Thank you for the awesome signature. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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10-03-2021, 03:33 PMAnienai
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10-03-2021, 03:57 PMSturmChurroTo an extent sure, but the leave button is there for a reason. If a run for some ARR dungeon is taking that long, it's usually best to just leave it. Kick is there too, but when you are the odd one out, that kick probably isn't going to go through. I've softened a lot on the old stances I used to have years ago, and I generally just roll my eyes and keep going except for extremes like that case, but I very rarely use the chat function to vent, and when I do I'm very subdued. I have shared some screenshots here and there of some of the interactions I've had in this thread, but they really are actually very rare. I've have had very few interactions of that sort in the grand scheme. If you are thinking about venting something out in chat, sometimes it's best to just backspace the whole thing, rather than make the run take even longer with a potential argument taking place. It probably wouldn't be worth the headache anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
Nah.. something is going really wrong, if a run in a dungeon like that - any dungeon really - is taking an hour. That's just plain ridiculous. -
10-03-2021, 04:41 PMFrizzeHonestly, i thought you probly already knew everything i was typing. Ive seen your name enough times over the years on these forums, and you arent in my mental database of "problem posters". I mostly typed that incase anyone newer happened to have been reading to try and give them the right perspective on a topic the game doesnt teach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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10-03-2021, 06:54 PMNekaru_Infitima
Queued for Manor.
I main SMN. I'm better with DPS, somewhat good with healer. Tanking not so much, but MAR was the last one I haven't gotten to 30.
I''m still new to tanking as I stated the start of the Manor but due to Blue spells, have done the dungeon over 50 times, so I said I knew the dungeon.
First hallways, fine, got stunned when the skill to interrupt didn't work, but again new to tanking. We get to the first boss, Black Mage who keeps running ahead attacks her before I could even get in the room to start the attack.
After the boss I ask the BLM can they stop running ahead and attacking things, that I'm new to tanking and and was about to do it myself. (BLM was the only not-sprout.)
Healer speaks up who is a sprout, and says "You don't even have your job stone" (umm yeah? It's called going back and training other classes)
Then states "You're supposed to stun them first." To which I stated I said I was new, and still learning the rotation. All I asked was don't run ahead.
So then it was back and forth, I pointed out they were a sprout, and then they go off on how this was their 17th character running MSQ, whatever.
I left and took the penalty, just pettiness for merely asking not to run ahead so I can do the job proper. -
10-03-2021, 09:06 PMKaoru_NagisaSpent an hour on a target dummy practicing once I hit 80 and could do the full rotation, yes. Plus the practice at it through doing trusts for leveling + MSQ. Still keeps scrambling me sometimes, as I'm in the stage where I have to focus on my hotbars rather than muscle memory - so when mechanics happen and I have to take my eyes off my hotbar, it tends to scramble me up due to timing windows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asari5
Part of why I've usually been OTing. I may be intimately familiar with how to play the tank role overall, but PLD still being in the "uncomfy" stage for me makes me not want to screw up while MTing; but since tanks like to not use cooldowns for TBs anymore apparently?? I've had to pick it up a few times.
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On that note, a run I did while on DNC rather than PLD: landed in WoD to three tanks who just all wanted to be MT, and yet none of them knew basic tank practices. Spinning the Angry Mango was the least of our problems. Managed a near wipe on the adds, the ones between Mango and dragon - in all the years since that came out, I don't think I've ever seen that set of adds go so badly.
Then ofc no one pulled dragon to the far end against the wall, so we had minimal room to move around. No one got poison puddles, people were getting stuck in ice, a couple people died from not passing the dragonfly tether around...
And then one of the tanks pulled the Atomos early, which caused a wipe. Yes, we wiped on Atomos.
No idea how the rest of the run went, as by that point I'd just kind of had enough - and I wasn't the only one, as one of our healers dropped out first. Some stuff just isn't worth trying to stick it out. -
10-04-2021, 12:54 AMAvatreI hate when the dragon is tanked in the middle. It leaves so little space for maneuvering instead of taking it to the edge and giving almost the entire area to move around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa
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10-04-2021, 01:15 AMUrsa_VonfiebrydI called them deadweight for not accepting the raise that apparently didnt go off. I usually save bole for healers and give the other two to any other role. And I got a lot of boles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonfish
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10-04-2021, 01:16 AMElissar
If you are a healer and you try to dictate how your tank should play by using rescue, you are an idiot.
