Even our content creators cannot pretend to like the trashy writings of Dawntrail.

I wouldn't put Zepla as an example tbh BUT the fact preach had so many issues with it says a lot, and he doesn't beat around the bush.

Imo the MSQ had really good high points but too many low points, and MANY filler quests or at least stuff that felt too long.
OST placements in Cutscenes (yes the Disney song) along side terrible VA direction, even some of the scions sounded bad or at least Quality wise felt off.
hoping it does get addressed but overall I did enjoy Dawntrail more so with the Gameplay (Dungeons, Trials and Raids)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Igneel_DB

I wouldn't put Zepla as an example tbh BUT the fact preach had so many issues with it says a lot, and he doesn't beat around the bush.

Imo the MSQ had really good high points but too many low points, and MANY filler quests or at least stuff that felt too long.
OST placements in Cutscenes (yes the Disney song) along side terrible VA direction, even some of the scions sounded bad or at least Quality wise felt off.
hoping it does get addressed but overall I did enjoy Dawntrail more so with the Gameplay (Dungeons, Trials and Raids)

---

It really does feel like a Live Action Disney movie. The poor quality, combined with that OST, and the attitudes of the people responsible for said quality... It really just feels like they took a look at the abominations Disney has been putting out lately, and went "Let's do that, but in an MMORPG."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Creampi

Zepla:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2192405696?t=6h49m14s

https://imgur.com/a/1XYpgyo

---

Not that I don't care what their opinion is we are different people and might have different interests but if anyone's opinion based on MMO storytelling I am going to listen to it going to be Preach

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearcat01

Yeah, I’ve been watching Cider’s MSQ journey once he got to zone 6. He did NOT seem to be enjoying himself, and had much to complain about the MSQ experience. Him trolling chat with the credits though was damn funny.

---

I had time now to watch him also.
Not gonna lie and no matter what one might think of the story.
Starting 09:01:00 made me laugh.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2203586008

That was actually my own reaction there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I had time now to watch him also.
Not gonna lie and no matter what one might think of the story.
Starting 09:01:00 made me laugh.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2203586008

That was actually my own reaction there.

---

Mine as well. I actually logged off for the night, the very instant I got control of my character. I was done.

First thing I did upon logging back in, however...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...510a3b0496126&

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isala

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...510a3b0496126&

---

This is one of the funniest images I've ever seen. You will smile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isala

First thing I did upon logging back in, however...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...510a3b0496126&

---

I made the mistake of looking up the song awarded from that roll, as I haven't beat the MSQ yet, and boy howdy is that an offense to my senses. Who cleared that for release?

Smile has to be the worst credits song we have ever had.
Bring back Susan for another epic ballad already!

All the budget went into the Arcadion songs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Smile has to be the worst credits song we have ever had.
Bring back Susan for another epic ballad already!

---

She got cancelled some time back for like a tweet or something.

I've loved Dawntrail's story. It was a nice wholesome ride that was the perfect step-down from the high of Endwalker's literal universe-ending stakes, was fun to be the "mysterious mentor everybody can tell at a glance is the most dangerous person in the room guiding an inexperienced character on their own journey" archetype for a while, and it had some solid emotional beats and a stake-raiser that let me go back to being the main character for a bit.

Everybody is entitled to their own experience of course but my main question here is why should I care what some twitch streamer or a youtuber says?

Them not liking the story isn't going to somehow magically make me go "oh well if the YOUTUBERS didn't like it I guess I have to hate it now". Personally I think people put way, way too much stock in what content creators think. Either that or y'all just need to chill out with the seeking validation from people who make videos about video games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oku-1

Them not liking the story isn't going to somehow magically make me go "oh well if the YOUTUBERS didn't like it I guess I have to hate it now". Personally I think people put way, way too much stock in what content creators think. Either that or y'all just need to chill out with the seeking validation from people who make videos about video games.

---

It's because "content creators" have all the incentive in the world to lie (they run the risk of losing access / promos). If even they can't bring themselves to say its good, then it brings more weight to the argument that it is indeed... not good.

