7.1 - More Wuk Lamat

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

That does actually sound better, to be fair.

Although I wish they hadn't had that sequence in the first place. I still hate that Queen Eternal clearly said that WE were "the single greatest threat" only for Wuk Lamat to gatecrash the fight to (apparently) demonstrate that Queen Eternal was wrong about who the greatest threat was.

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The best part is she ends up doing the equivalent of three DPS's worth of damage. Just to rub it in one last time who the real main character is this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Embran

They redid the Spene trial lines for Wuk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_zLOknonmo

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It still sounds awful just in a different way, the voice actress just is not that good at the role retakes won't help it

This scene shouldn't of even been in the game and really just make the Warrior of Light look weak considering the things we have gone up against.

I’m not sure why it’s acceptable for Square Enix to be faking accents in their games. I thought this practice was already condemned? Because Wuk sounds like a very poor imitation of what a Latino person should sound like. It’s not convincing and it’s actually painful to listen to. It’s something that someone would do as a racist skit. Sadly the Oppression Olympics has come full circle and we’re back to blackface minstrel shows again. And to be clear: it’s not just the fake accent, it’s the fact that it sounds absolutely garish. If the VA dropped the racist bit maybe these lines would actually come across well.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

I’m not sure why it’s acceptable for Square Enix to be faking accents in their games. I thought this practice was already condemned? Because Wuk sounds like a very poor imitation of what a Latino person should sound like. It’s not convincing and it’s actually painful to listen to. It’s something that someone would do as a racist skit. Sadly the Oppression Olympics has come full circle and we’re back to blackface minstrel shows again. And to be clear: it’s not just the fake accent, it’s the fact that it sounds absolutely garish. If the VA dropped the racist bit maybe these lines would actually come across well.

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I imagine it's probably hard to find voice actors who are actually from Tural. Calling fake accents in a fictional fantasy game racist is pretty unhinged.

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Originally Posted by Embran

They redid the Spene trial lines for Wuk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_zLOknonmo

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The infamous "Sphene listen to me" line is STILL kinda bad, but I have to admit it gets better when she gets to the "But if there's truly no other way to resolve this" part

She just doesn't have the range for this type of situation

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

That does actually sound better, to be fair.

Although I wish they hadn't had that sequence in the first place. I still hate that Queen Eternal clearly said that WE were "the single greatest threat" only for Wuk Lamat to gatecrash the fight to (apparently) demonstrate that Queen Eternal was wrong about who the greatest threat was.

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This is how i feel about it. It is better than 7.0, but the writing behind this scene is still terrible.

Regardless of how one feels about the VA's talent/limited range, the first lines are still very awkward and I'd feel bad for anyone who had to say them.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

I imagine it's probably hard to find voice actors who are actually from Tural. Calling fake accents in a fictional fantasy game racist is pretty unhinged.

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Are you sure you want to do that? You like Tural for representing Latin culture. And your heroes, Kate and Sena, acknowledge the cultural background behind Dawntrail. But now that there’s racial appropriation going on, you suddenly deny that those inspirations ever existed? What kind of gaslighting is this? What was the point of making a big show out of hiring Latino actors for other roles? Why is half the expansion about tacos? Are you saying we should close our eyes whenever these references appear because they’re no longer canon?

You know, even as an absolute WL-Hater, I have to be honest: The MSQ was fine-to-decent this time around, nothing offensibly bad that would warrant skipping all the way,

She was sidelined to an apropiate degree and the little thing she tried to do at the start didn't work out, so her Mary-Sue-ness was dialed back to "normal".
This time, other characters got their fair amount of screentime, the new dungeon was accessible in a very reasonable timeframe.
And we got a few lore-drops (that should have been in the main-story but alas).

But dear Yoshi-P, make no mistake:
The 7.0 was and is still an absolute trainwreck and the writers still deserver to be replaced.
And while 7.1 was decent, it will take a lot of work and quality to earn back my trust.

(Granted, I literally only did the MSQ so far.)

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Are you sure you want to do that? You like Tural for representing Latin culture. And your heroes, Kate and Sena, acknowledge the cultural background behind Dawntrail. But now that there’s racial appropriation going on, you suddenly deny that those inspirations ever existed? What kind of gaslighting is this? What was the point of making a big show out of hiring Latino actors for other roles? Why is half the expansion about tacos? Are you saying we should close our eyes whenever these references appear because they’re no longer canon?

