What Zero Could've Been

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I think there are some pretty common ones like girls with long hair that go through dramatic, compelling emotional journeys/love stories along with sterner guys that carry heavy unseen burdens with facial hair and strong physiques that they could start with.

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…….what?…..
This sounds so incredibly boring.
So as a woman my value stands in my long hair and wish for a strong man to love me in the cold nights.
Please stop reading fairytales for little girls.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

…….what?…..
This sounds so incredibly boring.
So as a woman my value stands in my long hair and wish for a strong man to love me in the cold nights.
Please stop reading fairytales for little girls.

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Okay, this thread's taking a turn and I really just got curious about something, so don't take it personally because it's really just curiosity at play. You're not even the only one saying this. And I KNOW this is gonna be a drama powder keg, so I'll just preface it here by saying this.

Essentially: why be so against that? Some people would actually like to have that, just as much as you'd like to have literally anything else. And there isn't anything inherently wrong with it either. What would be wrong is if Aveyond started saying that every female character and every male character needed to behave like that. Which isn't realistic and is just pushing dumb values everywhere. I'm all for more representation and people of varying outlooks and personal strengths, so I don't see the problem with "strong man protects weak girl" because if I reversed the roles, they'd be in the same dynamic. Yet people react like it's going to undo centuries of women empowerment in society... which, again, it only would promote that sort of thing if that were the only dynamic the story presented.

But when this idea is so much as even suggested, people go haywire. When there's really not much of a need for that? It's even a fantasy some enjoy, women included. Unless the story portrays their characters exclusively in such a dynamic, it doesn't emasculate the guy or remove agency from the woman by having one be strong and the other dramatic. (Before anyone asks "who's 'some'", I point to the amount of women who adore Cottagecore, which is heavily rooted in old 50's values which did force those standards on women and men)

Your value as a woman does not get boosted nor lowered by having a strong man to embrace you at night, nor would it if you did it to him. It has no bearing on your femininity, nor on his masculinity. As long as you don't make your character only based around that dynamic, it's fine, I think?

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I guess you haven't heard, but there's no accounting for taste. It's innumerable.

Do they? When it comes to a norm for female attractiveness, looked at historically, there isn't much of one.
Generally, it seems to come down to either "look like you're rich," "look built to bear children," or a combination thereof.
And that covers a lot of ground, from beyond Rubenesque to the flappers of the 1920's.*

*Thoroughly Modern Millie contains an amusing bit where Julie Andrew's character Millie is jealous of Mary Tylor Moore's character Dorothy because Dorothy's "beads" -- a long necklace -- "hang straight" on Dorothy's more modest chest.

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I mean, yeah they do have incredibly weird views of women. Especially when their other thread about wanting "strong women" in XIV was actually just wanting more attractive, long-haired females like Xenia the Warrior Princess lol. And that too muscled off women (like Roes) would detract from the current male cast.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I just wish the sort of attitude and dynamic she brings could've gone to a male cast member instead. FFXIV women are oftentimes too "strong" without a sufficient arc leading up to that level of empowerment or confidence while the men are either jokes or hung up on a set of emotions like Vrtra is, and it's not doing anyone any favors.

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Like, what is that even supposed to mean lmao. Women can't be strong or have dominant qualities unless they pass the aveyond vibe check? We see edgy, strong characters in XIV because they just can be lol - looking at you Zenos and everyone in the DRK quest line.

Like the dude obviously has a type of women he wants to see lmao. Attractiveness is whatever and it's completely subjective to not even have a point really. But saying they ALL need to have compelling backstories as an excuse to having strong/stoic/ect whatever personalities and Y'shtola cannot act snarky towards men because of her lack of a character arc (which honestly, most of the characters don't have much of an arc or even a compelling character arc) is just weird fam. Don't know why you'd defend that unless you vibe with being told you need to act submissive until aveyond tells you, "Oh Silverbane, you've suffered enough in your life so you can now act negatively towards men. Congrats!" lol

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Okay, this thread's taking a turn and I really just got curious about something, so don't take it personally because it's really just curiosity at play. You're not even the only one saying this. And I KNOW this is gonna be a drama powder keg, so I'll just preface it here by saying this.

