Toggle Jump

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Forumites: EVERY OTHER MMO HAS JUMP, UNREALISTIC IF CAN'T JUMP! WANT IMMERSION JUMP, GIVE US NOW!!!:mad::mad:

Devs: But we've built a game where you don't need to jump.:confused:

Forumites: GIVE NOW OR /RAGEQUIT!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Devs: sigh... Ok, we got it working for 2.0. But please understand that it will not have an impact on gameplay. Its just for your immersion.;)

Forumites: WTF DEVS!?! WE GET JUMP AND IT NOT DO NOTHING??! MAKE IT HAVE REASON FOR JUMP!! GIVE US JUMP ZONE FOR MARIO ACTION GAMEPLAY, MAKE FOR BATTLE JUMPING!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Devs: orz, why do we even bother?:(

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Actually the devs wanted to put in jump before ppl asked for it and when they did you guys raged.

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Originally Posted by ScapeZero

So people would rather see people running through objects, running up 90 degree walls a few feet high, and floating over gaps in the ground? Thats more immersive?

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There are no plans for using the jump for -->ANY<-- elements of gameplay it’s just there for those that want to jump.

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I'm not sure if they can make it any more clear.
Interacting with your environment is gameplay. I'm pretty sure the ifrit thing was an example of one of the many things you can't do with it.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

If that ends up being true, the people that ACTUALLY wanted jump in the game are gonna throw a fit and Yoshi-P will probably listen to them eventually since hurr we gotta cater to a wider audience because that works so well right?

Seriously if I can't jump a fence why even have it in the game?

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EXACTLY/10char

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm not sure if they can make it any more clear.
Interacting with your environment is gameplay. I'm pretty sure the ifrit thing was an example of one of the many things you can't do with it.

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I didn't know walking was apart of game play 0.0. That could mean it's not battle related and example he gave leaned towards that cause he said you wouldn't be able to jump out of ifrits plumes but never said you couldn't jump up an cliff. So you can stop spamming that quote.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I didn't know walking was apart of game play 0.0.

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Any part of interacting with a game is considered gameplay.

I spam the quote because it seems like some people are having trouble reading or remembering it.

People calling to toggle jump off have the stench of FFXI elitism. I know some of you, that's what your used to and don't want your delicate FFXI and FFXIV universe tampered with.

But please explain the purpose of the 123092101 emotes that we have. They serve no purpose other than to provide fun, immersion and general silliness.

Every argument you can make for "jumping" being pointless with no reason other than to have it, can be said for emotes. Some of the emotes are horrible, and some people use it way too much.... the cute factor, for some, is just as annoying as the jack rabbit jumping, but you dont' see me calling for a toggle off of all emotes.

You have to feel so entitled to call for a /jump off toggle. My goodness, how dare these WOW players infest my pure FFXI/FFXIV world. If there's jumping in FFXIV, it's the worst thing that can ever happen..... /sarcasm off.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Any part of interacting with a game is considered gameplay.

I spam the quote because it seems like some people are having trouble reading or remembering it.

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I never knew anyone who claims walking as gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I never knew anyone who claims walking as gameplay.

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Heh, then try to play the game without it.

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Originally Posted by Zell

People calling to toggle jump off have the stench of FFXI elitism. I know some of you, that's what your used to and don't want your delicate FFXI and FFXIV universe tampered with.

But please explain the purpose of the 123092101 emotes that we have. They serve no purpose other than to provide fun, immersion and general silliness.

Every argument you can make for "jumping" being pointless with no reason other than to have it, can be said for emotes. Some of the emotes are horrible, and some people use it way too much.... the cute factor, for some, is just as annoying as the jack rabbit jumping, but you dont' see me calling for a toggle off of all emotes.

You have to feel so entitled to call for a /jump off toggle. My goodness, how dare these WOW players infest my pure FFXI/FFXIV world. If there's jumping in FFXIV, it's the worst thing that can ever happen..... /sarcasm off.

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Because jumping is literally putting yourself above everyone else to single yourself out. A lot of us think that's annoying, more so than other emotes (which other games do have a toggle for), and a toggle would hurt no one. It's not like we're demanding it be taken out of the game, but if it serves no purpose than to be an action emote, then letting us turn it off sounds totally reasonable.