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Did you throw such a fit in the Steppe as well?
Thavnair?
Doma?

Im latino and its a travesty have to hear any more of Sena VA. Thats why this character is done for me, if i ever get the final MSQ trial on roulette i leave it. I cant with this character and expansion.

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Originally Posted by Talael

Im latino and its a travesty have to hear any more of Sena VA. Thats why this character is done for me, if i ever get the final MSQ trial on roulette i leave it. I cant with this character and expansion.

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To be fair that accent is pretty terrible.

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Originally Posted by honest_psycho

You know, even as an absolute WL-Hater, I have to be honest: The MSQ was fine-to-decent this time around, nothing offensibly bad that would warrant skipping all the way,

She was sidelined to an apropiate degree and the little thing she tried to do at the start didn't work out, so her Mary-Sue-ness was dialed back to "normal".
This time, other characters got their fair amount of screentime, the new dungeon was accessible in a very reasonable timeframe.
And we got a few lore-drops (that should have been in the main-story but alas).

But dear Yoshi-P, make no mistake:
The 7.0 was and is still an absolute trainwreck and the writers still deserver to be replaced.
And while 7.1 was decent, it will take a lot of work and quality to earn back my trust.

(Granted, I literally only did the MSQ so far.)

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Agreed. I think they planned to reveal baby's backstory in the patches since the beginning, but the writing in all of 7.0 was so clunky that it didn't feel convincing or natural to leave it for later.
I don't know if the writing actually IMPROVED though, or if it feels better because it's much shorter.

My biggest problem with 7.0 still stands in 7.1, which is the Scions being cardboard cutouts, not acting unique or having their own thoughts, and their presence making not difference at all. They're still just following around and nodding and saying the same things. G'raha did have a nice little unique line there, which I appreciate, but other than that, it doesn't feel like they're there.

I miss speaking with all of the NPCs around between quests and having them talk about something fun and more personal.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Did you throw such a fit in the Steppe as well?
Thavnair?
Doma?

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Kate Cwynar became voice director starting in Endwalker and stated that the goal was to use authentic voices. Thavnair has numerous Indian actors because the region is based on India. Dawntrail also has numerous Latino voice actors. Except Wuk Lamat, who is the sole exception in the worst way possible. She does have an accent, but it’s fake and forced. No other NPC since Endwalker has this issue.

If Koji Fox was still the director (Stormblood), we wouldn’t be using accents at all besides British and American. And that would honestly be better for Wuk because I know the production for her character would’ve been better with the Midwestern accent that Sena Bryer naturally has, rather than this awkward and racist minstrel show act.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Kate Cwynar became voice director starting in Endwalker and stated that the goal was to use authentic voices. Thavnair has numerous Indian actors because the region is based on India. Dawntrail also has numerous Latino voice actors. Except Wuk Lamat, who is the sole exception in the worst way possible. She does have an accent, but it’s fake and forced. No other NPC since Endwalker has this issue.

If Koji Fox was still the director (Stormblood), we wouldn’t be using accents at all besides British and American. And that would honestly be better for Wuk because I know the production for her character would’ve been better with the Midwestern accent that Sena Bryer naturally has, rather than this awkward and racist minstrel show act.

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So it's only bad because she does a bad job.

Kugane?
Fanow? Because only one VA was from Iceland.

they told us that we'd get more of her months ago. idk what you expected

Crazy how adult people act like children.

Wuk Lamat is fine in this patch? Like, she's there, but if her mere presence triggers you that much, that seems like a "you" problem. She's hardly the focus here; Gulool Ja and Koana are. WL is fine when not monopolizing the content.

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Originally Posted by Sacae

Wuk Lamat is fine in this patch? Like, she's there, but if her mere presence triggers you that much, that seems like a "you" problem. She's hardly the focus here; Gulool Ja and Koana are. WL is fine when not monopolizing the content.

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THIS! Omg I can't like this comment enough.

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Originally Posted by Shialan

Crazy how adult people act like children.

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Yes - I agree. Coming into a thread only to pettily insult others and offer no other discussion is pretty childish.

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Originally Posted by Embran

They redid the Spene trial lines for Wuk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_zLOknonmo

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*heavy metal music plays*
SPHEEEEEEEEEEEEENE

Looking at the messages from the beginning of this thread after playing through 7.1. As I expected, the panic ended up being for nothing. The devs listened to player feedback and she doesn't take up as much of the spotlight in the patch storyline. Then again, knowing the forums, I expect that a lot of people here aren't going to be satisfied unless she's removed from the story entirely (which obviously isn't happening since she's a major character in this expansion). In any case, I'm glad that the devs are taking feedback to heart without caving to the people arguing in bad faith.