Essentially: why be so against that? Some people would actually like to have that, just as much as you'd like to have literally anything else. And there isn't anything inherently wrong with it either. What would be wrong is if Aveyond started saying that every female character and every male character needed to behave like that. Which isn't realistic and is just pushing dumb values everywhere. I'm all for more representation and people of varying outlooks and personal strengths, so I don't see the problem with "strong man protects weak girl" because if I reversed the roles, they'd be in the same dynamic. Yet people react like it's going to undo centuries of women empowerment in society... which, again, it only would promote that sort of thing if that were the only dynamic the story presented.

But when this idea is so much as even suggested, people go haywire. When there's really not much of a need for that? It's even a fantasy some enjoy, women included. Unless the story portrays their characters exclusively in such a dynamic, it doesn't emasculate the guy or remove agency from the woman by having one be strong and the other dramatic. (Before anyone asks "who's 'some'", I point to the amount of women who adore Cottagecore, which is heavily rooted in old 50's values which did force those standards on women and men)

Your value as a woman does not get boosted nor lowered by having a strong man to embrace you at night, nor would it if you did it to him. It has no bearing on your femininity, nor on his masculinity. As long as you don't make your character only based around that dynamic, it's fine, I think?

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Aveyond wants that look for most of the characters though. They have repeatedly said that's how they'd like most of the cast to look and behave. Just go take a look at their OP about how'd they change most of the cast. They also tend to disagree with anything that remotely falls short of said look and personality. Course I won't be surprised if they or someone else goes nuh-uh that's not what they mean despite what descriptors they continue to use to paint the type of men and women they want to see. And the kind if behavior they want from them.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I think there are some pretty common ones like girls with long hair that go through dramatic, compelling emotional journeys/love stories along with sterner guys that carry heavy unseen burdens with facial hair and strong physiques that they could start with.

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I can't quite believe you're still going on with this.

Here's the honest to gods truth: your takes on this game are absolutely terrible. They're entirely self-centered, archaic, sexist, boring and predictible. They're George R. R. Martin rip-off male power fantasies obsessed with buxom women with flowing locks and five-feet-apart-because-they're-not-gay stoic manly man men with rippling muscles that became a tired trope several decades ago. Times have changed. Media has evolved, people have evolved, society's conceptions of men and women and how they should look and behave evolved, so I suggest either move on with the times, or cling to the plethora of material that already exists that caters to people like you and leave a game actually half-attempting to leave some of the hackneyed, beaten-to-death tropes rampant in JRPGs behind alone if you can't come to terms with it. You're not even offering constructive criticism at this point, you're just trying to justify why misogynistic archetypes and medieval fantasy tropes being stuck into a 2022 game would be good for anyone except you, and poorly at that. If you're so disturbed by women whose sole purpose for existence in a narrative isn't to cater to the male gaze or men who can't grill a steak with the force of their sheer manly ruggedness, FF has many titles that do have those characters, so I recommend starting your search there and allow SE to put a little much-needed progression into one of their games, at least.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Essentially: why be so against that? Some people would actually like to have that, just as much as you'd like to have literally anything else. And there isn't anything inherently wrong with it either. What would be wrong is if Aveyond started saying that every female character and every male character needed to behave like that. Which isn't realistic and is just pushing dumb values everywhere. I'm all for more representation and people of varying outlooks and personal strengths, so I don't see the problem with "strong man protects weak girl" because if I reversed the roles, they'd be in the same dynamic. Yet people react like it's going to undo centuries of women empowerment in society... which, again, it only would promote that sort of thing if that were the only dynamic the story presented.

But when this idea is so much as even suggested, people go haywire. When there's really not much of a need for that? It's even a fantasy some enjoy, women included. Unless the story portrays their characters exclusively in such a dynamic, it doesn't emasculate the guy or remove agency from the woman by having one be strong and the other dramatic. (Before anyone asks "who's 'some'", I point to the amount of women who adore Cottagecore, which is heavily rooted in old 50's values which did force those standards on women and men)

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I point you to the most obvious dynamic: Thancred & Ryne.

