders, but I wouldn't know, I don't mod. I still think it's just a straight rip like fran just scaled way waaay down, since he has the same animations just without the physics engine of XV to back them up.

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Not to mention that FFXIV still has PS3 limitations so there's also graphical reductions too (he is vastly less detained then in XV.)

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Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Not to mention that FFXIV still has PS3 limitations so there's also graphical reductions too (he is vastly less detained then in XV.)

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PS3 support was ended with stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Kradus

PS3 support was ended with stormblood.

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Yes but the upgrade to 64 will be with ShB, for now it's still a game limited to ps3 specs.

I can't wait but I doubt I'll be ready in time for 5.0. I've been doing the mor dona part of the main story line.


https://i.postimg.cc/MZF1z6B5/2019-04-18.jpg


High Res: https://1drv.ms/u/s!ArXBYkP90eNAiEIOCB08gSEy7WxU

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Kind of makes me curious on how they'll handle ripping and re-rigging 2B's model, since it seems like they did so with noctis, though I know a friends said his looked sort of like an edited male miqo model.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. His cheeks also have a miqote roundness to them, if you ask me.

The probable case for how theyre handled is a mix of two things: Ripping the model and textures from the original content, but rebuild the skeleton using pre-existing skeletons in game.

From a pure time constraint point, pulling the models from other games seems to be a decent way to approach it IF the style is close enough. If the style is drastically different, then its guaranteed they reskinned something in game or made a whole new model from scratch thats in the same style as the game. From there, Id imagine theyd rebuild the rig or modify an existing one. I dont know or think you can import rigs from other games unless they share the same engine. As someone pointed out, they probably pulled Noctis's model and textures and dumbed it down to match FFXIV which works fine. They probably used pre-existing animations too (Actually I had the thought that some of Noctis's fighting might actually be some of GunBreaker animations. This close to the xpac, I doubt theyd reanimate very specific animations for this)

As for 2B, not sure if theyd import her cause while the styles are in the ballpark, the porportions arent. Her model would kinda stick out, IMO. For her, they might modify pre-existing models and make her. There are already assets in FFXIV that can be used across certain races (hairstyles, faces, etc) that could be used to closely resemble 2B without needing to rip her model from NA

I will keep hoping for male viera in the game and enjoying the fanart people have made of them.

A key selling point whenever I consider playing any game, especially mmorpgs is the amount of customization. I have no interest in playing either of the new races, but gender locking anything in any game especially an mmorpg In 2019 just seems ridiculous. genderlocking seems like one step below hero based characters with minimal customization. bring on the male viera and female hrothgar!

[Rolls up blasting Dr.Dre's "Let Me Ride" at maximum volume with the bass boosted to an obscene level]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/7891dd7e...xeqdo1_540.png
Just another day wearing these ears and rocking that makeshift look~

I'm wondering if there's some sort of algorithm to how armor--at least body armor--fits. I mean, of course there is--but how much work it would be to get the large amount of armor currently available (and otherwise) to fit on even a minimally modified human-shaped body? With the least modification on--as an example because it's the most likely route--a modified elezen body, they'd have to shorten cuff and collar lengths... would something like this be completely manual, or do they have some sort of internal dev tool to help something like this so it isn't entirely overwhelming? Aside from generically wanting male viera, I'm really interested in the work that would go into introducing them. I know it's extremely likely that nothing like this would happen, but if they did decide to put the male rabbits in I'd love to see some of the behind-the-scenes process, sort of like how we saw map-building went at fanfest. Right down to taking thousands of pictures of the ground.

No matter what it's a lot of work so I absolutely don't mind waiting a good, long while, just as long as it happens. (Also absolutely yes to expanding current customization options as well--Another reason why I don't mind a long wait. It's like ordering a custom-made piece of furniture or something, there are other customers on the waiting list and it'll take a while but it's worth it in the end.)

It's been a few days, so I dropped in and was glad to see the thread is still going. I'm disappointed we haven't heard anything official from the Producers or Yoshi-P regarding the feedback that's been given since Tokyo, but it makes me hopeful they are giving it serious consideration; "okay, what are our options if we choose to implement?" types of discussions in the background.

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Originally Posted by JmiAltoholic

It's been a few days, so I dropped in and was glad to see the thread is still going. I'm disappointed we haven't heard anything official from the Producers or Yoshi-P regarding the feedback that's been given since Tokyo, but it makes me hopeful they are giving it serious consideration; "okay, what are our options if we choose to implement?" types of discussions in the background.

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If they do end up addressing it, there's no way they would until a big liveletter or something similar. In the hypothetical scenario that they do give it a real chance/go back on the sex locks, there's no way they'd miss the chance to twist it in to an opportunity to build hype/sales to try and gain a lot of favor.

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Originally Posted by JmiAltoholic

It's been a few days, so I dropped in and was glad to see the thread is still going. I'm disappointed we haven't heard anything official from the Producers or Yoshi-P regarding the feedback that's been given since Tokyo, but it makes me hopeful they are giving it serious consideration; "okay, what are our options if we choose to implement?" types of discussions in the background.

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Well considering how busy they currently are there probably won't be any statement until sometime after shadowbringers is released, priorities. In addition to that, although it was said they would be looking at player feedback in regards to female Hrothgar and male Viera they still have to have their little meetings and discuss the player feedback they have been seeing. As always I will remain hopeful that both genders will be available sometime in the future and continue throwing my support behind both as I would really like to see both in the game.

Speaking of art i recall there being a zine idea for male viera going around.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Speaking of art i recall there being a zine idea for male viera going around.

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What's a zine?

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Originally Posted by Senn

What's a zine?

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Like an artbook, but for fanartist to display their work, and well more of a magazine.

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Originally Posted by Senn

What's a zine?

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Like an artbook, but for fanartist to display their work, and well more of a magazine.

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magazine itself is called Hare(M)
fan made magazine ,artist put there art of male viera in the book and it gets published for a little bit
pretty neat

So we're almost at a month since the announcement...
When are we going to get an update from the devs???

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Originally Posted by Duskane

magazine itself is called Hare(M)
fan made magazine ,artist put there art of male viera in the book and it gets published for a little bit
pretty neat

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Ahhhh I can't find it. When I google Hare(M) magazine, I get "urban harem magazine" and anime harem stuff.