Realm Reborn = downgrade?

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Originally Posted by Nemy

In the video shown at Gamescom 2012 (that one can easily also find on Youtube), you can clearly see that the animation of the characters is seriously severed.

2 of the main aspects of the running animation are completely gone.

1. The leaning left or right of the characters as they're strafing / changing direction is gone.

2. The animation of the characters as they stop running (that extra step to define the stop) is also completely gone. The characters just stop moving their legs, and that's it.

Please don't tell me that 2 of the most important things that made the animation in FFXIV so good compared to other mmo's are gone for the sake of jumping.

Just quoting a similar thread that i have discovered since we have the same concern :

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It's pre-alpha...

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Originally Posted by Nero

lol

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lol

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Originally Posted by Nero

How did you get the notion, that getting answers which does not fit your own view.. is a bad thing?

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I.. didn't. How did you get the notion that i got the notion that getting answers that do not fit my own view ....is a bad thing?

I only expressed a dislike towards blatant trolls that replied with "HEY LOOK It's THIS thread again" pics etc..

I do my best to discuss other views. This is what i originally did with you, until you started accusing me of "twisting" things and refusing to address my points, and generally being kind of upset for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Nero

You are such a funny guy.you are completly rewriting the Sentence..

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Aww, stop crying man, i obviously never intended to actually fool anyone into thinking that was your own words. Your original quote was right above it, followed by a "fixed". And we all know what "fixed" means. Its been on the interwebs for ages.

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Originally Posted by Nero

I didnt even start yet.

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What are you waiting for?

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Originally Posted by Nero

You are 100 Years to early, to get what i'm "trying"

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Hahaha, i think you're 100 years too early, specifically 15 April 1912, on your Intellectual Titanic, right after it hit the iceberg.

Rinsui was being sarcastic, wasn't he.

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Originally Posted by Rognis

It's pre-alpha...

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I know. And i hope that this will not be the case in the final product, although there are solid reasons, already expressed in this thread to be concerned that the animation will be seriously downgraded as you can see in the video, and a very solid reasoning that is also already expressed in this thread that this is the time to ask the developers some clarification, and/or to tell them how we feel about it.

(i'm obviously not speaking for everyone, but i'm not alone in this.)

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Originally Posted by Rognis

It's pre-alpha...

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Yup, you have to consider that there probably is tons of bugs and stuff just waiting for us in the Alpha and Beta Phase. They probably wanted to cut down the chances of problems just including the bare basics to display what they wanted to show which was the new User Interface, gameplay mechanics, and dynamic lighting system, of which Immersion features like subtle animations and basic outdoor physics were probably left out.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Aww, stop crying man, i obviously never intended to actually fool anyone into thinking that was your own words. Your original quote was right above it, followed by a "fixed". And we all know what "fixed" means. Its been on the interwebs for ages.

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lol

You are getting more and more butthurt, dont you realize how your comments going from someone who tried to be some "smart guy", into some really strange comments with an agressive attitude?

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Originally Posted by Nemy

What are you waiting for?

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I dont know, maybe for a Brain to grow inside your Skull? I did not even say that i wait for anything.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Hahaha, i think you're 100 years too early, specifically 15 April 1912, on your Intellectual Titanic, right after it hit the iceberg.

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Copying parts of my phrases doesnt make you look any smarter. :) And the Titanic sank on 15th of April 1912, it was hitting the Iceberg on the 14th. lol

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Rinsui was being sarcastic, wasn't he.

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Nope, he was actually someone who used his Brain and was capable of having an actual discussion. And like i said before.. its working allready and so it will continue.

Next time, on "As The World Turns..."

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Originally Posted by Nero

You are getting more and more butthurt, dont you realize how your comments going from someone who tried to be some "smart guy", into some really strange comments with an agressive attitude?

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Hahaha, Ultimate Projection. That's exactly what you feel you are resorting to, and you're mentioning it in a lousy attempt to stay above the situation.

I just want you to know, i don't think you're neither stupid nor actually mad at me, you just kinda lost it in the way.

If you want us to get back to our original subjects, i'm here, i got a lot of free time these days.

Maybe you can even ...start yet? (i'm sorry i couldn't resist)

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Originally Posted by Nero

I dont know, maybe for a Brain to grow inside your Skull?

