I'm checking forums and see people still go on with this discussion, lol. So cute.
I have been told repeatedly that no WAR can do coil, and been refused couple of times even from my FC mates + whole argument about not helping.
Funny enough, we got to turn 4 in 2 weeks from entering coil with a semi-static and people who keep D/C-ing a lot, with a WAR & a PLD.
Actually, just yesterday, I tanked snake upto 5th stack as a WAR. Even the healer was surprised that we could go through; guess what? We got better :)
Mind you, I'm only wearing full-DL and 1 Hero's fending ring. No AF2 or Allagan pieces.
The fact is, coil was tuned with WAR tanks in mind, which clearly explains the oversight of PLD rotating their CDs.
Denying people to enjoy playing a "game" in a class they love for lame excuses & just to get "gear", is pretty pathetic.
I have to say also, I find it sad that people insist on taking 2 x BRD on ADS; lazy MNKs & other jobs with silence refuses to learn their job is just ironic considering they delude themselves they are "hardcore" yet ignorant on how to maximize the potential of their jobs.
But then again, most BRDs I have been with can't seem to keep a simple job of maintaining a silence cycle...
All in all, this is irrelevant, soon enough WARs are getting a buff. However, the situation will remain the same where people still do FFXI mentality and bring 2 x or 3 x jobs to "have it easy", rather than actually do it properly & challenge themselves.
At least this is how I like to play, and I realize everyone have their own reasons to play.
Just don't make up BS that X Job can't do Y, because it isn't.
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11-05-2013, 05:58 PMrexie
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11-05-2013, 06:24 PMLeiron
I would like to see you complete BC with War/War
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11-05-2013, 08:12 PMPhreakClass stacking is nothing new. When it comes to pushing content if a class performs better/requires less effort/trivializes an encounter mechanic(s) + returns equal or greater gains over another class, it will be 'stacked'.Quote:
Originally Posted by rexie
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11-05-2013, 09:57 PMDonkeyPoohUm yea I know that, but can the PLD take out any mob it requires Hallowed Ground on in 10 secs? No. TBH EVERY class/job is carried by a healer. Its the whole point of the role :P. You can't really compare a PLD to a WAR in nothing but math. Which plays an important role its not a extremely large portion of the equation that determines success or not. You would have to compare one PLDs party to a WARs party to really get down to the overall differences in the "PLD vs WAR"... war lol. Which I fail to understand to begin with. I am starting to think people just want WAR to be as easy as PLD. Does anyone know if this arguement has tainted the JP forums as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Illya
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11-05-2013, 10:33 PMYagrush
WAR depends much more in the healer than a PLD, and this can be seen by the core of the design of Warriors. PLD's eHP comes from their direct damage mitigation, no strings attached, they just chop a chunk of the damage, meaning that the Healer will have less spiky HP to work with when healing. While WARs recieve most of the damage unmitigated, and their eHP comes from their extra HP and healing bonus, however this eHP only reaches its potential with the healing bonus. What does thi mean? It requires the Healer's full atention to maximize a WAR's eHP, because if you don't make use of the healing bonus, the Warrior essentially only haves around 2k HP extra than a PLD and call it their "equalizer" in terms of comparing mitigation. The extra HP means nothing if the Healer isn't keeping up, while the PLD's mitigation works independently from the Healer.
In other words, PLD's mitigation is independent, WAR's mitigation includes the healer in the formula for the mitigation, automatically making them more dependant on them. -
11-05-2013, 10:52 PMSyon
When did anyone say war CAN'T do coil? seriously, please give me the link......... this is getting boring, ppl's repeating from page ONE that the problem is pld being able to do coil BETTER than war (need more caps?). Another thing, ppl say wars are carryed by the whm simply because there's nothing a war can do to make whm's job easyer and if anyone here actually played war they'd see it well before coil xD But obviously i'm a bad war and you guys rock so much that you can defeat math, game rules and any kind of logic..
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11-05-2013, 11:48 PMHanabira
If healers are carrying tanks through coil.. arent tanks carrying healers.. and dps carrying everyone and EVERYONE CARRIES EVERYONE.. sheesh, its a party, you cant beat any meaningful content without all 3.