I find the anti jump people really childish. I mean really your going to rage on the forum about them adding a new feature to the game? I find its the same group of people that rage over any new addition to the game that wasn't in FFXI, be in content finder, new instances, hamlets not being like besieged what have you. If it was up to you guys there would be no new features in the game.

Some people should just get over themselves and grow up and stop whining about every little new addition to FFXIV. All this rage from some people about having a simple jump feature is just ridiculous.

I don't see any other game community continue complain about having a jump feature, for example go check out Swtor or Aion, or WoW forums I bet you can't find a single topic complaining how there is jumping in those games.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I find the anti jump people really childish. I mean really your going to rage on the forum about them adding a new feature to the game? I find its the same group of people that rage over any new addition to the game that wasn't in FFXI, be in content finder, new instances, hamlets not being like besieged what have you. If it was up to you guys there would be no new features in the game.

Some people should just get over themselves and grow up and stop whining about every little new addition to FFXIV. All this rage from some people about having a simple jump feature is just ridiculous.

I don't see any other game community continue complain about having a jump feature, for example go check out Swtor or Aion, or WoW forums I bet you can't find a single topic complaining how there is jumping in those games.

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You don't see people complaining about jumping in those games because they have a purpose.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Because jumping is literally putting yourself above everyone else to single yourself out. A lot of us think that's annoying, more so than other emotes (which other games do have a toggle for), and a toggle would hurt no one. It's not like we're demanding it be taken out of the game, but if it serves no purpose than to be an action emote, then letting us turn it off sounds totally reasonable.

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I've played many other mmo's with jumping. There are times where I jump 10 in a row, and there are times where I don't jump for an entire week. I don't care what you think of my ability to jump.

Jumping "literally" doesn't hurt anyone. Whatever offense you take to jumping exists solely within your own mind. That's a YOU problem, not a problem per se.

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Originally Posted by Zell

I've played many other mmo's with jumping. There are times where I jump 10 in a row, and there are times where I don't jump for an entire week. I don't care what you think of my ability to jump.

Jumping "literally" doesn't hurt anyone. Whatever offense you take to jumping exists solely within your own mind. That's a YOU problem, not a problem per se.

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Then why are you so adamant about not letting us have a toggle that won't hurt your experience in any way?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm not sure if they can make it any more clear.
Interacting with your environment is gameplay. I'm pretty sure the ifrit thing was an example of one of the many things you can't do with it.

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Im sure this is a improper translation.

People dont want jump to just see their characters jump. It would be an incredible waste of time making a jump animation just for it to be a jump animation. Doing something like this wont make anyone happy, it will just make the entire population mad. It will make the people who dont want jump mad because its a jump, and it will make those who want jump mad, because its god damn useless.

No one ever said "I want jump just so I can see my char jump". They said "Im sick of getting stuck on ankle high everythings, I want to be able to jump over this stupid thing". If the developers think people meant the former...well then I fear what 2.0 will actually be.

Also, yes, they can make it clear. Gameplay can mean a lot of things. It could mean actual platforming, it could mean evading attacks, and it could mean just moving around in the world. A way to make it clear to mean what you think it means would to be say "Its simply an animation. You will not be able to jump over things, off things, etc." Until they say that, Im assuming jump will work just like it does in every other MMO, FPS game, action game, etc, as it would be just a huge waste of time to make an animation thats bound to a key by default. What other animation is bound to a key by default? Why would they say "We added jump! We finally caught up to every other MMO since 2001!" when they really mean "Oh, we just bound a /jump emote to the spacebar?"

Not to mention, the developers have even said they might even add swimming to the game. Though its not looking like that will be in 2.0 launch and might never be added in, why would they say "We are adding in jumping, and we might even add in swimming too." Why would they talk about a way to traverse the world when they are just talking about something that is no more than an emote? It just doesnt make any logical sense to spend even 5 minutes working on a jump feature that doesnt allow you to jump over anything. By "gameplay" they must mean things like platforming, combat, and the such. Things that would require people to jump, rather than just cutting corners in the game world.