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Oh, come on now, you don't have to be mean. My comment about your Intellectual Titanic was comic relief. I knew it was kind of aggressive when i thought of it, but hey, in ~3 months from now i wont get to use it anymore.

Speaking of the Titanic,

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Originally Posted by Nero

the Titanic sank on 15th of April 1912, it was hitting the Iceberg on the 14th.

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It hit the iceberg at 11.40 pm, literally minutes before the 15th, and "right after" is open to interpretation.

What boggles my mind about this entire thread is that it has reached the 29th page. 29 pages of the following parrot responses:

• It's footage of Alpha game-play, get a grip!
• Is this a troll?
• No, this is not a troll.
• Your mom is legit

Okay, the last one wasn't in there anywhere that I could see but really... 29 pages?!?! LOL Oh wait, I just parroted too! omahgerd!

Your mom is legit

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Originally Posted by Apricoth

What boggles my mind about this entire thread is that it has reached the 29th page. 29 pages of the following parrot responses:

• It's footage of Alpha game-play, get a grip!
• Is this a troll?
• No, this is not a troll.
• Your mom is legit

Okay, the last one wasn't in there anywhere that I could see but really... 29 pages?!?! LOL Oh wait, I just parroted too! omahgerd!

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Threads tend to evolve this way since the new people coming in ignore the 20 pages above them and go straight to post something that has already been addressed multiple times already.

For example, a few really good posts about why this is the time to talk about the animation and not in the alpha exist in the first few pages, yet people still parrot "pre-alpha footage" instead of addressing the points made at these posts.

But i guess it keeps the thread alive since many people are interested / concern about this.

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Originally Posted by Makwa

Your mom is legit

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I second that notion.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Threads tend to evolve this way since the new people coming in ignore the 20 pages above them and go straight to post something that has already been addressed multiple times already.

For example, a few really good posts about why this is the time to talk about the animation and not in the alpha exist in the first few pages, yet people still parrot "pre-alpha footage" instead of addressing the points made at these posts.

But i guess it keeps the thread alive since many people are interested / concern about this.

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The animation in the footage is concerning, and you certainly should voice your concerns right now.

But the fact of the matter is, it also is pre-alpha footage. If the animations remain as they are during alpha, then voice your concerns again. This is a perfectly reasonable response, and it's been made elsewhere in this thread.

Yes, people have been parroting the simple pre-alpha argument without any sort of qualification, and such posts are largely unnecessary. But so are your defensive responses to these posts. Your original point is now lost in a sea of bickering. This thread has become dramatic, whiny, and entirely superfluous.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Threads tend to evolve this way since the new people coming in ignore the 20 pages above them and go straight to post something that has already been addressed multiple times already.

For example, a few really good posts about why this is the time to talk about the animation and not in the alpha exist in the first few pages, yet people still parrot "pre-alpha footage" instead of addressing the points made at these posts.

But i guess it keeps the thread alive since many people are interested / concern about this.

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What would you have us do, just nod and say ok I agree with you and leave it at that. It's all conjecture based off no available information, most of us who say it's pre-alpha footage/demo means it's just that. There's much more we don't know than what was presented in the video, and some like myself have had their hands in programming and have a good idea on the development process enough to know there can be tons of very realistic reasons why they didn't include subtle animations like movement slowdown in the footage/demo, especially when that wasn't the main focus of the presentation to begin with.

If the focus of the video/demo was about animation and movement specifically I would agree with you, but in all case and purposes most programmers wouldn't add more than necessary on an unfinished product when there's just so much that could go wrong.

But if that isn't going to convince you, then look at it this way. If they added everything they've fully developed for the Alpha thus far and the demo/footage was buggy and crashed which would you think is worse for the company and developers trying to regain the trust of their customers.

A. Video/Demo locks up due to Bugs, causing a media backlash and do more damage than good even if there are no foreseeable problems from there.

B. Video/Demo works smoothly without some of the finer touches of what the finished game will have, developers make their point and despite some nitpicking at little things it otherwise is a success.

I still didn't even get the point of this thread. They are gonna have a alpha test and there you can voice your problems with the game<.<

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Originally Posted by alexhatesmil

The animation in the footage is concerning, and you certainly should voice your concerns right now

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Thank you.

