Would you be opposed to SE implementing a program to scan for addons/parsers?

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

No but surely they could do something server side or api side that doesn’t just allow people to throw files in on their pc and it says “yeah sure, I’ll render this cheat for you showing safe spaces on your screen”

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Don't know how those work, I'm not even sure they use the same framework as what most add-on use, but I'm pretty sure you could just fetch some data in the computer's memory to get camera position, angle etc. so that you can use another software to draw AoEs and whatnot. Pretty sure that's what being done already, too.

It's not like mods, where you, as far as I know, actually change some data in the game files (or at least redirect them), because in that case, you just need to read your own VRAM/RAM, so yeah, you can't do that serverside unless you actually scan the computer itself.

Idk either, but I think Wow uses something in the battlenet launcher and they use an api to control things mods can access, but I don’t know if this is a big issue in WoW too.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Idk either, but I think Wow uses something in the battlenet launcher and they use an api to control things mods can access, but I don’t know if this is a big issue in WoW too.

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It was at one time, wow does use an anticheat now because add-ons got to where they would show you the layout of abilities before the ability came up so you knew the safe spot every time in fights. I never use this but I remember them commenting on it and then adding an anti cheat to kill that addon and try to prevent future ones like that.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

It was at one time, wow does use an anticheat now because add-ons got to where they would show you the layout of abilities before the ability came up so you knew the safe spot every time in fights. I never use this but I remember them commenting on it and then adding an anti cheat to kill that addon and try to prevent future ones like that.

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The WOW anticheat is Warden, and it was first added to Blizzard games in 2005, long before the AVR addon began trivialising mechanics in the Icecrown Citadel raid in 2010.

In fact, the AVR AddOn did not do anything prevented by the Warden anticheat scanning, and instead used entirely-legal API functions within WOW's sanctioned AddOn system.

Shortly after the ICC release, the WOW AddOn API itself was actually directly-changed to specifically break AVR's functionality.

Imagine caring about what people does against PVE content.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

The WOW anticheat is Warden, and it was first added to Blizzard games in 2005, long before the AVR addon began trivialising mechanics in the Icecrown Citadel raid in 2010.

In fact, the AVR AddOn did not do anything prevented by the Warden anticheat scanning, and instead used entirely-legal API functions within WOW's sanctioned AddOn system.

Shortly after the ICC release, the WOW AddOn API itself was actually directly-changed to specifically break AVR's functionality.

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Cept it didn't complete break it, has returned a few times or something similar (mythic archimode had something similar I believe)

No I would be fine with it I don't have anything to hide and why not put camera in our houses so police can monitor criminal. Since most people don't partake in criminal activities it should be ok. /s

This comes down to two questions:

1. Would I be okay with them violating the law in japan?
2. If they can't scan in japan, would I be okay with JP players having the unfair advantage of cheats when the rest of the world can't?

If there was a way they could do it without actively impeding legitimate players, then sure, but history has shown that automated anti-cheats tend to hinder normal players as much as if not more then the cheaters due to how easily they can be circumvented.

I mostly wish they'd come down harder on the people using bots and other forms of cheating that are readily observable in-game and not only visible because someone is streaming gameplay footage.

yes, like i do with any other game that does that

I don't get all the FUD around anti-cheat in a multiplayer game. I've played many games with anti-cheats that work and don't cause any problems. My computer still works, my games work and I don't have any issues with software. I've seen people get bans because they've used the same VPN as a cheater but that was over a decade ago in some obscure FPS game that's dead now. Likewise, Luke from LTT (LinusTechTips) got banned by Blizzard's anti-cheat because he left Visual Studio open when playing (and one part of that IDE includes a memory debugger that reads the memory of running processes which is also something many legitimate cheats do).

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

It was at one time, wow does use an anticheat now because add-ons got to where they would show you the layout of abilities before the ability came up so you knew the safe spot every time in fights. I never use this but I remember them commenting on it and then adding an anti cheat to kill that addon and try to prevent future ones like that.

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WoW's anti-cheat is separate from the add-on framework. Warden is to stop bots such as Honorbuddy (rotation bot was one function of this paid cheat back in WoD/Legion) or Tmorph (allowed you to change the model/armour of your character locally before transmog (glamour) was an official game function in Cataclysm).