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Originally Posted by ScapeZero

I'm sure this is a improper translation....

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I really hope it is. But that's only an assumption right now.

However, if it proves to be just an emote, would a toggle be so bad?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm not sure if they can make it any more clear.
Interacting with your environment is gameplay. I'm pretty sure the ifrit thing was an example of one of the many things you can't do with it.

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It would be funny if it were not so concerning how many people don't seem to get this. On one hand I almost relish the coming anally rampaged sob fest when Jumping doesn't fix all their problems but the future of this game isn't worth the satisfaction of seeing people cry. It is close though.


This is the last time I'm going to repeat myself.

JUMPING
WON'T
FIX
BAD
MAPS

It seems a major hang up people have is the map collision and having a knee high trench halting their progress. Just because your character 'Jumps' doesn't mean he has left the ground as far as the game is concern. You have to create hit boxes and adjust the height for EVERY object in the GAME if you want to be able to actually "Jump" onto and over things. The undertaker we are speaking of is silly in scale. I mean that honesty. Imagine gong back over every single ledge, fence, rock, stream, elevation, and dead Lalafell pile in the game. Then adding a collision map to it. Ensuring it is the proper size so they can hurdle it without clipping. Do you allow them to stand atop the object or is it avoidance only?

If I remember correctly, when they first revealed info on 2.0 they stated something along the lines of using jump to get up platforms and cliffs and such. I'd need to find it again of course.

Also, If they add it i'm ok with it however they do it. If they don't i'm also ok. But for me, not being able to jump is contrary to immersion. Unless we have 10x (Or something) Gravity in this world and our legs can barely keep us standing of course. Also being able to turn off what other people do, is also contrary to immersion. Those people are part of the world and even if what they do is annoying to some, being able to effectively not see it, without ignoring it yourself, is denying a small part of the world.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And uninformed.
Does he know that it's just an animation with no effect on gameplay?
Does he know that other MMO's have emote toggles?

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lol Neither do you. You honestly thinking it's just an emote is your way of denying the inevitable. Jumping is jumping... If it was just an emote Yoshi would have said, an emote that lets players jump. But he said jump for the people who want to jump... It won't help you in combat situations (read: gameplay), but it might help you to jump over a fence.

You'd better be off asking for clarification of what they mean before asking for a toggle for something that it possibly wouldn't even work for.

edit: Yep I'm posting in it too, but because it highly amuses me.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I really hope it is. But that's only an assumption right now.

However, if it proves to be just an emote, would a toggle be so bad?

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I would be perfectly fine with a toggle if its nothing more than an emote.

In fact, I would be on the side of "Take it out of the game, its just plain misleading" if its nothing more than an emote.

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Originally Posted by ScapeZero

I would be perfectly fine with a toggle if its nothing more than an emote.

In fact, I would be on the side of "Take it out of the game, its just plain misleading" if its nothing more than an emote.

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It's not an emote.. i think it's an actual jump, just like any other mmo.

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Originally Posted by Zell

It's not an emote.. i think it's an actual jump, just like any other mmo.

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As do I. I think Yoshi-P was just trying to say that there wont be gameplay elements based around jumping, such as a quest where you need to act like Mario and jump up the sides of a cliff, wont be able to jump and dodge attacks, and wont be areas in the world that require you to jump from ledge to ledge to make it to the other side of the map.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

lol Neither do you. You honestly thinking it's just an emote is your way of denying the inevitable. Jumping is jumping... If it was just an emote Yoshi would have said, an emote that lets players jump. But he said jump for the people who want to jump... It won't help you in combat situations (read: gameplay), but it might help you to jump over a fence.

You'd better be off asking for clarification of what they mean before asking for a toggle for something that it possibly wouldn't even work for.

edit: Yep I'm posting in it too, but because it highly amuses me.

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I know enough about general game design to know that based on what I have been told, it's likley that it's going to be an animation. If you've read this thread, you'd understand that I'm totally in support of clarification and if jumping involves working with the environment, then I'd think a toggle would be pointless.