Wuk Lamat wasn't the issue in this patch even if absolutely no change came to how her character was written (which is a negative by the way), but as I just mentioned, she isn't the main issue at all and is just being used at a scapegoat at this point, even if I also do flinch a little every time she's mentioned or appears on screen as I know associate her character with the huge decline in the quality of writing.

The funeral came off as emotionless, detached and awkward. Both Koana and Gulool Ja having completely unbelievable and poorly fleshed out backstories that also came off as simultaneously forced and uninteresting really did not sit well with me, especially the whole Zoraal Ja and Gulool Mommy thing, it was just handled in such a catastrophically poor manner.
A lot of people give X.1 patches flak for being uninteresting, but I genuinely enjoyed 3.1, 4.1, 5.1 and even 6.1 (even for its uneventful simplicity until the rest of the EW patch quests ended up terrible), I can sit through the political babble and wrapping up loose ends from the main story, but THIS, oh this was just both irrelevant and botched.

The only thing I can give this patch is that the last few minutes have an interesting set up, whereas the game and level design team did a great job on the atmosphere, setting and boss designs of the dungeon, but the WRITING is probably the worst I've ever had the displeasure of sitting through for all the time I've played FFXIV, and that's not a good sign when it was the writing and storytelling that attracted so many players to this game in the first place.

I am not finished the 7.1 msq yet, but since someone mentioned that there are 7 quests this time, I guess I have one quest to go.

Like Yoshihara above, I also flinched and frowned the moment Wuk appeared - and yes because seeing her I fully expect to be annoyed. I'm pretty sure even my character didn't look all that delighted to see her either. Her entrance as usual is jarring and out of nowhere. I honestly cared more about the conversation the NPCs were having.

I do like that they toned down how irritating she was in 7.0 - so far she hasn't acted like a complete buffoon or said anything truly stupid. She has been in every quest so far, so nothing has changed there. So far there has been only 1 scene with any voice acting - so much for the argument about all the voice acting they would need to work on lol.

I agree the funeral wasn't very moving at all - especially with the speech given by some new NPC we never met or have any attachment to.

I did enjoy the dungeon - it was creepy and I like that type of setting. I am interested in where they are going with this is how they end up introducing the beastmaster class. Added bonus - with Graha also available, I got to leave Wuk behind. Why a child travelled with us rather than staying behind off screen with Wuk - I have no idea.

As a catguy I did personally enjoy the quest involving Koana learning about the tribe his parents came from - but that would be mostly because I could see my own character being a part of a similar tribe rather than the tasks being that interesting.

Hopefully the remaining quest or two is decent.

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Originally Posted by MediocreIndigo

Looking at the messages from the beginning of this thread after playing through 7.1. As I expected, the panic ended up being for nothing. The devs listened to player feedback and she doesn't take up as much of the spotlight in the patch storyline. Then again, knowing the forums, I expect that a lot of people here aren't going to be satisfied unless she's removed from the story entirely (which obviously isn't happening since she's a major character in this expansion). In any case, I'm glad that the devs are taking feedback to heart without caving to the people arguing in bad faith.

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Make no mistake, even if I thought the patch-msq was fine, I have not forgiven the main-story.
I'm still very much in the "writers need to be replaced asap"-camp and I will sign any petition to get rid of them and Wuk Lamat.

Also, the patches up until 7.3 are already written, so this was not a result of feedback, but alas, no reason to forgive anything.

They seem to think that because a few people agree with their strongly worded opinion in the game forum, everyone agrees with them. Just put them on a throne at Square Enix headquarters so they can tell Yoshi P and the gang how it ought to be done.

Im just gonna throw it out there that the VA for Vrtra/Varshahn didnt get flak in the forums because they did an actual good job.

Anyone trying to downplay how offensive Wuk's accent in the english VA sounds, seriously needs to reconsider if borderline racism is okay for them

For the record, im Latino too, and I switched the voices to JP starting from 7.1 and it will stay like that untill Wuk is gone from MSQ, and the JP VA does a really good job

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Originally Posted by Fivefold

They seem to think that because a few people agree with their strongly worded opinion in the game forum, everyone agrees with them. Just put them on a throne at Square Enix headquarters so they can tell Yoshi P and the gang how it ought to be done.

