Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by Valence

Isn't it always fun to have to painfully parse through a full party list with everybody full of buffs and debuffs in order to find the ONE debuff you're looking for in an incoming mechanic? Nisi style in TEA, etc.

You'll have your debuff vomit and you'll like it.

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All it does is incentivize raid callout "tools".

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I don't really feel like boss fights are a power struggle between us and them, but almost more of a stage play or something.

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There do exist some fights that actually feel like a struggle, so they can actually design fights like that. Unfortunately, it's mostly old fights or ultimate phases.

Nael phase in UCoB felt like you were actually fighting someone that wants you dead, Living Liquid in TEA as well, Nidhogg in DSR also felt like he wants to kill you, all very fun phases that incorporate environmental tells, boss tells, player markers and player debuffs.

Meanwhile, TOP does have quite a bit of debuff vomit, which would explain why it's had such mixed reviews.

Pheonix is another fight that feels like you are fighting a boss who is just vomitting mechanics at you actively trying to kill you not playing a stage play with

Though to be fair most of the coils bosses feels this way (I guess except maybe melusine), but coils barely feels like it belongs in this game anymore

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Originally Posted by Aravell

There do exist some fights that actually feel like a struggle, so they can actually design fights like that. Unfortunately, it's mostly old fights or ultimate phases.

Nael phase in UCoB felt like you were actually fighting someone that wants you dead, Living Liquid in TEA as well, Nidhogg in DSR also felt like he wants to kill you, all very fun phases that incorporate environmental tells, boss tells, player markers and player debuffs.

Meanwhile, TOP does have quite a bit of debuff vomit, which would explain why it's had such mixed reviews.

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Kenji Sudo was responsible for most of the really good fights of this type in ARR and HW and he left the dev team after designing UCoB. Seems like the ability to make good hectic fights that build on themselves rather than relying on bespoke DDR megamechanics gradually withered away to a couple times per expansion after he was gone.

https://i0.wp.com/gamerescape.com/wp...68%2C432&ssl=1

Debuff vomit mechanics have never been high in my list of well liked mechanics. I have to squint real hard to see those icons. Spotting another's mistake also becomes an issue because of that. They were fine when there weren't as many. At this point though I'm getting sick of it.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I really don’t like debuff check mechanics. I don’t see why those mechanics aren’t just given different types of telegraph indicators that communicate the same information in a much clearer way. I mean, I know the answer is “to make it harder” but it’s only harder my a smidge, and not in a fun way either. Making the challenge about squinting at a tiny icon to know what you need to do rather than some numbers overlaying your character is a really artificial way of adding difficulty.

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I'd put it in the same group of "difficulty" as reading Nael quotes to figure out the mechanic in the middle of UCoB, not fun at best and annoying at worst. Difficulty through bad UI isn't exactly high on the list of good mechanics.

...and very likely to just make people use 3rd party tools.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Pheonix is another fight that feels like you are fighting a boss who is just vomitting mechanics at you actively trying to kill you not playing a stage play with

Though to be fair most of the coils bosses feels this way (I guess except maybe melusine), but coils barely feels like it belongs in this game anymore

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Coil felt like their attempt at a WoW-style raid, something they completely discarded in Stormblood, when every fight just became a circular or square arena with a big bad in it.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Kinda related to the topic, but I want to see more fights that feel less like you are managing game pieces, and more like the boss is genuinely trying to kill the party -- like the feeling should less resolving a mechanic, and more surviving an onslaught.

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I wish that too. E4S felt great for that. It felt brutal. A few others did as well, especially in the past (Omega Pantokrator, etc).

Oh and Harrowing Hell >:3

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Originally Posted by Valence

I wish that too. E4S felt great for that. It felt brutal. A few others did as well, especially in the past (Omega Pantokrator, etc).

Oh and Harrowing Hell >:3

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E4S p3 alternating penta tumult and the big raid wide was an absolute slammer and I thematically loved the big + small titan combo. Harrowing Hell definitely plays along that tune and I love it.

I honestly think that the current design of debuff vomit that instantly wipes everyone when one person fails is aimed at reducing the importance of a good healer.

In E4S, the final bit with small and big Titan is very healing intensive with the Tumults and the Earthen Fury DoT. If people die to damage, it's very obviously the healers fault. Same with Harrowing Hell, it puts a lot of the responsibility on the healers to get their healing right, so people just tank LB it to ignore the problem.

Now, they just design fights so anyone can wipe the party entirely so the healer doesn't have to be made to feel bad.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

THey really do seem to have an aversion to fights that were an extreme challenge to the community. Hardly anything like A3s, A4s, A8s or Kefka.

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midas and gordias nearly killed the raid scene, so no, prob best to notdo that again.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

midas and gordias nearly killed the raid scene, so no, prob best to notdo that again.