And you don't have to justify posting in this thread for me. I'm not that kinda guy.

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Originally Posted by Zell

It's not an emote.. i think it's an actual jump, just like any other mmo.

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You think

According to yoshi it won't affect game play at all, this includes battle and traveling.

We honestly need more clarification on it's actual use but if you look at the quote Gramul has been so kind to point to repeatedly, I wouldn't bet on it being particularly useful.

However I honestly hope it's a bad translation or maybe we are interpreting the quote wrongly, but it doesn't seem likely. If it is a glorified emote, honestly the resources would have been better spent on a "slap" button + animation, I'd get far more use out of that <_<

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Originally Posted by Gramul

You don't see people complaining about jumping in those games because they have a purpose.

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Then we should be arguing that jumping should serve a purpose, not for a toggle or to cut it out completely. To forego jumping in a frickin 2012 mmo isn't going to fly. People won't be lenient when you are explaining to them "well some people think it's annoying and the game doesn't need it..." People around here need a reality check.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Devs: But we've built a game where you don't need to jump.

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They haven't. Which is why people complained about it so much at launch when you had to run around every tiny hill you saw, and still complain about not being able to traverse 1 foot high walls like the one in totorak. They've alleviated the problem by making it so you can just slide up and down hills but to leave the game like that screams of laziness and ruins immersion just as much or more than a case of someone incessantly jumping would.

This is just a wild speculation, and maybe some of you with better ideas of AI programming or game mechanic exploitation could comment.

If they do add a reason to jump (i.e. avoiding obstacles) won't this be way too easy to exploit? They would have to add mobs jumping too, in this case. But how is a flan gonna jump?

Which would lead them to program mobs to completely ignore terrain altogether, I'd guess.
Which would make us player characters the only ones falling victim to rough terrain.

Which would suck because normal intended terrain exploitation would be a thing of the past.

Or am I on the wrong track here?

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Originally Posted by Deltara

This is just a wild speculation, and maybe some of you with better ideas of AI programming or game mechanic exploitation could comment.

If they do add a reason to jump (i.e. avoiding obstacles) won't this be way too easy to exploit? They would have to add mobs jumping too, in this case. But how is a flan gonna jump?

Which would lead them to program mobs to completely ignore terrain altogether, I'd guess.
Which would make us player characters the only ones falling victim to rough terrain.

Which would suck because normal intended terrain exploitation would be a thing of the past.

Or am I on the wrong track here?

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Mobs already ignore terrain, and have since FFXI.

The best example of this is early Leves around LL. There is one where a Jellyfish will flee into a cave, and generally will just float up to the top of the cave, and then 10 feet later just float through the ground to the inside of the cave. Mobs dont have great pathing, its not often that they will go around anything, they will either float up it, or in cases like this Jellyfish, just go through it.

To go around this problem, the devs tried to make it so you cant use magic or ranged attacks on mobs that are too far below or above you. However, if you run, or if they flee in a leve, youll see they work just like they did in XI. Im assuming thats how they will still work in 2.0 if you jump over something. They will just float over it like its not even there.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

Since we will be having a jump action in 2.0 it would be really nice if the devs could add a simple option for you to toggle if you can see people jumping or not. I'm happy if people want to jump around for no reason but I don't really want to see people hopping all over cities, so a simple option to toggle it off would be great!

/display jump on /display jump off would do fine, or an option in the menu.

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I'm just not sure why this is even a big deal. There are a ton of things that could use attention in FFXIV right now and you chose this to focus on? Seriously, it's like hopping on the short bus to ride it to school, then complaining the bus is full of retards.

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Originally Posted by Astorlok

I'm just not sure why this is even a big deal. There are a ton of things that could use attention in FFXIV right now and you chose this to focus on? Seriously, it's like hopping on the short bus to ride it to school, then complaining the bus is full of retards.

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Your analogy makes no sense.

I am quite surprised at how far a discussion about jumping can be taken.

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Originally Posted by Pawberry

I am quite surprised at how far a discussion about jumping can be taken.

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Man, you wouldn't believe what the Internet can reveal.