For the first time i had this experience at Stone Vigil (normal mode), i'm starting to tank as a PLD (main tank is DRK) and a infantile healer was trying to dictate when/how should i move by using Rescue while i still had my skills on CD. I don't need to say that we wiped at least one time because he didn't keep his heals up. I left closer to the final boss.
Please, don't do that. Respect your tank. -
10-04-2021, 01:16 AMnebby00Same, I remember a whole alliance being wiped out during one run I had done when I tried tanking in Crystal DC. One of the other alliance tanks I remembered saying "This isn't ARR, don't tank it so far off". He provoked off of me and brought it to the middle... where everyone nearly died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatre
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10-04-2021, 03:15 AMEgilTheStressedMage
Got Amaurot as PLD. All three other players thought it'd be a good idea to drop the meteors on the very edge of First Beast, or try their hardest to do so. Healer died. I left as soon as I revived. And no, nobody was new, and forgetting how that mechanic works to me is like forgetting how to sit down.
I'm over this level of incompetency and will have zero part of it. -
10-04-2021, 07:18 AMCubsbane
Here's how World of Darkness goes as tank, almost every time:
1. Try to main tank (except for Cerb, unless I'm C tank), because I know where to stand for each boss, which isn't exactly special but at least I can guarantee the boss won't be cleaving everyone.
2. Another tank does not take stance off.
3. Normally I'd just let them have it, but they're standing off to the side, so I Provoke it back.
4. Eventually they get lead enmity again.
5. They die.
6. ok.
I sometimes try to helpfully pop up in alliance chat like, hey if not main tank keep stance off, if you want to main tank make sure you're standing in the right place. It usually does not help. (I say it for the small percent of times where someone goes "o sorry, didn't realize".)
The DPS and healer I got yesterday in Amdapor Keep when doing roulettes with a friend, though... That was the fastest I've ever gone through that. I'd tank for you two anytime. Call me. -
10-04-2021, 09:36 AMMilkieTeaI’ve only ever used a rescue when absolutely necessary. Fun story: has a tank who was waffling in the beginning of Wanderer’s Palace. Got noticed by the huge Tonberry in the beginning and refused to move (parked where they were.) Me and the two other DPS where all the way at the end of the hallway jumping but he didn’t seem to notice. So I typed in chat “get away from Tonberry.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Elissar
Still didn’t move, so I used rescue. They didn’t say anything but I guess they assumed I wanted bigger pulls because they then proceeded to go W2W. At least in doing this they avoided the huge Tonberries very well! -
10-04-2021, 01:04 PMRitsukoSonodaAbout the only times I can recall getting rescue used on me as a tank were when the healer either lost the game of chicken because I was waiting till the last moment to step out of an AoE marker or they didn't realize I was standing in a super tiny safe spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkieTea
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10-04-2021, 02:04 PMRitsukoSonodaWell a female Miqo'te is closer to my physical size and build than any of the current male options so... >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoPuni
I also like cute things...
And women's clothing feels so much softer and cozier...
And I should probably stop before people start getting weird images in their head... -
10-04-2021, 03:05 PMAlyaNimfaProbably as many playing male characters that are really females irl.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoPuni
Lets stay on topic though, I'd don't need to prove my gender to anyone here, and no I wont be your girlfriend. -
10-04-2021, 03:25 PMFyrebrand
This doesn't involve Duty Finder, but I feel like it still belongs here...
Somebody ran up to me, froze for a moment, then turned around in that special way that you can just tell they are checking you out, lol. I decide to stay put and let them have a look, and a moment later they send me a Tell: "Where'd you get that xmog?"
I am not sure what piece they're referring to, so I ask for clarification. They answer something like "The one you're wearing. The Greek." I clue in that they must be referring to the Republican Mendicus's Chiton, so I tell them I got it from PvP.
Them: "Oh, guess I'd better do PvP then."
Me: "It doesn't take much, I was able to get it after just a few Roulettes."
Them: "I don't know what roulette is, but thanks."
This was in Ishgard. :eek: -
10-04-2021, 04:10 PMAlyaNimfaThat's really cute and cool. Yes there are plenty of clueless new people around, it's so great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
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10-04-2021, 05:57 PMFrizze
Its completely possible/reasonable that someone could play the MSQ long enough to reach Ishgard without unlocking PvP and looking into the rewards that can be earned there.