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To be fair that was also because the raid scene was much smaller

If the P8 drama happened around gordias it would have done the same thing, there is just a “buffer” now so to speak because of how much bigger the game is

First thoughts on the benchmark on healers:

Sage seems to have a new attack. It doesn't look like an upgrade of anything already existing, so that's good news.

Astrologian has some sort of buff, but with the rework there's no way to know what to expect still.

White Mage either has a party buff or another heal. Woo...

Scholar also showcased a new attack which is AOE. If I'm being skeptical, it's possible it's an upgrade of Biolysis based on the visuals, which says nothing about Scholar and only indicates that presumably all healers will have their DOT upgrade to be AOE if that's true. If not, then that's a new attack for Scholar as well. EDIT: Upon further inspection, it might be whatever succeeds Broil IV. The visuals are closer to Broil spells than Biolysis. So still nothing as far as new info if that's the case. It does seem AOE, but it could just be because the target is larger.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Scholar also showcased a new attack which is AOE. If I'm being skeptical, it's possible it's an upgrade of Biolysis based on the visuals, which says nothing about Scholar and only indicates that presumably all healers will have their DOT upgrade to be AOE if that's true. If not, then that's a new attack for Scholar as well. EDIT: Upon further inspection, it might be whatever succeeds Broil IV. The visuals are closer to Broil spells than Biolysis. So still nothing as far as new info if that's the case. It does seem AOE, but it could just be because the target is larger.

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I haven't had a chance to see the trailer yet, but I'm going to cope and say that they're giving us Miasma II optimisation back.

That spell looked AOE chain more than anything else to me, I saw a broil cast go off and it wasn’t the same as that gear looking spell

The SCH casts broil at 4.13 it doesn’t look any different to broil 4 then at 4.35 there is the chain/gear ability that has a sound effect halfway between chain and biolysis

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That spell looked AOE chain more than anything else to me, I saw a broil cast go off and it wasn’t the same as that gear looking spell

The SCH casts broil at 4.13 it doesn’t look any different to broil 4 then at 4.35 there is the chain/gear ability that has a sound effect halfway between chain and biolysis

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Honestly, it's probably just a DoT upgrade. We're due for one by this time since EW upgraded filler and AoE, so this time will be upgrade to DoTs.

I'm praying that new SGE AoE attack isn't a Toxikon upgrade, at bare minimum please at least be a Eukrasian AoE DoT or something.

God if that chain looking attack and the new SGE skill are just an indication all healers are getting a DOT upgrade that makes their DOT’s AOE I actually probably will quit healing

That is probably the most insulting change I can imagine

AOE CHAIN STRATAGEM

PLEASE
ENJOY

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That spell looked AOE chain more than anything else to me, I saw a broil cast go off and it wasn’t the same as that gear looking spell

The SCH casts broil at 4.13 it doesn’t look any different to broil 4 then at 4.35 there is the chain/gear ability that has a sound effect halfway between chain and biolysis

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There are a lot of old animations being thrown around in the background, including attacks that will absolutely be getting replaced in DT. They do that a lot, it's just to fill the scene.

Also, I had a sinking feeling. It looks like Eos is hovering around SCH as if she were a buff effect rather than a pet. Maybe I'm just reading way too deep into things and I'm crying wolf, but I wonder if they might've finally axed her as a pet.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I'm praying that new SGE AoE attack isn't a Toxikon upgrade, at bare minimum please at least be a Eukrasian AoE DoT or something.

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Oh snap... I didn't even think of that. Well that just made me a lot less happy... I really hope that's not the case regarding Toxikon. The animation has way too much impact to be a DOT though, that much I'm confident about.

EDIT: Watching it back again, I think the animation is too different to Toxikon III. Especially how forceful the Sage is with them slamming down their hand. Maybe it's just copium though.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Also, I had a sinking feeling. It looks like Eos is hovering around SCH as if she were a buff effect rather than a pet. Maybe I'm just reading way too deep into things and I'm crying wolf, but I wonder if they might've finally axed her as a pet.

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Oh please no. I might quit if they remove the only pet job in the game.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Oh please no. I might quit if they remove the only pet job in the game.

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I think it might be a false alarm. I'm rewatching it a bunch, and it does look like Eos does fly behind Scholar to follow, it just for some reason looked like she was too close to Scholar's shoulder, like she was fixed to it or something.

Alrighty it looks like we got a more concrete date for the job trailer on May 16th. This may also be when the embargo for the media tour is lifted and we start getting all the details on the jobs as well.

