Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

And what is this creative way people keep talking about that will keep a content challenging everytime you enter despite having experience at it? If you are referring to what Jynx said, see my response after.

Yea i guess everyone did agree that garuda is the right way so far.

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Pull the one good thing(concept) from abyssea for the sake of scaling diffuculty. Make it increase/decrease mob and boss levels based on the speed your running through the raid, also scale drops based on the difficulty rating you achieve. The faster you run the harder it gets but the better(more likely) your rewards.

In a mass currency farming system this would affect the amount dropped/person at the completion of the raid, for single item(mythril and what have you) it would affect rates scaling from ~1%@max time up to ~99%@20minute run, as a for instance. To take it just a little further it could be a token+ system where you get your currency(totem w/e) x1 everytime but you get a [i]chance[/] based on how high you got the dungeons diffuculty rating to get a second/third/fourth/etc.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Same can be said of speed runs really.

It's a shame the proliferation of the internet kind of works against the MMO genre, while you would think the free flow of information would be a good thing it leads to more challenges when designing content. Nothing will be perfect and no system can totally be made to test a individual players skill or if they just memorized a video and it's step by step instructions.

I still personally think something other than speed runs is the answer, even if it doesn't test skill either I just find that. Finding out what mobs you skip and what ones you zerg to death is not a fun way to run the dungeon I understand it creates alot of stress to do things properly but I want my dungeon runs to be fun and challenging. Speed runs are counter-productive in the "Fun" aspect for me at least.

I'm sure alot of people enjoy stretching themselves thin and seeing how fast they can do things, that in itself is a challenge I wont deny it. It's just not my idea of how we should be rewarding people, because it sucks to go into a dungeon with a odd-ball party setup manage to beat it and still get the short end of the stick because you didn't go in with the "A" team.

I think even having specific tasks *Let's say multiple tasks made for all sorts of different setups* that are optional give a way to reward people who go in with different kinds of teams but are still effective. While this is no way diminishes the effect of Youtubing the content I think it's a step in the right direction to reward a broader spectrum of players than just the Speed-demon teams.

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Agreed. While people will inevitably find a way to blast through something in the current version, there is much better ways for SE to hold back that inevitability than speed runs.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Now I'm officially depressed ; ;.

If it takes these really fast runs to win, then I am pretty much out.
1 -- I'm on during odd times and can not find enough people to go with consistently to be able to do it that quickly. Beat CC/AV: No problem. Do it in < 17 minutes... that's a problem. Even with content finder this will be problematic.

2 -- I don't like super-fast-paced-blow-things-up-action games. When did final fantasy become so focused on being fast and an action game?


Not giving up on FFXIV.. just giving up on content like this. Hopefully it won't be the theme for the majority of content such that I have nothing else to do....

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Sadly, this seems to be the direction for now, we'll see at 2.0. So far with the mass pull for links AoE xp pt stylings, all "EG" stuff so far, cept maybe hamlet, being built around "How fast can you do it" well there's not a whole lot of the old think while you fight, it's all becoming fast-twitch muscle memory content and memorize the patterns scripted enemies.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Sadly, this seems to be the direction for now, we'll see at 2.0. So far with the mass pull for links AoE xp pt stylings, all "EG" stuff so far, cept maybe hamlet, being built around "How fast can you do it" well there's not a whole lot of the old think while you fight, it's all becoming fast-twitch muscle memory content and memorize the patterns scripted enemies.

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Hamlet is basically FFXIV's take on Plants vs. Zombies. While it is fun and unique to the MMO genre in it's own right, it still feels more like a mini-game than anything. The thing that makes it even easier is that all three Hamlets work exactly the same as in patterns. The tank kills the NM's and kites the boss, crafter/gatherers do the same routine, and WHM's heal archers. Even the NM's pop the same way. First NM pops in a unique location, second comes into the gate, and the zombie pops in a unique location after all mobs are defeated.

Hamlets are really not the hard part of the quest. The seals have been dropping, only reason I don't have many seals is simply because I keep losing at /random. The main concern is using RNG in general when people have complained numerous times (including myself) in the relic quest. There is no equal playing ground with people. It is either you are lucky or you are not.

While I don't like the concept of speed runs personally. I would much rather accept having to do a super speed run (in the current version) over hundreds of meaningless AV runs with .01% drop chance. If this is true my outlook on this entire step has changed from sitting there for many mind numbing hours to changing to as best as we possibly can be for a higher drop. This step will probably be a factor on who does or doesn't get a relic because compared to the other steps it's more skill based then luck.

Hrm... All this talk about speedrunning, I feel the need to blurt out an idea.

I'd love to see a boss or dungeon that's based on an "anti-speedrun". In that, if you do it too fast, you're going to die. You literally need to take it slow, and be on the ball at all times because if you drop it you die. Like a long-lasting endurance battle, you can't just complete it by killing stuff ASAP, but you also can't simply stop killing stuff, you need to hold out for a good while.
I guess that would be what Hamlet Defense is like, now that I think about it (I haven't played it yet), and if that's true i'm likely to like it a lot. But- I'd like to see more stuff based on attrition wars.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

While I don't like the concept of speed runs personally. I would much rather accept having to do a super speed run (in the current version) over hundreds of meaningless AV runs with .01% drop chance. If this is true my outlook on this entire step has changed from sitting there for many mind numbing hours to changing to as best as we possibly can be for a higher drop. This step will probably be a factor on who does or doesn't get a relic because compared to the other steps it's more skill based then luck.

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It's not really based on skill if you think about it. Zerg the enemies as fast as you can. WHY must content be focused on speeding through it and luck? Come on SE... give us something hard. Ifrit, Moogle, and Garuda can still be hard with randoms sometimes and Hamlet is super easy. QUIT making everything a speed run!

I am pretty sure killing something faster than normal is skill based.... It takes precision, optimized gear, skill rotation, positioning etc.... I don't know where you people bitching that doing something incredibly fast and nearly flawless isn't skill based are coming from. What exactly is your definition of skill?

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Originally Posted by Kiara

To: Yoshida-san and the FF14 Team

Seeing the requirements for just opening up the Quest for the Relic Weapons (not even earning the final Relic), I have one plea:

* Please STOP relying on the "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" to use as a Time Sink to keep the players busy.

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Thank you!

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While I feel your pain (yet I don't really), I want relics too as the rest of us... new content will soon be over-shadowed by updates and even newer stuff. Your plee will fall on death ears. Making a kind of post that complains on the harsh efforts to make you play longer(even though you still do) anything done in game is to prolong the players to achieve a rewarding experience that fills them with a since of accomplishment and pride.

You and the (maybe) the hundreds of thousands of the rest of us want the same things and more. Make suggestions for the current system/ items and gear but we shouldn't act as we know better about managing an mmorpg and its content. It'll only get better as time goes by and more is available I'm sure. The longer it take for elitist to complete content and less likely they'll complain on how easy or how much ffxiv lack in content and replay value. Take care and don't forget your school work, your job, friends and family.

Anyone in this topic confirm 5chest 17min run?