Also, they have a more direct line with devs, so they saying that might yield positive outcomes in the future.

And I say this as someone who profoundly dislikes "influencer culture" and can't stomach watching any of them for more than 5 minutes.

Yes, because we should put a lot of stock into the opinions of content creators.

/sarcasm

Zepla is trash.

If this makes Zepla quit the FF Content creation scene, i'll take all the Dawntrail controversy we can get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

The writing in dawntrail was good. I get the feeling people who didn't like it can only appreciate the parts of literature when things are coming to a climax. world-building, character development over time, these things are still good parts of stories.

---

You should not be aware what you're experiencing in a game is world building when it is being executed correctly. Even in books, it's not like "ok this is the part where I world build". It's woven into dialogue, characters, environments. It's not just in the new story of the arc either. It's everywhere outside maybe the conclusion. Why do people keep using this excuse???

This is where DT fails in my opinion. It constantly leans on the "I'm new here" crutch as it blasts you with "isn't this what you expect from a new MMO arc" cliche. It does not trust the audience to be intrigued, even by something minute and seemingly uninteresting. It fails to explore the mundane parts of this new world in unexpected or novel ways.

I'm reminded of the camp fire scene with Jullus in EW. He was a new character whose story was mostly self contained in a new EW plot development. That was a moment where I think it was fair to expect we would just see him sulking. But the writer really cared enough to show us those two cultures healing. It feels cathartic because of the build up of the zone. DT has no such buildup to speak of and its more mundane moments stay pretty shallow.

In DT you heal cultures by like...helping them with fetch quests? Which is why the sesame street music blasts of Smile ring hollow. It's like "what the hell is even going on right now?" when it plays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

You should not be aware what you're experiencing in a game is world building when it is being executed correctly. Even in books, it's not like "ok this is the part where I world build". It's woven into dialogue, characters, environments. It's not just in the new story of the arc either. It's everywhere outside maybe the conclusion. Why do people keep using this excuse???

---

Nah nah nah, the only true world-building is learning about farming, food, and soil composition. You know, inane stuff. If you don't find it interesting, even if its poorly written, you have no appreciation for culture or literature. This is THE first world building expansion.

Ishgard's long twisted history of war with the dragons and its ramifications that can be seen throughout the isolationist city-state? Yawn.
Their strict, almost archaic, judicial system that exhumes any perceived heresy and upholds trial by combat? Boring.
The criminal underbelly of the city striking out at the High Born nobles and the theocratic government controlled by the corrupt orthodox church? Snore.
The people's paranoid attitudes towards the growing threat of the Dravanians that is fueled by centuries of lies and propaganda? Lame.

I want REAL world building...

The Hanuhanu like to party and do a festival to grow their crops, except when they forget? YESSS!
The Mamool Ja are pissed at everyone cause they can't grow their crops because the soil sucks? WOW!
The Alexandrians grow their crops with artificial lights and sprinklers and some of the older folks don't trust refrigerators? NO WAY!

Come on Yoshi, more of this REAL insightful and interesting world-building!

I think the biggest reason DT has such strong backlash isn't just that it has poor world building or even writing mistakes in general. What's really concerning is that Yoshi P signed off on it and didn't correct it. There is a clear issue with this expansion where the team was either forced to release this, or released it and just didn't care.

"Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again."

It almost comes across like "help us".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I think the biggest reason DT has such strong backlash isn't just that it has poor world building or even writing mistakes in general. What's really concerning is that Yoshi P signed off on it and didn't correct it. There is a clear issue with this expansion where the team was either forced to release this, or released it and just didn't care.

"Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again."

It almost comes across like "help us".

---

Idk how SE decided this is the guy that should be in charge of DT MSQ:
https://novacrystallis.com/wp-conten...L3XEAEEJa2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I think the biggest reason DT has such strong backlash isn't just that it has poor world building or even writing mistakes in general. What's really concerning is that Yoshi P signed off on it and didn't correct it. There is a clear issue with this expansion where the team was either forced to release this, or released it and just didn't care.

"Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again."

It almost comes across like "help us".