Just gave the benchmark trailer a look. Outside not feeling happy with the character model (looking at you sausage finger and plastic kendoll texture lmao), I've only tried to squint hard to see healer's VFX and animation exclusively. Here's what I think of them so far:

1. First that comes into the screen was SGE. They're getting something that looks like Toxikon III? Lmao. That's definitely a GCD action. The reason Toxikon came to mind was because it's the only SGE action in the game where they let their nouliths fly over to close proximity at their enemies outside Mesotes when placed on an enemy.
2. Next is AST. The aesthetic makes me think it's going to be something that works like Horoscope? But that's also a GCD so I guess we'll just have to wait for the actual job action trailer.
3. Oh what's that? WHM gets a new GCD spell with flowery motif? Maybe that's Medica III with absolutely no relation to Lily gauge LMAO (please prove me wrong SE). This is giving me the Holy III EW trailer feel.
4. Last on the line was SCH. That is definitely an oGCD action. Perhaps an AoE Chain? Quite likely. The ending SFX though felt too impactful for a mere debuff that makes me think it might actually do damage or something along that line. One can hope, yeah? Absolutely not.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Oh what's that? WHM gets a new GCD spell with flowery motif? Maybe that's Medica III with absolutely no relation to Lily gauge LMAO (please prove me wrong SE). This is giving me the Holy III EW trailer feel.

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Ngl I did instantly thought "Medica III" because of the...glittery sounds, for lack of a better word. I hope it's a buff, but it just feels like a heal.

No Broil IV upgrade? I'm shocked

Only watched the once, but the WHM GCD absolutely screamed Medica III or Rapture II to me.

WHM screamed 'Lily spender that applies a Regen effect' to me, SE truly playing the 'try to make a Shielding Lily Spender so we aren't forced to overheal to prep Misery' challenge, difficulty: impossible

SGE at least looks like it has an attack of some kind, but as others say, if it's Toxikon 3 then it's dead on arrival

SCH looks like an upgrade of Chain to me, or perhaps a move that 'is combo'd off of Chain' in the same way that Tilliana comes after Tech Step, or Starfall Dance after Devilment

AST I think is entirely impossible to say because of the rework, no idea what's going on with that job

Overall, not much to go off of/not much to get excited about, but it is only one animation we're looking at. We only saw Holy Sheltron for PLD in the EW benchmark, and then it turned out it had the Blade combo, so who knows what they're 'hiding' as a big reveal for the job action trailer (I will not be getting my hopes up though)

^we are hiding 3 new big heals

Yeh, it could be that WHM is getting Quake, Flood and Tornado, or its equally possible that it will be getting Afflatus Serendipity, Afflatus Salvation and a second charge of Benediction, without media tour info the benchmark 'reveals' don't do much for me, because I don't care for the VFX of the skill, I care about it's CD, effect, MP cost, etc. It's possible that SGE gets a new attack skill as shown, sure, but if it's a 2min CD it doesn't really 'fix' anything, does it?

I am just going to quickly post a message to mark these pages filled with speculations for quick access when job trailers/media tour arrives. Just to gauge expectations vs reality.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

^we are hiding 3 new big heals

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As if healers need more healing cooldowns :D

I think I remember them saying that they want us to use more of our GCD healing but we got more healing oGCDs so we have even less reasons to do GCD heals.

I'm gonna be carefully optimistic with what its shown in the benchmark for Sge "toxikon 3" because Toxikon, Phlegma and Dosis are upgraded via the same trait but what we saw is the usual dosis and phlegma animations with the toxikon 3 as new animation which suggest that is its own standalone button. I hope that the new sch action is not just "aoe chain" and is something new because they could have done that with deployment tactics in a more elegant way.

The white mage spell is almost assuredly “Medica III.” The caster is using the same low level healing spell cast animation followed by Medica’s slight raise of the rod right after.

And it’s for similar reasons that I do not think Sage’s attack is “Toxikon III.” The caster’s movements do not match Toxikon II’s casting animation in the slightest, and there’s too much weight to the animation. What’s interesting and possibly a little unnerving is the animation has a lot more similarities with Eukrasian Diagnosis. The cast begins with the same raising of the arm before the sage brings their hand down to the ground, and the nouliths spinning above the target is strikingly similar to Eukrasian Diagnosis’ barrier application. If anything, it looks more like Diagnosis is being augmented into an attack. If I felt FFXIV had the capacity to be more creative, I’d almost wager that it could be a “de-barrier” attack, one you use to remove barriers from enemies.

Plot twist, it's Eukrasian Dyskrasia, which turns it into a ground target aoe nuke/dot

Eukrasian dyskrasia creating an AOE DOT is about the only one I’d be fine with because it works with eukrasia

Ah yes, my favorite spell: “Good Bad”

It could be the Eukrasian version of a new attack spell.

Now that people mentioned it, it might be Eukrasia related. (see the VFX motif similarities of Eukrasia, E.Diagnosis, & E.Prognosis)

Healers in ultimate you say?
Hold my clown nose and wig - Warrior mains

https://youtu.be/k65bhdogQKw

I dont think its the eukrasian version of another attack, if you see the trailer at 2:02 you can see how the action before the new attack is dosis and immediatly after the animation ends the nouliths go flying to perform the new attack