Blizzard control addons and have broken things such as AVR and certain WeakAura functionality. More importantly, they can live patch the game client to change some of this behaviour without having to do server maintenance or even pushing a new download via the Battle.net launcher.

There's massive misinformation about addons in WoW and in reality, the extreme end of plugins in XIV is much more egregious than anything you can do in current World of Warcraft.

I'd say Blizzard do a much better job at enforcing their terms of service via more effective punishments. Honorbuddy ban waves in WoD/Legion were a prime example of this. It wasn't an instant permanent suspension for this, it was 6-month (first time) and 18-months (second time) suspensions alongside returning to your characters have no gear, inventory or gold (Gil in XIV).

More importantly, and SE have never seemingly done this, is that the ban wave dropped during peak raiding hours. Honorbuddy ban waves hit during peak hours when more people would be raiding etc and you'd be more likely to notice your guilds top DPS players, for example, suddenly going offline. They knew it would kill guilds etc but did it anyway.

The closest thing XIV has to this is Party Finder being less active when plugins are broken during the first few days post patch. We all know those people that suddenly don't play because their totally legitimate third party tools are broken, maybe you should think twice about them next time.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

This comes down to two questions:

1. Would I be okay with them violating the law in japan?
2. If they can't scan in japan, would I be okay with JP players having the unfair advantage of cheats when the rest of the world can't?

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It's also illegal to mod in Japan, according to Japan association of copyright for computer software illegally modding a game or console is possible by up 5 years in jail and up to $5 million yen if caught. They fall under the unfair competition prevention law

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Says the garbage DRG. Anyone notice that only bad players are anti mod?

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I have nothing against things like ACT, but saying you're a better player for utilizing a tool over those who don't is pretty questionable.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I'm defending non cheating. Unnamed didn't cheat. Try again

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lmao what?

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

It was at one time, wow does use an anticheat now because add-ons got to where they would show you the layout of abilities before the ability came up so you knew the safe spot every time in fights.

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If an addon was able to solve a mechanic it was usually quickly broken by Blizzard. Not to mention they do look closely at teams participating in the "world first" race and can even react when something unexpected happens.

Aside from that FF14 going more and more challenging in terms of mechanics will only force the development of third-party tools to aid players with them. The same thing happened in WoW where addons didn't have to be hidden from public view. There will be more and more clips leaking out showing such tools and plugins and I would imagine at some point SE will get triggered to a point where they will actually take pro-active action and add a detection system to check if assets or executable was modified or they will allow for addons and start the same somewhat dumb dependency of designing EX/Savage with addons in mind (and then even "standard" content) and players having to use them and put more and more time in their development. Static won't be able to start progging without having someone that can code required triggers and addons.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Says the garbage DRG. Anyone notice that only bad players are anti mod?

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Firemage I know this is bait, but you must understand that we as players do not get to the final say as to what is or is not cheating. The SE team views it as an unfair advantage ans ruins the integrity of the content. In their eyes this is fact and they govern the rules of the game.

Mods are cheating in FFXIV end of story.

I do fall in the camp they should allow for the use of mods and add-ons but let's not kid ourselves we know it is not looked kindly on in FFXIV and to act otherwise is disingenuous.

Edit: Mods are prohibited in FFXIV. Some tools allow cheats others convenience either way in the eyes of SE that is against the TOS thus a violation. We can say till we are blue in the face it should be okay but it is not. Let's not defend people that willingly broke the ToS and got caught. They knew what they were doing and choose to take the risk. Respect their choice, and respect the punishment if it happens. Don't try to defend the willful actions of people that knew they were doing wrong.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Firemage I know this is bait, but you must understand that we as players do not get to the final say as to what is or is not cheating. The SE team views it as an unfair advantage ans ruins the integrity of the content. In their eyes this is fact and they govern the rules of the game.

Mods are cheating in FFXIV end of story.

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There is a little more nuance than you're giving it though.

Zoom hacks? Yeah I'd say that's cheating.
Letting Viera wear hats? While against ToS, I wouldn't call that "cheating".

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Originally Posted by Iyrnthota

There is a little more nuance than you're giving it though.

Zoom hacks? Yeah I'd say that's cheating.
Letting Viera wear hats? While against ToS, I wouldn't call that "cheating".

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Fine don't call it cheating nevertheless it is a prohibited action within FFXIV end of the day it is something they devs have repeatedly asked the community to not use or do in of form of don't use or be open about the use of third party add-ons or tools.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

What I can say is that everyone above 90% parse is cheating, and probably even everyone above 80%.