People DO like that dynamic when it's done well. Ryne was - quite literally - a useless reincarnation magical girl who didn't do anything in the beginning but just kind of sit there and watch. Thancred protects her as he did Minfilia, and at the same time, taught her to be her own person. She does eventually become her own person who makes her own choices. That dynamic is completely fine actually and even at the time -- the story makes sense as to why it goes that route. In the end, it doesn't look like she continues fighting or anything like that. She and Gaia help out in the Crystarium and eat some coffee biscuits together. While she fought, she settled down in the end and just does her best to look after her friends. That seems still strong for me - she chose to live that way and she's found some peace.

Same with the RDM quest line. Anya and X'hrun (I'm probably spelling his name wrong, but ya get what I mean lol) also have that dynamic. You and the old cat protect Anya the whole way through until she learns to fend for herself. She gets over her fears and becomes stronk. Things like that.

I think most of the contention here, at least in this thread, is aveyond's tone really, really borderlines incel/niceguy levels lol. There's nothing wrong with requesting more "strong guy/weak girl" dynamics, really. What is wrong is saying that many women in the story except for Yotsuyu apparently is written bad because they act a little mean towards guys. And yeah honestly just take a look at his other threads about this.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

snips

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I just wanted to say I love the gif in your signature. Two handsome men. Course they're not Vincent and I can't wait for them to introduce the poor guy in the remake. But you know we can't have them cause they're too pretty and one was fine with dressing drag.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I think there are some pretty common ones like girls with long hair that go through dramatic, compelling emotional journeys/love stories along with sterner guys that carry heavy unseen burdens with facial hair and strong physiques that they could start with.

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So you want unoriginal cliché garbage basically?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Oka

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Ironically my real life style is of the romantic sort, so you aren’t talking to someone that will take your words personally, but here is my opinion since you asked.

There is nothing against that but in case you haven’t noticed he complains about every character ever made, like dude at this point make your own game or shut up.

And my problem with it personally is that I am sick and tired of the little blond girl being saved by the burly man as much as I am tired of the super strong independent woman who doesn’t need a man.
It goes both ways. It’s beyond boring and we have enough of both narratives going around in movies and games.

He is constantly reducing women to having to be nice to male characters, emotional and in love like ok?…..Much personality?

He says Yshtola doesn’t look good enough to have the attitude she has with Magnai like please tell me you are a neckbeard without saying you are a neckbeard.
According to him if a woman doesn’t look like his standards she should shut up, bow down and accept any advances made to her?
Creepy much?

I want characters to feel REAL, Im sick of fairytales, read them enough as a child and Im glad ffxiv doesn’t go that route.

I think they made more than enough variation of soft women, strong women, annoying women, soft men, strong men etc etc. at this point the guy just complains for the sake of complaining.

I really dont think that the way you look at it, is the way he does, seriously give it a few months and you’ll see yet another post of him being salty Yshtola didnt go in the tent with the big aura man.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

So you want unoriginal cliché garbage basically?

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He wants that and The Brothers Grimm levels of dark and grittyness.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

I point you to the most obvious dynamic: Thancred & Ryne.

People DO like that dynamic when it's done well. Ryne was - quite literally - a useless reincarnation magical girl who didn't do anything in the beginning but just kind of sit there and watch. Thancred protects her as he did Minfilia, and at the same time, taught her to be her own person. She does eventually become her own person who makes her own choices. That dynamic is completely fine actually and even at the time -- the story makes sense as to why it goes that route. In the end, it doesn't look like she continues fighting or anything like that. She and Gaia help out in the Crystarium and eat some coffee biscuits together. While she fought, she settled down in the end and just does her best to look after her friends. That seems still strong for me - she chose to live that way and she's found some peace.

Same with the RDM quest line. Anya and X'hrun (I'm probably spelling his name wrong, but ya get what I mean lol) also have that dynamic. You and the old cat protect Anya the whole way through until she learns to fend for herself. She gets over her fears and becomes stronk. Things like that.