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11-06-2013, 12:47 AMBamLayceWhen you play with people who know how to play their respective class and role, there is no carrying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
Titan for example.What it really comes down to is mitigating those table flips, in which WAR has reliable skills to help out the healer.
#1 Timing Inner Beast with Table flip can mitigate up to 75% of the damage on a crit. Having the WAR topped off is all the healer needs to do which is not carry, its doing their job.
#2 Knowing the fight, and the static rotation Titan uses
#3 Prepping yourself with one of your not-so-mitigating cooldowns like featherfoot/awareness/Convalescence before each table flip.
People aim to put warrior down so much, and its great! Once they inevitably get buffed due to all the whining, anyone who toughed through it and learned to really play it well will have that much more of an edge! -
11-06-2013, 01:43 AMKitruUnless you're only getting hit for 3200 with Mountain Buster (that's what I get hit for on my *PLD*; WAR takes closer to 4-4.5k), Inner Beast isn't going to mitigate 75% of the damage on a crit. On top of that, this is counting a Berserked IB, which you're going to have once every 3 Mountain Busters. You can normally expect to get 25-30% of the MB with an Inner Beast. Honestly, you're generally better off using it after Rock Buster rather than Mountain Buster so that you're topped off for MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by BamLayce
Doesn't actually help you survive the big hits all that much. Tanks barely need to know the rotation at all because they barely have to dodge anything. The only thing you have to worry about is dodging the circle bombs.Quote:
#2 Knowing the fight, and the static rotation Titan uses
None of which are going to do anything reliable for Mountain Buster. Throwing up Flash right before Mountain Buster is going to do just as much as Featherfoot, Conv is only really going to help recover from MB (which means that it won't help you survive it unless you've got a SCH shielding you up with Adloq before it), and Awareness only helps with the autoattacks since MB itself can't crit.Quote:
#3 Prepping yourself with one of your not-so-mitigating cooldowns like featherfoot/awareness/Convalescence before each table flip.
The strongest of the WAR CDs is weaker than the weakest of the PLD CDs. On top of that, WAR *still* requires more external healing, just on a passive basis. Anyone that claims that their healers don't have to work harder to keep a WAR alive than they do to keep a PLD alive is simply lying. It only gets worse when you get to coil because the damage ramps up heavily when you get there, meaning that the WAR self heals mean less and PLD mitigation means more, especially those CDs.
Any WAR that has progressed through coil didn't do it through their own skill; they got there because they've had healers that were absolutely friggin' amazing. No amount of WAR skill can close the gap when you're getting hit as hard as Caduceus with 5 stacks or dealing with the ADS with Slashing resist. At that point, you're simply shifting more work onto the healers by not running as a PLD and, in coil, it ends up being a *lot* more work.
The people that put WAR down so much are simply being realistic about its capabilities rather than living in a fantasy land where they can always crit and have buffs active and where 2.4k is 75% of 4k. There comes a point where no amount of player skill can make up the difference, and the sad truth of the matter is that you hit that point as early as Titan. I love playing WAR, but I'm realistic about what it can do and what it *can't* do is outperform or even equal PLD on anything that isn't trivial content.Quote:
People aim to put warrior down so much, and its great! Once they inevitably get buffed due to all the whining, anyone who toughed through it and learned to really play it well will have that much more of an edge!
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11-06-2013, 03:57 AMBamLayce
I can't really argue with your logic, but I only used Titan as an example because by now, anyone who's interested in learning more about their class has done this primal encounter and can relate to it better than BC.
I'll admit, healing/playing a WAR is much harder in any case, and im not arguing that its better than PLD. A WAR played optimally will still not be on par with a PLD's mitigation, but WARs have pros to PLD's cons, and vice versa like snap threat generation & multiple mob tanking. I'm not sure if you saw my earlier point that lead to this but I have been considering WAR the Off Tank of BC. Even in calling it an offtank, the only Off Tanking it does is in T4 since it cant really stand up to 2 dreads for more than a couple of seconds. I do up to Turn 5 every week in less than 1h30min as war and although it was harder on the healers a month ago, it has made them better that they really feel confident having a WAR OT to take down Twintania.