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And some ppl will look at a dwindling population, the lowest ratings ever, actual valid criticisms both on the forums and off of it (even reddit, which by itself is telling) and seem to think that everyone else is the problem and that their precious is perfect in every way as they try to keep the people actively causing these problems, who are curently telling us how it ought to be done, on the throne. Not knowing that their stalwart defense of the many obvious flaws of a product is actually helping to slowly dismantle the thing they claim to love so very much. Remember this little bit of wisdom: if you hug something too tightly, even though it's because you love it, you're going to kill it.

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Originally Posted by Fivefold

They seem to think that because a few people agree with their strongly worded opinion in the game forum, everyone agrees with them. Just put them on a throne at Square Enix headquarters so they can tell Yoshi P and the gang how it ought to be done.

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It's not just a few people. There were also polls where Wuk was among the least-liked characters even in Japan. It's failed writing all around.

If you think the above you haven't been paying attention. Which is fine - but it's wrong to draw conclusions it's just a few people here.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

It's not just a few people. There were also polls where Wuk was among the least-liked characters even in Japan. It's failed writing all around.

If you think the above you haven't been paying attention. Which is fine - but it's wrong to draw conclusions it's just a few people here.

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Definitely not a good look when a character is being put front and center in a new expansion and the character can't even break into the Top 10 of the Japanese fan poll. I think even Wuk Evu took a Top 10 spot.

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Originally Posted by Barachim

Definitely not a good look when a character is being put front and center in a new expansion and the character can't even break into he Top 10 of the Japanese fan poll. I think even Wuk Evu took a Top 10 spot.

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It's pretty embarrassing. They really thought making her the lead, and by an overwhelming amount of screen time compared to everyone else, was going to result in her having way more fans than she actually does. They wrote her to have a very strong personality, it's just it's strong in ways most people find off-putting. Really missed the mark.

In 7.1 she seems to have lost a lot of that personality and she's becoming more of a flat character. I can't tell if that's really a win or not.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Yep, as soon as I saw that I realized they listened to absolutely none of the fedback from 7.0 and are just going to steamroll ahead to try to push that mary sue even more. Should be used to it since almost every large item the community has been asking for needs to be screamed from the rooftops for 6+ years straight before Yoshida even thinks about looking into how feasible it is to put into the game.

We're really talking to a wall when we give feedback on here it seems. It's even more wild when you look at live service games like Mihoyo's offerings and see that they can on a dime transition their story, mission structure, and character types they're making to meet feedback. All we get is silence and excuses at the live letter every 6 months.

Endwalker was delayed for a script rewrite so we know they absolutely can make changes so close to release, but only on their terms when they want to. What the community wants? Ehhhh maybe in a few years if they feel like it.

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Yoshi-P in his last live letter said that he had just approved the trailer concept for 8.0. The 7.x series is all planned out and if you think anything is going to change between now and 8.0 then you are kidding yourself. Also saying they have listened to none of the feedback is just disingenuous because they have changed job design and numbers based on what people wanted. The fact is that the 7.x content has been in production for probably over a year already so they can't just change it on a whim.

Bringing up Mihoyo as an example shows an incredible lack of knowledge of how anything works. The biggest company in the world, making the most expensive and highest grossing game ever which is designed around a 6 week patch cycle, is nothing like XIV at all. It's much easier to change content when the patch cycle is so short and they have an infinite amount of money to throw at it.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Yoshi-P in his last live letter said that he had just approved the trailer concept for 8.0. The 7.x series is all planned out and if you think anything is going to change between now and 8.0 then you are kidding yourself. Also saying they have listened to none of the feedback is just disingenuous because they have changed job design and numbers based on what people wanted. The fact is that the 7.x content has been in production for probably over a year already so they can't just change it on a whim.

Bringing up Mihoyo as an example shows an incredible lack of knowledge of how anything works. The biggest company in the world, making the most expensive and highest grossing game ever which is designed around a 6 week patch cycle, is nothing like XIV at all. It's much easier to change content when the patch cycle is so short and they have an infinite amount of money to throw at it.

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I don't recall anyone ever asking for less Nastrond, but here we are.
I really want to believe they are listening to feedback. I really, really do. I always admired the XIV team for valuing player feedback.
But I honestly can't say that I'm feeling we are being heard recently. I'm still hoping to be proven wrong every single patch, but things don't really look good as of now.