I think most of the contention here, at least in this thread, is aveyond's tone really, really borderlines incel/niceguy levels lol. There's nothing wrong with requesting more "strong guy/weak girl" dynamics, really. What is wrong is saying that many women in the story except for Yotsuyu apparently is written bad because they act a little mean towards guys. And yeah honestly just take a look at his other threads about this.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Aveyond wants that look for most of the characters though. They have repeatedly said that's how they'd like most of the cast to look and behave. Just go take a look at their OP about how'd they change most of the cast. They also tend to disagree with anything that remotely falls short of said look and personality. Course I won't be surprised if they or someone else goes nuh-uh that's not what they mean despite what descriptors they continue to use to paint the type of men and women they want to see. And the kind if behavior they want from them.

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Alright :o I understand what's going on better now. Thank you. And yeah, like... trying to be so forceful about this topic and pushing it on every character is daft. When I was asking, I did think of Thancred and Ryne. Shadowbringers was drawing heavily from FF8, and that's written in the same tone as the Medieval Romance literature. Same for Ryne and Gaia; not that they're "in love" with eachother necessarily, but that their dynamic is based heavily on Medieval Romance, where you have a "knight" who wants to protect his "loved one" and would give his life for her, even if it's unattainable and all that jazz (basically, imagine Lancelot, it's literally that). I did not think of RDM's characters, but good shout.

And as problematic as some stories from that genre are, I personally think it's a pretty sweet/cute relationship, it just can't be the only thing you present to people. Not just because it looks like you're pushing an agenda, it also becomes stale wicked fast.

My reaction was really mostly because people brought up how it led to mysoginy, but I see now that the issue isn't the dynamic itself, but rather Aveyond's insistence on it which disregards everything that doesn't fit into that mold.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

There is nothing against that but in case you haven’t noticed he complains about every character ever made, like dude at this point make your own game or shut up.

And my problem with it personally is that I am sick and tired of the little blond girl being saved by the burly man as much as I am tired of the super strong independent woman who doesn’t need a man.
It goes both ways. It’s beyond boring and we have enough of both narratives going around in movies and games.

He is constantly reducing women to having to be nice to male characters, emotional and in love like ok?…..Much personality?

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I'm really used to people having really extreme opinions on some characters. So I never really thought much about it. I am aware that he does complain a lot about how the game is done, and I don't agree with frankly most of it. There are some stuff that I pick up here and there, but mostly out of discussion, not really because I instantly agree and subscribe to it. For example, I do have issues with, say, G'raha or Y'shtola, but I don't want them gone nor do I want their fundamental character so altered just to fit my own view. If anything, I want to see more of them that isn't the same facet, which Y'shtola has shown really well and G'raha has with his Exarch side.

Same with Zero. I loved how Zero was introduced and I can't wait to see who she is and what she will do. Especially after people pointed out it could lead to "Zero"mus.

And yeah, as I said. It's reducing every dynamic to that sort of thing that's a problem, because it quickly makes people question where it is you stand.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Okay, this thread's taking a turn and I really just got curious about something, so don't take it personally because it's really just curiosity at play. You're not even the only one saying this. And I KNOW this is gonna be a drama powder keg, so I'll just preface it here by saying this.

Essentially: why be so against that?

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Yet people react like it's going to undo centuries of women empowerment in society... which, again, it only would promote that sort of thing if that were the only dynamic the story presented.?

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You answered your own question.

Women - and some men, to be fair - have fought for many, many years and continue to fight for a diverse representation of men and women that goes beyond defining women by their femininity and their appeal to men, and men by their strength and how they adhere to traditional depictions of masculinity. We've made some progress, but look at Western media in general and you can see it's still fairly rampant, the messages are merely more subtle these days. Gaming in particular has often been a hotbed of misogynistic viewpoints and male gaze parades, and it's taken a long time just to get to where we are now, which isn't terribly far. Doubling back on that to return to haggard tropes that undermine quite literally all of that under the pretext of "variety" is pointless, unnecessary and self-defeating.

As for your point on Cottagecore, women enjoy it because they feel they can now freely enjoy the idea of a rural, country life on their terms, without all of the stereotyping and sexist misery that used to go along with it. Most fantasies and aesthetics revolving around it actually exclude men entirely.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I just wanted to say I love the gif in your signature. Two handsome men. Course they're not Vincent and I can't wait for them to introduce the poor guy in the remake. But you know we can't have them cause they're too pretty and one was fine with dressing drag.