...and don't worry about me and the thread, its been a while, so i enjoyed a bit of old fashioned forum drama.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I still didn't even get the point of this thread. They are gonna have a alpha test and there you can voice your problems with the game<.<

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The point of the thread was to ask a simple question about the footage. It obviously got out of hand due to scoffers and defenders of pre-Alpha footage. A simple and fair inquiry about the difference in animation turned into this. Um, ya...

Perhaps the title should have been named something other than RR = Downgrade, which only invites annoyed responses akin to finger pointing and namecalling (i.e. crybabies). I would've just named it something more relevant like Alpha Animation Lacks Inertia. Regardless, Nemy's OP did hit the target with asking relevant questions about the topic at hand that many others have already been wondering (and would like a dev response to) since it does matter to those of us who are spoiled by FFXIV 1.xx animation. Simple and relevant.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

What would you have us do, just nod and say ok I agree with you and leave it at that. It's all conjecture based off no available information, most of us who say it's pre-alpha footage/demo means it's just that. There's much more we don't know than what was presented in the video, and some like myself have had their hands in programming and have a good idea on the development process enough to know there can be tons of very realistic reasons why they didn't include subtle animations like movement slowdown in the footage/demo, especially when that wasn't the main focus of the presentation to begin with.

If the focus of the video/demo was about animation and movement specifically I would agree with you, but in all case and purposes most programmers wouldn't add more than necessary on an unfinished product when there's just so much that could go wrong.

But if that isn't going to convince you, then look at it this way. If they added everything they've fully developed for the Alpha thus far and the demo/footage was buggy and crashed which would you think is worse for the company and developers trying to regain the trust of their customers.

A. Video/Demo locks up due to Bugs, causing a media backlash and do more damage than good even if there are no foreseeable problems from there.

B. Video/Demo works smoothly without some of the finer touches of what the finished game will have, developers make their point and despite some nitpicking at little things it otherwise is a success.

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Let me clarify something. I'm with you. I completely understand your hypothesis, i accept that it might be the case, and i even wish to be this way. I have said that numerous times in this thread.

I really don't try to be negative, but FFXIV is the only mmo i'm interested in as a former XI player, (and probably the only one that i will be interested in for a long time, judging by the quality of the mmo's that keep popping left and right these days) and since i value things like character animation so much (i wish i didn't) i made this thread to a) ask the developers for clarification or just make them aware that we are aware and b) talk about it with you guys.

And since a constructive discussion always needs a devil's advocate, otherwise we simply circlejerk, i got the role of presenting the possible reasons why SE would choose to downgrade the current animation in 2.0

Again, i never claim to know what of all scenarios is true, nor do i think either is more likely to be the case.

All i want is for us to be heard, and maybe a developer to address the issue before its too late. (wishful thinking there, somehow i believe that we can make a change)

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

The point of the thread was to ask a simple question about the footage. It obviously got out of hand due to scoffers and defenders of pre-Alpha footage. A simple and fair inquiry about the difference in animation turned into this. Um, ya...

Perhaps the title should have been named something other than RR = Downgrade, which only invites annoyed responses akin to finger pointing and namecalling (i.e. crybabies). I would've just named it something more relevant like Alpha Animation Lacks Inertia. Regardless, Nemy's OP did hit the target with asking relevant questions about the topic at hand that many others have already been wondering (and would like a dev response to) since it does matter to those of us who are spoiled by FFXIV 1.xx animation. Simple and relevant.

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Thank you, (i do believe the title was provoking, but at the time, and in all honesty, it was intentional.)

And i really like your Mog Idea. (just finished reading your thread, i'm new here, never really cared for forum lurking till now)

I am concerned about the animation and I do hope it's just a Alpha thing. We will find out soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I am concerned about the animation and I do hope it's just a Alpha thing. We will find out soon enough.

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Hmmm a dev response on your behavioral AI thread (awesome idea btw, that and the bestiary, i'd love to have an artwork of every monster i have encountered in-game, liked both of them) would you say that devs read and really take the views presented here seriously?

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Thank you, (i do believe the title was provoking, but at the time, and in all honesty, it was intentional.)

And i really like your Mog Idea. (just finished reading your thread, i'm new here, never really cared for forum lurking till now)

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Haha, welcome to purgatory.