---

THIS. This is concerning. Because sure the writer is bad, but it's not just one person...shouldn't be. They said Ishikawa was in a supervising role. What does that mean? Did she read the MSQ? Though I think if I remember corerctly by reading the credits, she was just credited as "Senior Story Designer". What does that mean? Did she only decide on the themes and some plot points, and then never read it again as the main writers tried to connect the themes together?
And not only her, but there's a whole team, there's more than one senior writer there, and there's YoshiP and everyone at Square Enix. How did that get approved? How did no one notice the difference? Did something go extremely wrong? Were there rewrites they had no control over? WHAT HAPPENED??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chizLemons

THIS. This is concerning. Because sure the writer is bad, but it's not just one person...shouldn't be. They said Ishikawa was in a supervising role. What does that mean? Did she read the MSQ? Though I think if I remember corerctly by reading the credits, she was just credited as "Senior Story Designer". What does that mean? Did she only decide on the themes and some plot points, and then never read it again as the main writers tried to connect the themes together?
And not only her, but there's a whole team, there's more than one senior writer there, and there's YoshiP and everyone at Square Enix. How did that get approved? How did no one notice the difference? Did something go extremely wrong? Were there rewrites they had no control over? WHAT HAPPENED??

---

I only have a few days left of my sub, but am losing hope that we'll ever have a response to this. I appreciate that to some people the story isn't that important, and that the other aspects of Dawntrail that were done well can more than make up for it. But I don't think I could physically play through anymore MSQ or expansions if they are written like Dawntrail. It was almost a viceral, painful reaction by the end, and it was such a shock as I have LOVED everything MSQ, even from ARR. This story had to go through so many people, so many must have thought it was great, that I just can't trust that it won't be more of the same in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

Zepla is trash.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Volgia

If this makes Zepla quit the FF Content creation scene, i'll take all the Dawntrail controversy we can get.

---

I don't even watch the woman, but you guys sure are making very convincing arguments by blindly hating on her. I'm sure whatever she did definitely deserves this unprovoked reaction :) It's wonderful when the XIV hardliners show their real colors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

snip.

---

Even if it were pure expository segments with dumb fetch quests (which is terrible writing and terrible gameplay), what we're offered is an infantilized caricature. Ul'dah is my favorite starting city-state, and the comparison is night and day.
Within the first 25 levels, you get to see that:
- Ul'Dah is a beautiful city in the desert, bustling with commerce and craftsmanship;
- By virtue of that, Ul'Dah is very well-connected and quite innovative (alchemy guild, lots of mercantile trade routes, guilds of magic);
- In Ul'Dah, wealth is the measure of a man's worth, to the point it's tied to their religion ("divinity is the color of gold" on every fountain, the Ossuary rewards better tombs and rites of interment to the wealthy who donate, etc);
- Ul'Dah paid the highest price, in wealth and man, in the battle of Cartenau;
- Their entertainment is tied to gambling, and it's seen as a legitimate avenue of wealth acquisition (Gold Saucer, gladiatorial matches, etc);
All lovely, right? But, on the flip side, you also see:
- Ul'Dah treats the poor and refugees poorly- they, wrongly, believe that you "earn your lot in life", and leaves the Ala Mhigan refugees to starve and bake in the Sun, unwilling to bend to help them, save for rare exceptions, even though they never had a chance to shine or prove their worth;
- The Monetarist faction has an immense amount of influence on the politics and daily life of Ul'Dah, and they will use it to greedily squeeze every bit of profit out of the common citizens they can;
- The Monetarist faction and the Monarchy are at odds, and this friction often leads to problems;
- There is a systemic issue of corruption and bribery in Ul'Dah that reaches all the way to its law enforcement. You're quickly introduced to corrupt members of the Brass Blades, and eventually to spies and corrupt members of the Flames.

