What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

Has anyone who submitted the Elpis moon as a bug? It being rejected won't mean anything but if it's accepted as a bug, then we know for sure whether it was intentional.

Also I'm looking for interviews in regards to the Endwalker story if anyone has them. I can't remember which one Yoshi P was talking about the changes in Endwalker but if anyone who collects them has them I would be grateful.

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It is not a bug. There was always a moon there and there is a moon there after it sundered.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Etheirys#Moon

From what I understand from this description. The moon has always been there wherein hydaelyn created Mare Lamentorum, an artificial satellite, to imprison zodiark as well as be an escape ship after the sundering.

Edit: But yea it can leave for different translation so hopefully in the future they could clarify it further to the point that there can be no doubt about it.

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Originally Posted by Garet

It is not a bug. There was always a moon there and there is a moon there after it sundered.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Etheirys#Moon

From what I understand from this description. The moon has always been there wherein hydaelyn created Mare Lamentorum, an artificial satellite, to imprison zodiark as well as be an escape ship.

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All it says is it was made around the time of the sundering. That's an extremely vague range of potential times.

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

All it says is it was made around the time of the sundering. That's an extremely vague range of potential times.

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Agree. My edit did not make it to your reply but it indeed has vagueness to it. So hopefully they do clarify it further. Maybe in 6.1 beyond when we get the beast tribe quest there etc. We will get more background and history that will make things more clear.

Edit: Maybe it is a different moon if the silver moon is indeed wholly created by Hydaleyn after the sundering. Could be the moon in Elpis disappeared along with the original unsundered world after the sundering and hydaelyn had to create another one where Mare Lamentorum can be establish to imprison zodiark etc. Hopefully we do get more background in the future.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Not everyone is dying. People outside of eorzea are still untouched by Black Rose. Even in Eorzea itself, there are still people living, only in bad conditions. People who doesn't know about the plan, doesn't know about the WoL, people who were just born into that world and tried their best just to survive, people who rightfully question the plan; all of them most likely doesn't want to be erased from existence.

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The implication that I get is they weren't erased from existence, only a separate timeline was created. That's why the Exarch remained.

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Funny that even with midgarsomr waking up, with what EW revealed about meteion, that timeline is still doomed anyway.

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The people, maybe, not the timeline.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Zodiark wasn't subverted, because nothing became of him.

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That's not how it has to work. In this case, the subversion is in the role of Zodiark, challenging the audience's notion of seeing Zodiark as the source of evil due to the Ascians' deeds, when in truth, Zodiark was a tool from the start, which can be used for good or evil, and can be misused with bad outcome, even to the user.

Nothing actually has to become of Zodiark other than being shown for what he truly is all along. Simply showing his actual role that slightly differs than the people's expectation (but still makes sense) is enough of a subversion. And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a misuse.

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Originally Posted by linayar

The implication that I get is they weren't erased from existence, only a separate timeline was created. That's why the Exarch remained.

The people, maybe, not the timeline.

That's not how it has to work. In this case, the subversion is in the role of Zodiark, challenging the audience's notion of seeing Zodiark as the source of evil due to the Ascians' deeds, when in truth, Zodiark was a tool from the start, which can be used for good or evil, and can be misused with bad outcome, even to the user.

Nothing actually has to become of Zodiark other than being shown for what he truly is all along. Simply showing his actual role that slightly differs than the people's expectation (but still makes sense) is enough of a subversion. And just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a misuse.

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I think the problem here lies in the fact he is one of the two main beings of the arc, and he was given incredibly little screentime. Not to mention yes, since 1.0 he has been painted as this evil thing, now we learn he is essentially a tool….but they in the end have him used for evil deeds,and then 10 minutes after defeating this major built up entity you’re playing dress up with rabbits. I think that considering enough people have spoken out about there’s a bit of a fault there. As far as the timeline goes, it wasn’t erased cuz lul plot armor, but it was a possibility that they knew of and still went along with anyways and that’s all that really matters in the end.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the problem here lies in the fact he is one of the two main beings of the arc, and he was given incredibly little screentime. Not to mention yes, since 1.0 he has been painted as this evil thing, now we learn he is essentially a tool….but they in the end have him used for evil deeds,and then 10 minutes after defeating this major built up entity you’re playing dress up with rabbits. I think that considering enough people have spoken out about there’s a bit of a fault there. As far as the timeline goes, it wasn’t erased cuz lul plot armor, but it was a possibility that they knew of and still went along with anyways and that’s all that really matters in the end.

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I think it's fine if people didn't like how it turned out for Zodiark, but I also think it is still a proper use of subversion, especially with how they tied the end with the past action of Zodiark's final user, Fandaniel.

In terms of placing it before the Loporrit arc, it may be jarring to some, but I personally think it's a welcome break from what came before and what will come after.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I think it's fine if people didn't like how it turned out for Zodiark, but I also think it is still a proper use of subversion, especially with how they tied the end with the past action of Zodiark's final user, Fandaniel.

In terms of placing it before the Loporrit arc, it may be jarring to some, but I personally think it's a welcome break from what came before and what will come after.

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In my experience subversion has typically been used with a somewhat positive connotation but it can be both sure. I think someone had a fairly good analogy with the GoT season 8 thing. Was it a subversion? Sure. Was it anything objectively good? Not at all lol. I think there’s a point where too much subversion is bad and i think that’s a lot of what hurt Endwalker imo. As far as the loporrits go, i would 100% agree with you if it wasn’t for that fact we had numerous breaks even during the apocalypse itself. Lunch dates,coffee dates, 1 on 1 time dates, burger dates etc etc. It felt absolutely jarring to go from defeating what was the first of the two main deities of this entire game’s storyline(10 years worth) to just 10 minutes later go and play carrot collector, dress up etc. It just really downplayed the events for me and made me question what genre of the game i’m playing. Am i playing an rpg or a slice of life anime with haha’s everywhere.

I think subversion is being generous as it typically means that it leads to an interesting outcome.

If it is subversion, I think it could reasonably called "attempted subversion", as I do not think it succeeds in leading to an interesting outcome, while falling victim to many tropes... not least of which is the beneficial scantily clad female in a halo of assumed righteousness.

-Of course that is just one of many opinions being expressed.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think someone had a fairly good analogy with the GoT season 8 thing.

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I'm not sure it needs to be said but just in case.

GoT is an unfinished book. What the TV series did finalized the series of its own accord. I believe George R.R. Martin is even on record stating the direction they took is not the one he intended.

It's probably better that way anyways. The books are really good reads if anyone fancies themselves a fantasy/politics fanatic. An ending like that in novel format would really disappoint a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I think subversion is being generous as it typically means that it leads to an interesting outcome.

If it is subversion, I think it could reasonably called "attempted subversion", as I do not think it succeeds in leading to an interesting outcome, while falling victim to many tropes... not least of which is the beneficial scantily clad female in a halo of assumed righteousness.

-Of course that is just one of many opinions being expressed.

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Scantily clad? You referring to Venat? She is fully robed up until the end lol. If fully robed women are scantily clad for you wonder what women in bikinis or sport bra is? Naked? lolz. Guess seeing as the other ancients are wearing the same robes as Venat that we should also call emet and hythlo scantily clad too :)