Good luck competing with people who cheat when you don't. Parses are based on the community's performance, it's not some hypothetical. It is based on the state of reality. The reality is that cheating is widespread in this game, so much that people feel entitled to defend breaking ToS on the official forums openly.

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You have 0 idea what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Fine don't call it cheating nevertheless it is a prohibited action within FFXIV end of the day it is something they devs have repeatedly asked the community to not use or do in of form of don't use or be open about the use of third party add-ons or tools.

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It was "Don't ask; Don't tell" for a while. Yoshi-p knows there is tons of mods out there they give no tactical advantage whatsoever and are simply engravings on a revolver and nothing more...

However when you broadcast to the world you are using them...you are inviting trouble.

They broadcasted to the world...and trouble showed up.

Color me shocked.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

It was "Don't ask; Don't tell" for a while. Yoshi-p knows there is tons of mods out there they give no tactical advantage whatsoever and are simply engravings on a revolver and nothing more...

However when you broadcast to the world you are using them...you are inviting trouble.

They broadcasted to the world...and trouble showed up.

Color me shocked.

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Yoshi-P hit squad when they sense your power level.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...l-t500x500.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

It's also illegal to mod in Japan, according to Japan association of copyright for computer software illegally modding a game or console is possible by up 5 years in jail and up to $5 million yen if caught. They fall under the unfair competition prevention law

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True, but two wrongs don't make a right. Square don't get to illegally access computers just because somebody MIGHT have modded. Law don't work like that.

And that's WHY it breaks down into only those two questions. Everything else is a side argument that don't really matter.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Fine don't call it cheating nevertheless it is a prohibited action within FFXIV end of the day it is something they devs have repeatedly asked the community to not use or do in of form of don't use or be open about the use of third party add-ons or tools.

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Going by the ToS, Discord is against the ToS. Can we ban discord? I would love for some push to talk features in this game that can be moderated by GMs rather than a random discord server.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

What I can say is that everyone above 90% parse is cheating, and probably even everyone above 80%.

Good luck competing with people who cheat when you don't. Parses are based on the community's performance, it's not some hypothetical. It is based on the state of reality. The reality is that cheating is widespread in this game, so much that people feel entitled to defend breaking ToS on the official forums openly.

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That's the most hilarious take I've read all day.
And slightly overused. "Everyone who is better than me must be cheating" is as old as gaming itself.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

That's the most hilarious take I've read all day.
And slightly overused. "Everyone who is better than me must be cheating" is as old as gaming itself.

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Lol.

Lmao even.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

That's the most hilarious take I've read all day.
And slightly overused. "Everyone who is better than me must be cheating" is as old as gaming itself.

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It's kind of like blaming the game for "cheating" every time we got a game over as a kid, which I'm sure we all did at some point or another.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's kind of like blaming the game for "cheating" every time we got a game over as a kid, which I'm sure we all did at some point or another.

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Erm, we call it lag now.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's kind of like blaming the game for "cheating" every time we got a game over as a kid, which I'm sure we all did at some point or another.

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Yep. Definitely called Tetris unfair when I was a kid. Or some levels on Mario. I think I grew out of it when I reached my teens, though.
Looks like some people didn't.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Going by the ToS, Discord is against the ToS. Can we ban discord? I would love for some push to talk features in this game that can be moderated by GMs rather than a random discord server.

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The fun part about that is that plenty of countries have stuff that contradict their own constitutions. For example, several countries have an ID card... and in their constitution there's very likely a line that says that citizens should not be assigned a serial number as personal identification.
Historically, there's a reason for that. Practically speaking, logistics needs to sort out large groups of people efficiently.

So, yes, it's normal for SE to not persecute every single add-on or third party software used in conjunction with the game. Regardless of whether it adds to it, modifies it, or generally affects gameplay in any way like a Discord voice call. Because it'd be asinine to do so.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's kind of like blaming the game for "cheating" every time we got a game over as a kid, which I'm sure we all did at some point or another.

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Ok, no, to hell with God of War though, that part to get Aphrodite's necklace with the spikes and the rock we need to push was unfair and it shouldn't oneshot you for the rock being displaced because of collision physics!!

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

True, but two wrongs don't make a right. Square don't get to illegally access computers just because somebody MIGHT have modded. Law don't work like that.