So much of this is organically integrated in msq or side quests. Some side quests even delve into Ul'Dah's dark past with the Trader's Spurn. You see the good, the neutral, and the bad. This goes for any of the original city-states, even Ishgard. The racism and religious zeal of Gridania (their disdain of Duskwights, or leaving people to die to appease the Elementals), the crime and piracy of Limsa, the systemic classicism and discrimination in Ishgard, as well as the paranoia regarding dragon-sympathizers brought by the war. Everything is gray, there are good men and cruel men in all these city-states, there is a good, flourishing side to their culture and history but also a dark, grim one.
I get nothing like that in DT. The game even contradicts itself, going on about long-standing problems that are always resolved in a couple of minutes (or days at worse, if it's Gulool Ja Ja's doing). This isn't human. It's so detached from any experience you have- how can I believe this place where everything gets resolved in minutes or is otherwise a perfect fantasy-land? Even in Mamook, we undo decades of strife, suffering and resentment in minutes. I don't know. Maybe it's me, but I just can't really hold my suspension of disbelief.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by antiabz

I only have a few days left of my sub, but am losing hope that we'll ever have a response to this. I appreciate that to some people the story isn't that important, and that the other aspects of Dawntrail that were done well can more than make up for it. But I don't think I could physically play through anymore MSQ or expansions if they are written like Dawntrail. It was almost a viceral, painful reaction by the end, and it was such a shock as I have LOVED everything MSQ, even from ARR. This story had to go through so many people, so many must have thought it was great, that I just can't trust that it won't be more of the same in the future.

---

I don't think there's a way to apologize for the story being bad because ultimately, story quality is subjective and by apologizing for it you are indirectly telling people who did enjoy it that they are mistaken. All they can really do is just do better with the patches imo.

That said, I'm in the same boat and next expansion I'm happily waiting for reviews.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

get nothing like that in DT. The game even contradicts itself, going on about long-standing problems that are always resolved in a couple of minutes (or days at worse, if it's Gulool Ja Ja's doing). This isn't human. It's so detached from any experience you have- how can I believe this place where everything gets resolved in minutes or is otherwise a perfect fantasy-land? Even in Mamook, we undo decades of strife, suffering and resentment in minutes. I don't know. Maybe it's me, but I just can't really hold my suspension of disbelief.

---

That sums up the first half of DT imo. There's just a glaring problem and what's worse, is that this occurs multiple times in succession. Also stories like the XIIIth and Alexandria seem like they should have been full xpacs. They're huge victims of telling vs showing and pretty quick wrap ups, even though they take slightly longer to resolve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I don't think there's a way to apologize for the story being bad because ultimately, story quality is subjective and by apologizing for it you are indirectly telling people who did enjoy it that they are mistaken. All they can really do is just do better with the patches imo.

That said, I'm in the same boat and next expansion I'm happily waiting for reviews.

---

No, story QUALITY isn't subjective. There are subjective elements to it, but there's also many elements that define if a piece of writing is objectively higher quality.
The enjoyment a piece of writing gives you is subjective - your personal preferences, the emotional responses you had to the writing, even your cultural background and how that affects your enjoyment of it. That's the subjective part.

The objective part are the technical issues we can easily point out in Dawntrail: inconsistent writing, clarity and coherense, the technical issues. Grammar and syntax are also objective problems, which thankfully I don't think is an issue here.
For example, Bakool Ja Ja's character development. You can like it, be emotionally invested into it. The idea is fine, the character is likeable to a lot of people, but the technical part of his development is low quality. His personality changes too suddenly from one zone to the other, and he immediately starts talking like a different character and trusting Wuk Lamat, after just trying to kill her and showing no signs of redemption before. We don't see in any of his prior actions anything that would point out to this development, and his past actions are dismissed and of no consequence anymore. This is OBJECTIVELY bad.

No one is wrong for enjoying something that is "objectively bad", but that doesn't make the thing good. I feel like people have a lot of trouble accepting that.
At the same time, if you don't like something that's considered "objectively good", you're also not wrong. That doesn't make the thing bad.

The issue with Dawntrail is that, from what we've seen in the past, these objective quality problems were not there in past expansions. For people that are more used to noticing stuff like that, it's very glaring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I think the biggest reason DT has such strong backlash isn't just that it has poor world building or even writing mistakes in general. What's really concerning is that Yoshi P signed off on it and didn't correct it. There is a clear issue with this expansion where the team was either forced to release this, or released it and just didn't care.

"Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again."

It almost comes across like "help us".

---

I wouldn‘t go that far.
I don‘t think anyone held a gun to their head to write the story like that.

They tried something new and probably genuinely thought people would love Wuk Lamat or at least enough to drown the complaints.
They probably sit together right now and think about how they could be so wrong.

Yoshida himself said that he is more and more hands off with the ff14 development in one interview.
I guess he delegated the story this time instead of looking over it in the end (if I remember correctly he said somewhere before that the story always went over his desk at the end).
He probably payed more attention to the combat design and graphics update this time.
He is only one person after all.

The idea itself is good.
You need writers without Ishikawa and you can‘t rely on the big boss controlling everything forever.
The problem could be that that controlling of stuff has been going on for so long that it became the norm for some writers and now it backfired horribly.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if the whole sorrows of werlyt and Pandaemonium were written with heavy handholding and corrections of Ishikawa and Yoshida.

If it helps for the future as a lessons learned then good, that’s whatever game needed. A wake up call for the devs to not tread it as a step child that prints money without any critique.

If they continue this approach into 8.0 then I eat my words because then we have a problem.

Right now I want to see all this as an experiment with fresh blood going wrong.
I still trust the devs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Hm. It's an interesting perspective. I personally see it as symptomatic of two things-- SE's Financials and their outdated development practices. I'm not sure XIV had enough budget or time to handle a new expansion and the graphics update all at once. On top of that, CS3 is expected to also work on new games. For me the question is..Will SE finally do the right thing and allot a proper budget for this game? Can they figure out a different way to have CS3 work on new console games and the MMO at one time that allows the top creators to have an even workload? Those are my suspicions as of now and I hope we see meaningful change next time around.

---

I agree that it shows that the devs probably get less resources than they should.
I also kinda agree with the development practices but in another form.

I think in the past the strict planing through Yoshida was great to bring the game on a certain path.
A bit of railroading is needed for such a thing.
We now probably see the downside of it when there is a phase of change (new writers for example).
Pair that change with a new story beginning and experiments in the expansion and here we are.

I only wished they did such experiments and changes in smaller content or at least said clearly that there would be such a thing.

streamer bad

thumbs down

I never skipped story in Final Fantasy xiv but the last area made me skip for the first time in all my FF xiv game time. It’s so absolutely boring because they want you to care about the endless but on the other hand you can’t be made to care cause they are just memories and not living things so it’s ok to turn them off and not be a genocidal monster. Same with the other area Wuk solving every problem without trying or failing even a little bit. And we do it in less time then even the old king needed. Same as sphene effectively telling us she wanted the genocide for souls and we still help and believe sphene only to be betrayed again after getting the mucuffin back. Also wuk and the talk no jutsu she use is just so irritating because at least naruto had actual character growth and failures happening while Wuk gets everything on a silver plate.

Also the deus ex machina kid so that we have a person that could use the key krile got from the parents after killing his father is just such bad writing it did hurt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I still trust the devs.

---

Not attacking you, but genuinely curious. How? The quality of the entire game has been going downhill for a long time, it was just more noticeable in the MSQ this time, when even taking a look at the rest of the game, you can see signs of decay. Viera and Hrothgar, neutered Job design, more and more missing content every expansion, to the point where our Relics were a simple Tomestone grind...

How do you still have faith in this dev team?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isala

Not attacking you, but genuinely curious. How? The quality of the entire game has been going downhill for a long time, it was just more noticeable in the MSQ this time, when even taking a look at the rest of the game, you can see signs of decay. Viera and Hrothgar, neutered Job design, more and more missing content every expansion, to the point where our Relics were a simple Tomestone grind...

How do you still have faith in this dev team?

---

No offense taken.

The battle content is great, I like the graphic update, the sidequests are quite good and Arcadion has a nice story.
I even see potential in the story itself just badly used.
The lore it gives is great actually.