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Thank you! I do love snippy Cloud.

It does make you wonder where they'd fall on the OP's acceptability meter. I mean Cloud does brood, and he has two (!) pretty, long-haired women interested in him, as well as a big sword. But he wore a dress, and is objectively pretty.

And Reno must be out, surely. Look at that long hair and slender, muscle-less build. Why, he's practically a woman!

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

You answered your own question.

Women - and some men, to be fair - have fought for many, many years and continue to fight for a diverse representation of men and women that goes beyond defining women by their femininity and their appeal to men, and men by their strength and how they adhere to traditional depictions of masculinity. We've made some progress, but look at Western media in general and you can see it's still fairly rampant, the messages are merely more subtle these days. Gaming in particular has often been a hotbed of misogynistic viewpoints and male gaze parades, and it's taken a long time just to get to where we are now, which isn't terribly far. Doubling back on that to return to haggard tropes that undermine quite literally all of that under the pretext of "variety" is pointless, unnecessary and self-defeating.

As for your point on Cottagecore, women enjoy it because they feel they can now freely enjoy the idea of a rural, country life on their terms, without all of the stereotyping and sexist misery that used to go along with it. Most fantasies and aesthetics revolving around it actually exclude men entirely.

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Well, it wasn't really an answer to my question, because what I was asking was "it doesn't do this, so why are people getting so upset about it?"
And that's true for Cottagecore, it's even probably why it's popular in sapphic circles.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Well, it wasn't really an answer to my question, because what I was asking was "it doesn't do this, so why are people getting so upset about it?"
And that's true for Cottagecore, it's even probably why it's popular in sapphic circles.

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It does have an impact, though. Every bit of representation matters, especially when it's still relatively early on in the battle. It might not tear down the entire movement with a single character, but it does register with people, so it just doesn't really benefit anyone bar the people who actively want to hold up this sort of dynamic - who harbor the sort of ideas on men and women that are harmful to the rest of us -to suddenly re-insert it when we've made a scant bit of way forward, and potentially set back the progress that has been made.

It may sound dramatic, but when you're a woman and actually affected by these ideals and have grown surrounded by these messages in modern media, it really is important. The existence of this thread in its entirety attests to that.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I just wanted to say I love the gif in your signature. Two handsome men. Course they're not Vincent and I can't wait for them to introduce the poor guy in the remake. But you know we can't have them cause they're too pretty and one was fine with dressing drag.

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Only in the remake, and even then said newly crowned Honeybee Drag Queen ignores the fact that his Drag manager is busy selling soon to be Mafia sex toys to Don Corneo in the shadows. Old Honeybee was narratively sound because it was made to be reviled, this new Honeybee is glorified and people seem all too keen to forget that the establishment is literally selling whores in the shadows. So much for fighting tyrannical sexist men.

Problematic this, problematic that…Stereotypes here, cultural norms there…
I don’t care, I’m here to enjoy the goddamn fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Problematic this, problematic that…Stereotypes here, cultural norms there…
I don’t care, I’m here to enjoy the goddamn fantasy.

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Welp, was nice knowing you Vortex you just said the thing. I'll see you on the other side of the Maelstrom, as my similar refusal to believe in the honesty and integrity of "The Cause" leaves me open to vilification. Guess I just didn't fight enough for the rights of the right groups in a fantasy video game, such a tragedious existence I live.

YIKES, amirite?

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Welp, was nice knowing you Vortex you just said the thing. I'll see you on the other side of the Maelstrom, as my similar refusal to believe in the honesty and integrity of "The Cause" leaves me open to vilification. Guess I just didn't fight enough for the rights of the right groups in a fantasy video game, such a tragedious existence I live.

YIKES, amirite?

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https://img.wattpad.com/e1ff25890a3a...3134322e676966

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Welp, was nice knowing you Vortex you just said the thing. I'll see you on the other side of the Maelstrom, as my similar refusal to believe in the honesty and integrity of "The Cause" leaves me open to vilification. Guess I just didn't fight enough for the rights of the right groups in a fantasy video game, such a tragedious existence I live.