It boggles the mind that someone could play that long and not yet figure out "what roulette is". A partial story skipper on their first or second day maybe? I no longer know what to think. Thats enough for today. -
10-04-2021, 06:41 PMYuella
I've seen someone who didn't know what roulette was until he reached the level 47-49 msq jump and he didn't have the level. He asked how to get the exp to get to level 49 and that's the first time he heard about roulette. if you're in a preferred server, it's possible to get to HW MSQ without knowing about roulette.
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10-04-2021, 06:53 PMEzekielBook
I know what Roulettes are, but I managed to stick with the MSQ (and generally a bunch of FATEs) that I haven't needed to do one for my main job, and have only started to do them as an RDM to try and equalize my level.
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10-04-2021, 09:08 PMKaoru_NagisaRight, well, think we can mark this off as a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoPuni
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Do Trusts count for DF stories? Doesn't matter, telling one anyway.
So I've been almost exclusively doing Trusts for 4-man stuff on my alt, and I've learned quite a lot about how they work through the consistent trial and error. It's fun to see how much they can really do and how far you can push when it comes to pull size - and funnily enough, they can handle large pulls really easily despite the lack of AoE.
So we all remember that one huge pull in Anamnesis Anyder, right? The one from the second boss all the way to the door to the last boss?
Yeah. I tested how much of that they could manage and... surprisingly, they could do it. By the skin of our teeth and with one res on Thancred (because that man doesn't know how to use Superbolide apparently, which I know he has, as he gave me a heart attack with it once during Amaurot), but like.. we managed it. Granted, we managed it on the second attempt after all of the extra stuff had spawned from the crystal tube thingies, but hey.
If I have one complaint about Trusts that doesn't involve the time they take to finish a dungeon compared to a semi-competent DF group, it's that we don't have an Engage button like squadrons. Having to face pull even the bosses or first set of mobs is a little tiring. -
10-05-2021, 02:03 AMNishira
If Trusts don’t have an engage button Kaoru, do they not have a disengage button either? Or are they a bit smarter about not standing in oozing puddles like squadrons happily do if left to their own devices?
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10-05-2021, 03:36 AMAlyaNimfaHe really is, and a crap one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa
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10-05-2021, 05:40 AMKaoru_NagisaThey have much better AI than squadrons do, far better; they're programmed to move out of AoEs and perform mechanics. Unfortunately they won't attack or heal while moving, and they seem to prioritize healing you over healing your Trust tank... which is usually how the wipes happen when you're forced to face/ranged pull while going on DPS, lol. <.<;Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishira
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10-05-2021, 06:07 AMRitsukoSonodaMoving out of AoEs already makes them smarter than alot of players... Don't make them too smart otherwise they'll gain sentience and take over... >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa
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10-05-2021, 06:15 AMKaoru_NagisaSE knows that if they make them perform too well, that a lot of people - good players and bad players alike - would probably end up abandoning 4-man dungeons with other people altogether. The best we can really hope for is some tailoring to improve on what they can already do, as well as a couple extra tools (like an Engage button) to make using them just a little more user friendly without making them completely replace real people.Quote:
Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda
That said, even if they aren't as fast as a semi-competent DF group, I admittedly am having a ton of fun with Trusts and am glad they'll continue to be utilized for the MSQ going forward. The more runs I do with them, the better I understand the limits of their capabilities as well; sciencing with their viability is enjoyable! -
10-05-2021, 06:36 AMNishira
Thank you for your response Kaoru :) That’s good to know, I’m really curious about Trusts! And I guess it is an improvement over Cecily… I’m terrified of doing dungeons with her :D
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10-05-2021, 07:02 AMKatie_KittySeriously, what a weirdo to even ask that question. Nobody here wants to date them anyway so maybe if that's what they're after they should go outside into the real world instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlyaNimfa
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10-05-2021, 08:01 AMKaoru_Nagisa'Course! Squadrons are a bit faster if you stack DPS and go on healer to keep their idiot selves alive, but Trusts are a lot less of a headache usually - even if you're pushing them beyond what they're initially programmed for (small pulls with bare minimum assistance from you).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishira
I actually feel pretty accomplished whenever we manage to pull off the standard pull sizes that most competent DF groups can do in their sleep, and the worst experiences I've had with them have usually just been poor prioritizing on the healer's part (either they'll focus you for heals while letting Thancred/G'raha eat dirt, or they'll be moving out of AoEs in a tight corridor and won't heal before/while moving).