Yes they lost points with me with that story and the blm changes. Many points actually.

But trusting their abilities and criticizing the here and now are two different things for me.

I hate the story (and will keep showing it) but I wait for the patches even though I know the first one or two are probably already written then I decide for real.

I am who I am. Maybe too trusting, maybe too naive. I’m just some nobody who likes their hobbies and talking about stuff they lik probably too much at times. There is no special reason for that tbh.

Edit:
To bring it down to a few words.
I know they can do better when they get up from sitting on their hands so much the thumbs are probably brown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

This isn't human. It's so detached from any experience you have- how can I believe this place where everything gets resolved in minutes or is otherwise a perfect fantasy-land? Even in Mamook, we undo decades of strife, suffering and resentment in minutes. I don't know. Maybe it's me, but I just can't really hold my suspension of disbelief.

---

(snip)

It's not just you, I feel the same exact way. I've always loved the multilayered ambiguity in the previous settings, and to get immersed in the world.
This new continent isn't real. It's not populated by people. At every step, it feels deliberately constructed, at the same time carefully (so as not to make anyone look bad) and sloppily, without any depth or meaning or humanity or attention to detail.
And any local "problems" can't possibly be taken seriously because they're solved within minutes by a not-all-that-bright contender for the throne who so far hasn't learned anything about their deal at all, by saying "Did you know you should be nice and try to understand each other?" and a bit of help by some outsiders, who don't get to do anything of real consequence but can contribute things like "did you know you can use different plants? We'll send you some". Which makes the locals look even more one-dimensional and stupid.
Generations-spanning conflicts that can only be slowly mended, with old wounds torn open at every step and needing more patching? Please. We've got other places to be, where we repeat the same beats on yet another one-note tribe and their one-note problems.
The entire continent feels as fake, artificially happy, and made for our amusement as the last zone. Except it's not even amusing to go through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaleYonder

(snip)

It's not just you, I feel the same exact way. I've always loved the multilayered ambiguity in the previous settings, and to get immersed in the world.
This new continent isn't real. It's not populated by people. At every step, it feels deliberately constructed, at the same time carefully (so as not to make anyone look bad) and sloppily, without any depth or meaning or humanity or attention to detail.
And any local "problems" can't possibly be taken seriously because they're solved within minutes by a not-all-that-bright contender for the throne who so far hasn't learned anything about their deal at all, by saying "Did you know you should be nice and try to understand each other?" and a bit of help by some outsiders, who don't get to do anything of real consequence but can contribute things like "did you know you can use different plants? We'll send you some". Which makes the locals look even more one-dimensional and stupid.
Generations-spanning conflicts that can only be slowly mended, with old wounds torn open at every step and needing more patching? Please. We've got other places to be, where we repeat the same beats on yet another one-note tribe and their one-note problems.
The entire continent feels as fake, artificially happy, and made for our amusement as the last zone. Except it's not even amusing to go through.

---

Live action Disney movie, all the way through. We even have the power of friendship finale, where Twilight Spar... I mean, Wuk Lamat tries to friendship the final boss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

No offense taken.

The battle content is great, I like the graphic update, the sidequests are quite good and Arcadion has a nice story.
I even see potential in the story itself just badly used.
The lore it gives is great actually.

Yes they lost points with me with that story and the blm changes. Many points actually.

But trusting their abilities and criticizing the here and now are two different things for me.

I hate the story (and will keep showing it) but I wait for the patches even though I know the first one or two are probably already written then I decide for real.

I am who I am. Maybe too trusting, maybe too naive. I’m just some nobody who likes their hobbies and talking about stuff they lik probably too much at times. There is no special reason for that tbh.

Edit:
To bring it down to a few words.
I know they can do better when they get up from sitting on their hands so much the thumbs are probably brown.

---

A measured opinion is rarely welcome on the internet unfortunately. Yes, the MQS was bad, but the game as a whole isn't a trash heap like some are now trying to make out.
Hopefully we either get new writers in the future or considerable oversight for the next MSQ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

A measured opinion is rarely welcome on the internet unfortunately. Yes, the MQS was bad, but the game as a whole isn't a trash heap like some are now trying to make out.
Hopefully we either get new writers in the future or considerable oversight for the next MSQ.