One forum I go to, people started complaining about images being added in the forum, since it would ruin the purity of ASCII art.

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Originally Posted by casker

They haven't. Which is why people complained about it so much at launch when you had to run around every tiny hill you saw, and still complain about not being able to traverse 1 foot high walls like the one in totorak. They've alleviated the problem by making it so you can just slide up and down hills but to leave the game like that screams of laziness and ruins immersion just as much or more than a case of someone incessantly jumping would.

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It's a temporary fix and it's not everywhere, it just makes things less annoying but in La Noscea it's still a pretty big problem.

2.0 maps have been completely redone from the ground up, so to me this leads credence that yes they've been able to add true jumping now if they went ahead and redid everything, why not also add the boxes Gramul was talking about? I don't know I don't see the point of saying yes we have jump if it's just an emote.

@ the above, the ability to jump has been a really hot button topic for FF fans on both sides and why I find it completely hilarious. :o

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Originally Posted by Jacien

Man, you wouldn't believe what the Internet can reveal.

One forum I go to, people started complaining about images being added in the forum, since it would ruin the purity of ASCII art.

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I try and turn these topics around with a little relief.

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Originally Posted by casker

To forego jumping in a frickin 2012 mmo isn't going to fly.

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But that's wrong. You don't need jumping to make a MMO work since few if any have any real core designed based upon the ability to jump. It is just a feature for the players to spam when they are bored in their awesome MMO. EvE Online doesn't have Jumping. FFXI did have jumping. That is because they were not designed or even thought of as a game which requried jumping. FFXIV has done this so far and we haven't needed a jump. Yet they were both quite successful MMO's. You are talking quite directly out of your ass.

Eve online takes place in space, and you control spaceships. FFXIV has 1 foot high walls that you can't get over. One needs jumping, the other doesn't.

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Originally Posted by casker

FFXIV has 1 foot high walls that you can't get over.

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It's obvious that the walls just need to be taller. Jumping isn't required, better wall building is.

you need both. jumping, and where appropriate, taller walls. just don't turn every zone into black shroud.

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Originally Posted by casker

you need both. jumping, and where appropriate, taller walls. just don't turn every zone into black shroud.

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Why exactly do we need jumping?

In your own words please. Don't say to clear small ledges which block your way. That is a problem with map interference. Jumping is a patch job to fix it but the core issue is map design which you do not think should stop you. A context sensitive auto-hurdle would solve the issue without adding a distracting element to gameplay and is honestly easier to code and manage.

So again, what precisely is the driving motive behind Jumping? Aside from other MMO's have it and so should everyone else by default?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You don't see anyone spamming emotes or spamming shout with useless garbage all the time, it's an occasional thing at worst.

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Hyperion must be a server of very well composed people. I see this crap on Rabarandal all the time.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Hyperion must be a server of very well composed people. I see this crap on Rabarandal all the time.

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You should see Aegis, we got this guy who runs around in subligar all day.

The core issue is NOT map design, (strictly speaking in terms of how high walls etc. are not in terms of how repetitive and shitty they may be. then again, the black shroud is a crappy zone because it adheres toyour guys philosophy of making everything bigger)

Map design IS a problem in areas, but there is nothing wrong with the geography and inclines found in, say, la noscea. The hills are perfectly fine in terms of size. The problem is that you can't get over them. The answer is not to just make everything bigger whenever you run into a bump. Or every time you run into a log just make the log gargantuan. Part of a natural world design is going to be those small hills. Part of a natural word design is going to be non-gargantuan logs. And you need to be able to naturally overcome those without having to run around them because you are anchored to the ground.

Making EVERYTHING, ANY possible obstacle huge to keep you from wanting to jump over it is asinine. That is not good world design. That's how you get The Black Shroud, nothing to traverse, walls are all gigantic so you can't pass them. Some things can be huge if you want them to be un-passable, but not everything needs to be huge.

Ultimately, what you need is a tool to traverse these retarded 1-foot walls and inclines, 1-foot walls which are only actually retarded NOT because they are small, but because you can't traverse them. JUMPING is the best and most cost effective tool to get rid of these stupid situations while salvaging a natural sense of geography.