I too never cared for forums until I realized I really was part of a community that gets heard regularly by the LOC team and devs. I try and stay away from too much back and forth with some of the hard-headed posters.

The community reps have stated many times that they read through all forum topics and share community concerns with Yoshi-P in their regular meetings with him, even if they sometimes don't respond. This thread has definitely reached a level of awareness that warrants a rep response. Some of these negative nancies are only feeding the thread's awareness, so you should be happy ppl are arguing/agreeing regardless of how strong (or stubborn) the opposition is. Regardless, we all have high hopes for FFXIV:ARR and want it to succeed. The only difference being how it will succeed... with/without our opinions. I lean towards with since without got us in this mess in the first place.

P.S. Thanks for checking out my Mog thread btw! I'd be happy if even one bullet point of my suggestions gets to the devs.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Haha, welcome to purgatory.

I too never cared for forums until I realized I really was part of a community that gets heard regularly by the LOC team and devs. I try and stay away from too much back and forth with some of the hard-headed posters.

The community reps have stated many times that they read through all forum topics and share community concerns with Yoshi-P in their regular meetings with him, even if they sometimes don't respond. This thread has definitely reached a level of awareness that warrants a rep response. Some of these negative nancies are only feeding the thread's awareness, so you should be happy ppl are arguing/agreeing regardless of how strong (or stubborn) the opposition is. Regardless, we all have high hopes for FFXIV:ARR and want it to succeed. The only difference being how it will succeed... with/without our opinions. I lean towards with since without got us in this mess in the first place.

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I wish I could like posts more than once. This guy gets it.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Haha, welcome to purgatory.

I too never cared for forums until I realized I really was part of a community that gets heard regularly by the LOC team and devs. I try and stay away from too much back and forth with some of the hard-headed posters.

The community reps have stated many times that they read through all forum topics and share community concerns with Yoshi-P in their regular meetings with him, even if they sometimes don't respond. This thread has definitely reached a level of awareness that warrants a rep response. Some of these negative nancies are only feeding the thread's awareness, so you should be happy ppl are arguing/agreeing regardless of how strong (or stubborn) the opposition is. Regardless, we all have high hopes for FFXIV:ARR and want it to succeed. The only difference being how it will succeed... with/without our opinions. I lean towards with since without got us in this mess in the first place.

P.S. Thanks for checking out my Mog thread btw! I'd be happy if even one bullet point of my suggestions gets to the devs.

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This is the kind of reply that really made all this thing worthwhile.

Not because you share my concern, but seeing how you truly understand the mechanics of all this.

So can anyone pls also comment on mind on camera then? Rofl is getting too lonely behind >_<

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

So can anyone pls also comment on mind on camera then? Rofl is getting too lonely behind >_<

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I'm in the process of adding a few quotes on the original post in this thread, would you like to summarise the issue for me to mention it, or even better, link to your thread?

(This thread will eventually be left behind also, since we are a fixed number, and we can't really repeat ourselves to bump this thread up till we get an answer, so i was thinking of merging a few legitimate community concerns to one thread)

It will be a huge upgrade if it doesn't randomly crash like this current client does.. lol

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Originally Posted by Nemy

I'm in the process of adding a few quotes on the original post in this thread, would you like to summarise the issue for me to mention it, or even better, link to your thread?

(This thread will eventually be left behind also, since we are a fixed number, and we can't really repeat ourselves to bump this thread up till we get an answer, so i was thinking of merging a few legitimate community concerns to one thread)

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Perhaps we could circlejerk for a bit?

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Perhaps we could circlejerk for a bit?

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Hahaha, well, we still got things to discuss..

For example, is there a way to change the current title of the thread? I tried to change the title but it only applied to the headline of the thread as you open it, not how it is displayed in the GD forum.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Hahaha, well, we still got things to discuss..

For example, is there a way to change the current title of the thread? I tried to change the title but it only applied to the headline of the thread as you open it, not how it is displayed in the GD forum.

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Actually I don't think you can. I've tried changing a title to one of my threads before with no luck. Perhaps someone else knows how?

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Actually I don't think you can. I've tried changing a title to one of my threads before with no luck. Perhaps someone else knows how?