YIKES, amirite?

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I honestly can never tell when you are serious or joking/sarcastic or playing devil's advocate.

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

I honestly can never tell when you are serious or joking/sarcastic or playing devil's advocate.

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That's the best part about Senti. She truly is an agent of chaos.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

That's the best part about Senti. She truly is an agent of chaos.

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https://c.tenor.com/_EoZmNL3yGwAAAAC...asy-origin.gif

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

https://c.tenor.com/_EoZmNL3yGwAAAAC...asy-origin.gif

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For those who understand the implications, that's a dangerous insinuated desire to place forth upon thine yonder public fora.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

For those who understand the implications, that's a dangerous insinuated desire to place forth upon thine yonder public fora.

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At this point Im just convinced this is what you do XD
So its gonna be hard to take you seriously

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

At this point Im just convinced this is what you do XD
So its gonna be hard to take you seriously

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I mean... it's already pretty dang hard to take most people on the forums seriously. You gonna take Silverbane seriously? You gonna take Atelier Burger seriously? You gonna take Oatmeal seriously? The forums as they are right now are just one giant clown show and if you're taking it seriously, you're doing it wrong LOL

I'd love for the forums to be a serious place of discussion, but you just can't take the forums as they currently are seriously or you'll just drive yourself insane.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Now then, shall we move on or will this circular debate yet Forge Ahead unto the future?

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We all know how much the Fora Knights love to fOrGE aHeAD so I think I know the answer...

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

At this point Im just convinced this is what you do XD
So its gonna be hard to take you seriously

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I mean, when you post things like that who can blame me? You HAVE played the game, right? Fully comprehend the implications of what you posted? In all honesty, I've no compunctions on whether or not I'm taken seriously this forum is a joke. I just so happen to be the punchline. Regardless, issuing such IS under your sovereign human right of free speech. Just kindly don't get so suddenly defensive when its answered in kind. Makes it hard to take YOU seriously.

Now then, shall we move on or will this circular debate yet Forge Ahead unto the future? A codified Bad End, mayhaps? I'll be satisfied either way, come what may. ;3

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I mean... it's already pretty dang hard to take most people on the forums seriously. You gonna take Silverbane seriously? You gonna take Atelier Burger seriously? You gonna take Oatmeal seriously? The forums as they are right now are just one giant clown show and if you're taking it seriously, you're doing it wrong LOL

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I take Oatmeal VERY seriously. Its delicious and I wish I learned my mom recipe so I could make it instead of going to Fast Food places or Overpaying at Diners.
But probly the only threads I actually do take seriously here is the FemHroth thread; because I legit want to be an idea Beastgirl. And any thread that spreads misinformation or are just straight up nonconstructive hate.
But I dont visit every thread, so I might mis something.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

I mean, when you post things like that who can blame me? You HAVE played the game, right?

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Actually no, I havent played the game.
And there is no implications, it was a reaction to AwesomeJr44 saying "Chaos"
If you think there is a deeper meaning....LoL

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

And any thread that spreads misinformation or are just straight up nonconstructive hate.

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This is enough, for me, to not take you seriously. I stop reading after these words in particular are spoken, for they are a bane upon the sanity and logical discussion and frankly I've already compiled an undoubtedly accurate mental database of which threads and content topics YOU would write off as "just misinformation and mindless hate". Every day I drift further and further into the mindset of Anakin Skywalker, because from my point of view the Fora Knights are the ones who spread most of the mindless hate and disinformation you see on these forums. Don't believe me if that's what you're intent on doing, but frankly the Zodiark Trancer cult is the one interested in real, nuanced discussion and you cannot change my mind on this.

Any evidence to the contrary is merely people fed up with consistent bad faith and misrepresentation at every opportunity and in the end they stop trying. Then, their opponents take these low-effort posts and try to spin it as though that's all they ever said on their little Discords and SomethingAwfuls and Reddits and GameFaqs. It's called cherrypicking Sweaty, you would benefit from research upon the topic in question.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Actually no, I havent played the game.
And there is no implications, it was a reaction to AwesomeJr44 saying "Chaos"
If you think there is a deeper meaning....LoL

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https://i.imgur.com/3l2erfc.jpg

And my job here is done....