If you aren't super pressed about their speed always being worse than a good DF group, they're fairly enjoyable to run with - plus make farming for a specific loot drop a lot easier. I'm actually planning to try spending a couple days closer to EW launch leveling them up on my main here, just so I can farm for the Paglth'an tank set on him so it's ready for when I can fantasia to a proper male rabbit.
I'll leave a lengthier dissertation I did over on reddit about Trust viability and performance across the three roles below, in case it'll help you (or anyone else):
I think they're arguably the worst experience on tank, despite seeming designed for it otherwise. Especially while leveling, you are more or less limited to single pulls with some rare occasional doubles if your gear is good and up to date.
The reason for this is, I think, due to the way they're tuned - they seem to be tuned around the minimum ilevel in terms of "power", so while your gear may be able to handle it, their own "stats" don't seem to be on the same level at times. I noticed this during Heroes' Gauntlet where I, as a DNC in basic Exarchic gear, had more HP than Thancred.
On healer, it's a little iffy. You can more easily force big pulls, but because Thancred or G'raha will rarely use their own cooldowns (which they have, apparently! I saw Thancred use Nebula once. Once.), and your DPS are single targeting, you have to babysit a lot more and blow more heals than you normally would in a semi-competent DF group.
DPS is certainly the easiest in terms of moving faster, as you have freedom to AoE - which does speed things up significantly, despite your group not attacking during mechanics or your fellow DPS not AoEing as well. I feel like it's the most... complicated? to pull on though.
Because of Thancred following behind you despite being the tank, you have to force pulls, obviously. Sometimes this can be difficult, especially if the next group is super far away. Even ranged pulling on DNC can be tough, because you can easily get your face eaten while trying to drag them back to your tank; and he also tends to be slow to gain aggro on everything. Whereas healers can at least heal themselves while performing the same sort of pulls, a DPS can easily die if he isn't fast enough to move to you or grab anything.
Which, in turn, can cause him to die since your healer is trying to heal you first. I've had barely a couple scratches from pulling an extra mob set, only for Alphinaud to be trying to heal me while Thancred's HP is melting.
In either healer or DPS event, though, it doesn't help that they seem allergic to using their invuln. :| And yes, they do have one! Thancred used Superbolide during a large pull in Amaurot... after he'd already gotten a Galvanize thrown on him. Scared the crap out of me, to say the least.
... But to make a large wall of text shorter: you actually can big pull on healer and DPS pretty often! It's just tricky sometimes, and may lead to a couple of wipes depending on how it's pulled or where the tank stops at.
They do get better once you get out of the leveling cycle, though. I was doing standard big pulls in Matoya's Relict with little issue and no uses of Clemency, Alphinaud didn't worry me a bit there.
I also just got done with Paglth'an, where we managed even that rough pull right before Lunar Bahamut. So they're certainly able to handle it! Maybe by the skin of the party's teeth, but hey! -
10-05-2021, 08:12 AMNishira
Yeah for the final GC rank I healed my squadron group in dungeons and that was actually very enjoyable :) I am leveling a paladin for fun and as I’ll always be a crap tank I won’t unleash myself on DF haha, but I finally understood tanks hollering HEAL ME as Cecily pretty much had the same effect on me :D
I think someone mentioned it in this thread… (?) but from what I understood with Trusts they talk about the instance you are in with them and such? That sounded amazing. -
10-05-2021, 08:17 AMKaoru_NagisaPaladin... is definitely a little weird to me, personally. I think until you get the Requiescat trait at 77 that makes your spells insta-cast, it feels a little awkward and disjointed with its spellcasting mechanics. But that's just me; it's different from my two main tank classes, so I may just be transitioning poorly due to it. I'm getting the hang of it the more I play it, though, so hopefully you will too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishira
It's too bad you're on Phoenix, as I'm always happy to help teach tanking as a role and would've been more than willing to sit you down at a target dummy to practice with, but alas. :c
Either way, Trusts are enjoyable for what they are - and I think anyone who enjoys the characters and story will get quite a lot out of using them. They do indeed have a lot of commentary for dungeons! Bosses, locations, etc. It's easy to miss though since it's speech bubbles over their heads, but when I catch it, it's always fun. They also all have their own little quirks, like Alphinaud and Ryne taking things slow and steady during the Dohn Mheg boss with that tightrope mechanic - whereas Alisaie just books it, and Thancred cheats by yeeting himself over to the other edge. It's all quite fun. -
10-05-2021, 09:29 AMCubsbaneUnlike squadrons, trust NPCs are programmed to do mechanics. That being said, sometimes they mistime a gap closer or stand in something they shouldn't. Still generally more reliable than real people. They just... refuse to AOE mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishira
But while we're on the topic of big pulls in trust dungeons, I learned that, shockingly, Alphinaud can heal me through Walking Dead. This was so unexpected I almost died immediately afterwards because I was too busy frowning at my status bar to hit my CDs.