---

I'll be honest.
I was absolutely furious after the MSQ.
The Arcadion story though has calmed me down a bit and I do actually like the sidequests even though Wuk lamat is pretty often mentioned there.
That and the realisation that there is absolutely no way they don't see that feedback and react to it in whatever form actually gives me hope with the writing.

Make no mistake though. I despise the MSQ writing (minus the lore drops) and absolutely hate Wuk Lamat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayer2015

A measured opinion is rarely welcome on the internet unfortunately. Yes, the MQS was bad, but the game as a whole isn't a trash heap like some are now trying to make out.
Hopefully we either get new writers in the future or considerable oversight for the next MSQ.

---

Things that are good in DT:
1. Some of the new fights, in the Trials, Raids and Expert Dungeons.
2. The new zones. They are visually gorgeous.
3. The (very few) side quests. They actually go into some decent detail about the world that the MSQ glosses over.
4. Most of the Role Quests. They were goofy, and a nice step back from Blasphemies, but mostly done well. The final fights, with a HEAVY exception of the Ranged fight making you smack a shield 500 times, were fun.

Things that are bad in DT.
1. The MSQ. Both in storytelling and pacing, it falls flat.
2. The (English) voice acting. It's pretty bad. Like, "Who signed off on this?" bad.
3. The Job design. It's still the same terrible design we've had since ShB, now with extra buttons tied to 2 minute CDs. A bad idea on DPS, and then they copy pasted that to healers, to somehow make healers suck more than they already do.
4. Viera and Hrothgar. Still. This is unacceptable for a company of SE's size.
5. Hit detection and netcode. This is extremely noticeable in both the Noggin boss, and the hearts in the Bee fight.
6. Leveling dungeons. They still suck. God, do they suck. Hallway into boring boss into hallway into boring boss into hallway into boring boss. All using the same mechanics they always have, just with fancier tells. Sure, they're pretty, but that's all they have going for them.
7. Wuk Lamat. Yes, I'm separating her from the MSQ, because she also ruins a perfectly good trial that you will end up running multiple times, unlike the singular MSQ run.

Look, I'll be real, DT is suffering. There are good points in there, but even then, those have the caveat of "yeah, but..." Some fights are fun, but you also have to deal with the crappy job design. And the fights that aren't, REALLY aren't fun. The new zones are gorgeous, but what exactly do you do in them? Are you a gatherer, smacking the same few corners of the world, staring at a wall or a tree? Maybe you hunt train, where you can't see the world anyway below the hundred other players? They're wide open and empty. Even the Fates are spread out like this is an open world with bandit camps. There are so few side quests now that you can't even level with them, so there's no real interesting content to be found behind them anymore, outside of the few actually well designed plot points. And the Role Quests are just as divisive as the MSQ for people. You either liked the humor, and rolled with it, or you hated it. I've seen both.

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Originally Posted by PaleYonder

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It's not just you, I feel the same exact way. I've always loved the multilayered ambiguity in the previous settings, and to get immersed in the world.
This new continent isn't real. It's not populated by people. At every step, it feels deliberately constructed, at the same time carefully (so as not to make anyone look bad) and sloppily, without any depth or meaning or humanity or attention to detail.
And any local "problems" can't possibly be taken seriously because they're solved within minutes by a not-all-that-bright contender for the throne who so far hasn't learned anything about their deal at all, by saying "Did you know you should be nice and try to understand each other?" and a bit of help by some outsiders, who don't get to do anything of real consequence but can contribute things like "did you know you can use different plants? We'll send you some". Which makes the locals look even more one-dimensional and stupid.
Generations-spanning conflicts that can only be slowly mended, with old wounds torn open at every step and needing more patching? Please. We've got other places to be, where we repeat the same beats on yet another one-note tribe and their one-note problems.
The entire continent feels as fake, artificially happy, and made for our amusement as the last zone. Except it's not even amusing to go through.