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

This is enough, for me, to not take you seriously. I stop reading after these words in particular are spoken, for they are a bane upon the sanity and logical discussion and frankly I've already compiled an undoubtedly accurate mental database of which threads and content topic YOU would write off as "just misinformation and mindless hate". Every day I drift further and further into the mindset of Anakin Skywalker, because from my point of view the Fora Knights are the ones who spread most of the mindless hate and disinformation you see on these forums. Don't believe me if that's what you're intent on doing, but frankly the Zodiark Trancer cult is the one interested in real, nuanced discussion and you cannot change my mind on this.

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I dont think you ever did take me seriously to begin with. Based on your many weird posts and calling people Fora Knights XD
Also, you read that I mentioned that I dont visit Every Thread right? So I could always miss something

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

And my job here is done....

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Trolling? Nah, you still have alot of work to do XD
Because you come off as more unhinged then funny.

When everything is serious business, nothing will be.

People have forgotten the true meaning of being a troll. Assume nothing of my mental state, as you roil into a frothing wroth over the many offensive things I've uttered. Being a misanthrope frees one from the ineluctable fetters of bigotry. I'm having fun here, what of you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

People have forgotten the true meaning of being a troll. Assume nothing of my mental state, as you roil into a frothing wroth over the many offensive things I've uttered. Being a misanthrope frees one from the ineluctable fetters of bigotry. I'm having fun here, what of you?

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https://c.tenor.com/qO-AiHNj-jUAAAAC/mike-tyson-lol.gif
Ok I take it back, you are funny. Still a little unhinged sometimes, but pretty funny.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Problematic this, problematic that…Stereotypes here, cultural norms there…
I don’t care, I’m here to enjoy the goddamn fantasy.

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Probably best to stay away from topics that devolve like this because it becomes a pissing contest of people who are in a constant state of superposition of being a victim and being entitled at the same time until something happens. Then they choose which position benefits them the most in that event. It's a chaotic state of mind and cannot be reasoned with.

My advice is if you want to enjoy the fantasy then just play the game. A lot of the stuff on the forums is so cringe like it came from Meteion and Hermes themselves.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

This is enough, for me, to not take you seriously. I stop reading after these words in particular are spoken, for they are a bane upon the sanity and logical discussion and frankly I've already compiled an undoubtedly accurate mental database of which threads and content topic YOU would write off as "just misinformation and mindless hate".

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I mean to be 100% fair, nonconstructive hate is a real thing. Aveyond experiences it in pretty much any thread he makes, regardless of topic or how good/bad his takes are in said thread. Aveyond could say that the sky is blue and that he likes that shade of blue, and the same group of posters would be there to post about him not liking burger scenes. I do find it really funny though how certain posters (not naming names so nobody get defensive) love to cry about Lyth hate threads, but then endorse an Aveyond hate thread.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Every day I drift further and further into the mindset of Anakin Skywalker, because from my point of view the Fora Knights are the ones who spread most of the mindless hate and disinformation you see on these forums.

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The difference between you and Anakin is that you are right while he was not.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Don't believe me if that's what you're intent on doing, but frankly the Zodiark Trancer cult is the one interested in real, nuanced discussion and you cannot change my mind on this.

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I've said this many times and I'll say it again, I'm all for a real nuanced discussion, and while I can't speak for others, I'd wager a lot of people on the 'Zodiark Trancer' side feel the same way. But it doesn't seem like the other side of the debate wants free and open discussion, they want an echo chamber of positivity like the one you'll find in r/ffxiv.

And something I'd like to point out is that for all of the accusations of brigading that are thrown towards the Zodiark Trancers, nobody's willing to question if the other side is engaging in that behavior. If you asked me to pick ONE thread in the past week that had the most obvious signs of brigading, it would be this one. It's kind of sus that if I make a high-effort thoughtful comment that gets 10 likes, the Zodiark Trancers are brigading, all of those likes are from my friends and we're just trying to manipulate the discussion, but when literally any low effort post that is anti-Aveyond is getting at least 15, it's just the forum agreeing on something.