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Sad. I wanted to change that aggressive title to something more polite, if any mods are reading this and if possible, please change it to the current headline of the original post. (Possible Animation Downgrade in ARR?)

Also Zaireeka, thank you for providing me the best possible answer to the stop complaining its pre-alpha people.

I added your quote right after a wonderful display of constructive criticism, by one of those guys, in the original post.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Amazing.

No matter how outrageous an opinion seems, there is always someone that has it.

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Yeah i dont like how the leaning looks like, it could be done better. Not that i care, i care about how the movement feels when im pressing a button.

I'm afraid those animations are intended to be like that. Although I'm pretty sure that they are going to polish it as good as possible. I really want them to keep the current smooth animations but if they saw no better way to do this with the gameplay in mind. Then I'll simply accept their choice. It's probably a compromise they had to make for the sake of gameplay.

Will I be happy about it? Not really, but at least I get to enjoy my game in another way during combat. You gain some, you lose some. Is what comes to mind

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Originally Posted by Mort

Yeah i dont like how the leaning looks like, it could be done better. Not that i care, i care about how the movement feels when im pressing a button.

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Very understandable. I like responsive controls as well, but i wouldn't change the current animation.. I would prefer a workaround on the lock issues etc..

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Very understandable. I like responsive controls as well, but i wouldn't change the current animation.. I would prefer a workaround on the lock issues etc..

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apply current animation on passive mode only,apply responsive animation on active mode?

Animations are not done by the server*, how we got onto "animation lock" and only solution is losing quality is wild.. I'm going to have to run through some pages....

Animations are client side*, their engine having to play one animation after another and having server side lag (only data center is in japan) has made animation lock - redoing their engine code appropriately will fix this (server side lag will help reduce what used to appear as animation lock).

*I say animations are client side (not done by server) because it means that your delays are all based on -their- programming and -your- systems strengths (or weaknesses). Play any FPS worth its pennies and you will see thousands of possible animations on each character transferring and rendering seamlessly - no "cant move while reloading" messages.

There is no reason to be talking about "work around" when they are working from the ground up, thats basically saying "Its ok if you do a bad job on your engine code". No, they are writing their code now - lets make sure they do it right this time. Dont be an excusing fan please, let's instead be courteous pushers for greatness :)..

That being said - if they made some wonky code again and have to rewrite it to include 2 more movement animations I'd live with this new system. However, if they have any general sense of programming it shouldn't be set in stone yet (changing it - if not already possible should only be a few pages of code).

Edit: Yoshida has previously talked about animation lock and that they are adding animation blending - this is to improve combat looks and to fix what animation lock intended.
(That is animation blending, blends two distinct animations together getting a new animation - in theory if they made a good enough system they could also make characters feet actually stand on steps.... animation lock was originally in as a way to ensure characters couldn't break animations on different actions and then therefore look stupid - however this made fights like Ifrit hard for a bad reason (its also a cheap fix.. - animation blending is the way to go)).

While I have no issues with the trailer, looked beautiful imo and I understand that things change from beta to live, I think we all should be wary of using the "Its only alpha" or "Its only beta" excuses when it comes to this game too often. Got burned by it once.

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Originally Posted by Aion

apply current animation on passive mode only,apply responsive animation on active mode?

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That's the first solution that came to my mind.

Still a downgrade, but by default, you don't really pay attention to the animations on active mode, you focus on the battle.

I just finished watching FINAL FANTASY XIV Special Talk Session, and while other aspects of the game look promising, the animation looks even worse up close. Just by thinking this could be the animation of the final product, is really painful to watch.

Look at this backpedaling :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_737h...ilpage#t=2280s

Seriously, we need an answer.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

I just finished watching FINAL FANTASY XIV Special Talk Session, and while other aspects of the game look promising, the animation looks even worse up close. Just by thinking this could be the animation of the final product, is really painful to watch.

Look at this backpedaling :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_737h...ilpage#t=2280s

Seriously, we need an answer.

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but seriously.. it looks SO much better in all ways when watching the special talk session video.. cant be serious any longer that THIS is a downgrade.. really

i can live with that "back pedaling" when it means, that it plays 100 times better and fluent like the "shitty" version we have now. in comparison to that, we have seen at the newest presenation

you have no real problems if the only thing you can complain about in this video is "back pedaling".. seriously.