(Edit: For some reason the most recent page refused to show up until I posted this, making my reply redundant, but luckily we're still on the topic of Trusts so I'm safe.) -
10-05-2021, 11:44 AMSkyCake
I'm embarrassed for myself. Overall, not a big deal and we cleared it totally fine.
It was just a Trial roulette. The DNC danced partner'd me. A mechanic happens where you have get a big cross marker and you try to lead it to the edge so that it doesn't cleave your group. I just walk off the edge and appear in the middle with the marker still. The healer rezs me. Like 15 seconds later, you're suppose to use a duty action to avoid getting knocked off. I thought I pressed it. The blue bubble you get is the same color of the floor and I didn't notice that I didn't have the shield. Right before I get knocked off, the DRG gives me an eye.
It was low-stakes and an easy trial. Just felt so embarrassed and left without a word. I normally talk so much that it probably annoys people. I felt bad for dying in an easy trial that I haven't died during before, but also because two other DPS really thought I was worth buffing. It's really not something to get upset about. But, still slightly ashamed!
Edit: We're back, woo! I've only made a single post in this thread. But, if anything were to happen to this thread again, I will let out a slightly-heavy sigh. -
10-06-2021, 07:32 AMCubsbane
Yo, we're back? Nice.
Uhhhh on-topic stories. Uhhhh. Did my frontline roulette and it was a Draw. I forgot that could happen. (Ice broke, two teams hit the cap simultaneously.) -
10-06-2021, 07:35 AMCeridwenae
Thread is back, and should go to the front page as is its right! The one true thread and all that!
I did a Twinning the other week. I don't know how I missed it until that point. It was okay until the last boss; then the DRG expired, then the tank fell down and couldn't get back up, and I, the MCH, was bouncing around with all the DPS, the boss at 1% - "healer! Heal me and I've got it down in a jiffy!" Healer ignores me in desperate bid to raise tank, during which I die, then they die, but the tank is back up and murders the boss. I mean, yeah, fine, but... you could've just healed me and not needed to res anyone. Le sigh.
Otherwise, good fun! -
10-06-2021, 07:48 AMNishira
Woo now I can read the dissertation in peace, I was bummed out I couldn’t look at it properly (was too tired last night). Thank you again Kaoru :)
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10-06-2021, 07:49 AMItMe
I'm glad this thread is back~
Do... we know what had happened to it?
SkyCake's post is still at the end of the last page, so it doesn't look like an old version of the thread was restored.
So an accident is looking less likely... -
10-06-2021, 07:56 AMLexis
Oh thank goodness the thread is back! Thank you whichever moderator brought it back <3
I don't have a story to contribute at the moment though. If anything, it's the other way around. I've been spamming dungeons leveling machinist for the past few days and groups have been... really good? Like... even when we get new people that don't know the fight, I or someone else gives quick pointers and they'd immediately follow through and adjust. And everyone's so nice too.
I... I'm scared o.o -
10-06-2021, 08:09 AMnebby00
Huzzah! Thread is back!
I don't have any duties in particular to share since groups lately have been pretty good... that and I'm mostly grinding out relics so I don't run into people who don't know how to play their class at all.
Quick question though, has anyone else been getting dc'd frequently lately on Aether ever since they opened it back up again, or is it just me? -
10-06-2021, 08:09 AMGameovers
LOL!!!
So I got a story for you.. I logged in last night expecting to read the tales that I miss.... after laughing for like an hour cause the hell. Glad it's back tho, it was the best laugh I had all night. Random as all hell forum. xD