It's rules for thee and not for me. That's what it's always been. The other side engages in all of this nonsense and no one cares, but if the dreaded Zodiark Trancers dare do anything resembling the same (whether they're actually doing that or not), we're the bad guys now. A thread that's taking a big crap over Aveyond? Just the forum disagreeing with him. A thread that's calling Lyth out for crap she's actually doing? A Lyth hate thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

People have forgotten the true meaning of being a troll. Assume nothing of my mental state, as you roil into a frothing wroth over the many offensive things I've uttered. Being a misanthrope frees one from the ineluctable fetters of bigotry. I'm having fun here, what of you?

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https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Problematic this, problematic that…Stereotypes here, cultural norms there…
I don’t care, I’m here to enjoy the goddamn fantasy.

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^this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Probably best to stay away from topics that devolve like this because it becomes a pissing contest of people who are in a constant state of superposition of being a victim and being entitled at the same time until something happens. Then they choose which position benefits them the most in that event. It's a chaotic state of mind and cannot be reasoned with.

My advice is if you want to enjoy the fantasy then just play the game. A lot of the stuff on the forums is so cringe like it came from Meteion and Hermes themselves.

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And a little Twitter magic, courtesy of a certain account on there catching wind of this thread, helps add spice to it as well. ;)

Anyway, agreed.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I mean to be 100% fair, nonconstructive hate is a real thing. Aveyond experiences it in pretty much any thread he makes, regardless of topic or how good/bad his takes are in said thread. Aveyond could say that the sky is blue and that he likes that shade of blue, and the same group of posters would be there to post about him not liking burger scenes.

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Thats kinda silly. I know we give the guy a hard time, but come on now, I dont think we'd go at him for saying the Sky is Blue or liking a shade of Blue...or just bring up Burgers in a discussion about Blue (I mean who knows, I could be wrong on that last part XD)

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

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Im confused by this picture because I really dont get the whole Fora Knight thing.
Its weirdly funny because I just dont get it XD

I guess Ill ask while Im at it because you are directly using my name....are you lobbing me in with the A Lyth hate thread thing?
Because I wasnt even apart of that discussion...

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

The difference between you and Anakin is that you are right while he was not.

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Well, to the best of my knowledge I've never murdered mass amounts of children so I've gotta be doing something right.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

And a little Twitter magic, courtesy of a certain account on there catching wind of this thread, helps add spice to it as well. ;)

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Hey now, maybe I'll finally be added to the Hall of Shame!

This

Quote:

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People have forgotten the true meaning of being a troll. Assume nothing of my mental state, as you roil into a frothing wroth over the many offensive things I've uttered. Being a misanthrope frees one from the ineluctable fetters of bigotry. I'm having fun here, what of you?

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one surely warrants it, right? I mean, really. I'm kinda upset that I'm not already there.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Im confused by this picture because I really dont get the whole Fora Knight thing.
Its weirdly funny because I just dont get it XD

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And therein lies the joke. Me. I'm the joke. I'm so broke the joke assumed my life and replaced me.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

And therein lies the joke. Me. I'm the joke. I'm so broke the joke assumed my life and replaced me.

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So whats the Joke again?
A clear explanation instead of being cryptic would be nice. Just so I can understand it.
Kind of hard to make a coherent reply if I dont understand the reference, or Joke or whatever

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Thats kinda silly. I know we give the guy a hard time, but come on now, I dont think we'd go at him for saying the Sky is Blue or liking a shade of Blue...or just bring up Burgers in a discussion about Blue (I mean who knows, I could be wrong on that last part XD)

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You can't see yourself doing that because you're not a blind hater. I may disagree with you on certain topics but I don't see you as entirely irrational like the Fora Knights are, so I 100% believe you when you say that you wouldn't. However, there are definitely people who were in this thread earlier (I'm not naming names as I don't want anyone to get hyper defensive and whine about it) who would gladly go into a basic take thread like "the sky is blue" and start ripping on Aveyond for the burger thing or whatever else they can find to do so with. I would honestly not be surprised if there's a discord of Aveyond haters out there who have a discord bot that alerts them whenever Aveyond posts, so that they can go attack him. And if that sounds insane, it's because they are.

What's a 'fora knight'?