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this is the biggest issue with dawntrail. we've seen the results of political upheaval over and over in FF14. we see religion, class structure, public opinion on dragons and so many more things change in Ishgard. we see the struggles of a resistance faction as it transitions into a government in Ala Mihgo.

the dawntrail msq was written with no political thought at all, compared to EVERY other expansion it feels like a movie set. a fake place. Gulool Jaja shows up and has a few chats and unites the entire country. wuk lamat fixes 80+ years of distrust and isolationism with a verbal promise that they'll import some crops from sharlyan.

Alexandria is written as if the writers don't really seem to have any idea what the opinions of it's people even are they just accept the regulators and even people without them just sorta seem blasé about it. the resistance vaguely opposes zoraal ja but mostly because he wants war, there's no real acknowledgement that they know he (and sphene) are planning to soul suck other worlds.

the depth isn't there and it makes tural feel like a fake place. Shadowbringers was arguably the least "political fiction" focused expac, but there were still factions with believable motivations and outlooks that opposed each other and had conflict that couldn't be resolved with some power of friendship platitudes.

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Originally Posted by Strike_

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I completely agree. When I was playing through DT I couldn't help but think back on a young idealistic Alphinaud when he told the Alliance they should help Ishgard because it was the right thing to do and for no other reason and Merlwyb told him that her first responsibility was to her people and then to the Alliance and IF there was anything left over, everyone else, and if he didn't understand that he had no business at that table. That's the reality of politics. Everyone can't have their way. You can't just do everything for everyone. There is only so much to go around.

DT felt like politics for babies, where a guy went around and united an entire continent of warring factions under him by talking to them. Wut?! That's not how anything works. People fight for a reason. The Mamool Ja weren't attacking the Xbr'aal for no reason. They were low on resources. Galool Ja Ja stopped the fighting with a talk and a meal, but the problem that motivated the hundreds of years of war was still there for another 80 years...

There people were willing to bury thousands of their own children to get out of their situation, but then they just decide to live with it for 80 years cause Galool Ja Ja tells them that people from the East might one day attack...Can they eat the people from the East? If not, they still have a pressing issue that needs to be resolved.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

I completely agree. When I was playing through DT I couldn't help but think back on a young idealistic Alphinaud when he told the Alliance they should help Ishgard because it was the right thing to do and for no other reason and Merlwyb told him that her first responsibility was to her people and then to the Alliance and IF there was anything left over, everyone else, and if he didn't understand that he had no business at that table. That's the reality of politics. .

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Oh yeah, those were the days. And my goodness, can you imagine if we didn't have a princess ascension plot nor the father, but came in with someone like Merlwyb ruling, with the way she makes decisions and the way the game's politics used to be written? The narrative possibilities fan out into infinity for interesting story threads that could have come from that. We wouldn't have had to walk across the map looking for issues to resolve or any coherent plot to find us, we could have thrown a pebble at the map at random, and it'd have hit a conflict herd no matter what that could have been spun on into any bigger plot, no matter how regional or world-ending-once-again.

Insanely boring expansion, storywise, walk there, walk back, talk talk talk, get rewarded food and a very tiny sum of XP... This expansion is marketed focusing on exploration and stuff. Were are the secret bosses, the treasures etc. FF14 is starting to get really stale.

In WoW you find treasures everywhere, secret bosses to kill for unique items, toys etc :\

Feels like FF11 did exploration better than 14.

Sure, dumbing down mechanics and putting everyone on a straight line is easier, but it loses alot when it comes to socialising, asking other players questions, watching walktroughs etc to find secret items and stuff. The overall world is really dull with nothing to do besides following the MSQ, doing dungeons, trials, raids, alliance raid the same dull system that has followed since HW. ARR experimented more when it first released "Green and Pink" items from dungeons as an example, but alot of things were removed and dumbed down over time.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

young idealistic Alphinaud

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if Wuk Lamat had founded the Crystal Braves in Dawntrail they would have been the most upstanding heroes in the land and been unfailingly loyal to Wuk.