And that's WHY it breaks down into only those two questions. Everything else is a side argument that don't really matter.

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I mean it does because cheating there can have REAL LIFE consequences...in most countries it's just bsn from game

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

I mean it does because cheating there can have REAL LIFE consequences...in most countries it's just bsn from game

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...no, that's not how laws work. You don't respond to a crime by doing something illegal. It doesn't miraculously turn your actions legal. This isn't even self-defence.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Going by the ToS, Discord is against the ToS. Can we ban discord? I would love for some push to talk features in this game that can be moderated by GMs rather than a random discord server.

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This argument will never not be stupid.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

What I can say is that everyone above 90% parse is cheating, and probably even everyone above 80%.

Good luck competing with people who cheat when you don't. Parses are based on the community's performance, it's not some hypothetical. It is based on the state of reality. The reality is that cheating is widespread in this game, so much that people feel entitled to defend breaking ToS on the official forums openly.

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Wow, TIL a friend of mine who used to be one of the top DRG's in the US without mods is definitely a cheater because you said so. I'd really like to know where you're pulling your baseless accusations that "everyone" above some number you pulled out of your ass is cheating. Show me proof, right now, or you're just coming up with baseless, emotionally driven crap.

Also, once again, this isn't black and white, YoshiP has stated there are gray areas with mods.

Also, I'd like to know how cosmetic mods are cheating?
Also, I'd like to know how colorblind accessibility mods are cheating?
Also, I'd like to know how the mod that fixes ping for a TON of people (I think it's called Alexander?) is cheating?

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Going by the ToS, Discord is against the ToS. Can we ban discord? I would love for some push to talk features in this game that can be moderated by GMs rather than a random discord server.

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Point is we know their stance, yet we choose to go against it because it is silly. Yet people end up surprised when they get told it is wrong. People should not be shocked if they get in trouble for breaking the ToS.

I accept all the risk using mods and third party tools. SE could bam me for disord and they would be very well within their right. We assume the risk when we break the ToS no matter how silly it is.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Also, I'd like to know how cosmetic mods are cheating?
Also, I'd like to know how colorblind accessibility mods are cheating?
Also, I'd like to know how the mod that fixes ping for a TON of people (I think it's called Alexander?) is cheating?

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I'd just like to add onto this and give examples.

I know there are mods that change the waymark's font. And I'm on record for saying that I struggle to figure out the weirdly-stylized font sometimes, and the 4 sometimes looks like a weird C or a G. A more standardized font would help with faster recognition. Would this make people suddenly get 90% on parses?
I know there are mods that add hairstyles and hats to Viera and Hrothgar. To the point where they're presented as examples for hairstyles people want to be officially implemented on those races. If someone uses a hair mod, does it automatically make them get purple parses?
And I know that there are people on my server playing from South Africa. Nevermind EU players playing on NA or the need to open OCE servers. South Africa is give-or-take 11870 KM (7377 miles) from the European continent. Does that ping tool instantly give them a purple parse for fixing the ping they'd get for being in over 7K miles away from the datacenter?

And if the answer is "B-But Playstation people can't use mods", well, a) Blame Sony because SE actually wanted to go for it, and b) It's not PC players' fault for others' choice of console.

Buying a clear it's not against TOS, you can recruit other adventurers to help you clear xyz content and pay them in Gil or other services, you can even advertise that you need another 7 adventurers and pay them 1 million gil ot whatever to clear xyz content.
Any mod is against TOS and you should be banned for using it

Its stupid they took action on WORLD race cuse of zoom hack etc.
Nasty ppl advertise nsfw p. On twitter everyday with their full chara name and still not punished. Mods r just pathetic as cheaters.

The punishment feels weak. They can always make new character and prog from that on without getting chased by witchhunters.

Its also stupid overall from the community and the game dev about their take on 3rd party tool.
Just set boundries end of story.

I used to play on ps4 so i know this bs. More kudos to ps player hehe

To know what your parse is you need to be breaking the the TOS, hope you enjoy your ban

Good riddance to all the raiders, bye, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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Originally Posted by solimiano

To know what your parse is you need to be breaking the the TOS, hope you enjoy your ban

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https://i.imgur.com/EDurdJj.png

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Originally Posted by solimiano

Good riddance to all the raiders, bye, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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So you're cool with XIV dying?