A lot of the job changes go against what the loud majority's been asking for (jobs are being more and more homogenized and simplified). They did seem to take ask for and notice of a lot of graphical update changes request, yet a lot of times they went against what people wanted. Everyone complained about writing quality and Wuk Lamat's characterization and constant presence, and YoshiP answered in an interview that people didn't like her "because she lacked confidence". Many of his answers and comments regarding feedback about the MSQ sounded out of touch as well, like he didn't go through the story's final version, only the initial concepts of it, and didn't try to understand the player's feedback. Which I'm sure he wouldn't want or even be able to go in depth about the issues they had or anything like that, but I don't recall in the past his answers being so off base.

It's true that they don't have Mihoyo's budget and team...but Square Enix isn't a small indie company, either. They SHOULD have more budget to invest in XIV, but what it feels like right now, is that the money we spend and invest on this game that we love, isn't coming back to it. Not only that, but since Endwalker, they're taking away people from the game's team to work on other SE games that we most likely don't care about, and that IS affecting this game's quality. YoshiP tried to reassure us that XVI wouldn't take his attention away from 14, but yes, yes it did, and it was very noticeable.

I really hope I'm just wrong and frustrated, but I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling this way right now.

TBH that makes me curious what Wuk lamat's German Voice is like.

I changed the client to English you see, because I couldn't stand how they wrote the German dialogue. That could've just as well be Berlin in 2040.

[EDIT]
Yeah no, trust me, her English Voice is not even half as terrible and obnoxious despite the fake accent.
Koana's voice is nice, though.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

TBH that makes me curious what Wuk lamat's German Voice is like.

I changed the client to English you see, because I couldn't stand how they wrote the German dialogue. That could've just as well be Berlin in 2040.

[EDIT]
Yeah no, trust me, her English Voice is not even half as terrible and obnoxious despite the fake accent.
Koana's voice is nice, though.

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lol As someone who grew up in a part of the states that still speaks a lot of German, I actually changed it to German and thought it was leaps and bounds better than English. Everyone said go to Japanese, but that high pitched thing a lot of Japanese women do is like nails on chalkboard to me, which is why I always watched dubbed anime too. No idea how ppl hear that and think, "Oh yeah that is great, I want more of that!"

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Originally Posted by Raraka

Anyone trying to downplay how offensive Wuk's accent in the english VA sounds, seriously needs to reconsider if borderline racism is okay for them.

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How are you going to say it's offensive when that's the VA's accent? You're so busy trying to tell people to be offended that you haven't taken a minute to gather some facts about the artist. It's not a made-up accent. Maybe you need to reconsider who's being racist.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

It's not just a few people. There were also polls where Wuk was among the least-liked characters even in Japan. It's failed writing all around.

If you think the above you haven't been paying attention. Which is fine - but it's wrong to draw conclusions it's just a few people here.

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There are literally millions of players in this game. I don't think 300 people in a forum and an internet poll count as a majority. Loud voices don't mean "most of the people."

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Originally Posted by Fivefold

There are literally millions of players in this game.

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Are there though? SE won't release actual numbers only their promotional numbers which are far from accurate for the total currently subbed population and the estimates ppl gather from achievements and what not beg to differ. Just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true.

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Originally Posted by Barachim

Definitely not a good look when a character is being put front and center in a new expansion and the character can't even break into the Top 10 of the Japanese fan poll. I think even Wuk Evu took a Top 10 spot.

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The Chinese community did a most liked/disliked poll with ~10k participants, and Wuk won most disliked with over 70% of the vote. I think Sphene and Zoraal Ja took second and third.

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Originally Posted by Yoshihara

The funeral came off as emotionless, detached and awkward.

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you're dealing with a population that has never had to face the notion of death before there. i wonder why the funeral would be all of those things given that context. not only that, along with the dungeon, these things work together to set the tone going forward.

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Originally Posted by glassflower

you're dealing with a population that has never had to face the notion of death before there. i wonder why the funeral would be all of those things given that context. not only that, along with the dungeon, these things work together to set the tone going forward.

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Yes of course! Stating the obvious (again) clearly absolves the lack of camera direction and pacing, the extremely shallow dialogue that doesn't provide any friction because the writers no longer know how to write conflict or even grieving anymore!
Amazing! All of the people dissenting about the poor writing are wrong and let's continue to remind people who care about the story but are no longer enjoying it that they can always skip the cutscenes!