Old content has become so easy that it is no longer fun

So why can't we just ilvl sync everything again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Makiyaa

What people want is that the old content stay hard thought time. Even if the skills or system changed, even if there are news jobs. We just want to say "we did it because we are good and not because this boss became easier".

---

So why aren't you preforming a party and setting the party to Minimum ilvl?

Keep in mind that it's not just gear that makes things easier. It's the experience gained from having completed content in the past (not even necessarily the specific duty but other duties as well). You don't unlearn what you've learned unless you haven't used the knowledge for several year. Things will never end up feeling as difficult as they did the first time.

You can have it set that everyone that joins a dungeon or whatever is only at the minimum Ilvl rather just being synced to the maximum ilvl allowed. You'll notice a big difference then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jojoya

So why aren't you preforming a party and setting the party to Minimum ilvl?

Keep in mind that it's not just gear that makes things easier. It's the experience gained from having completed content in the past (not even necessarily the specific duty but other duties as well). You don't unlearn what you've learned unless you haven't used the knowledge for several year. Things will never end up feeling as difficult as they did the first time.

---

So true, there is something special about the first time- it's a similar reason why people say stuff like "I'm jealous you get to play it for the first time", I've seen that many times said about games like Witcher 3.

I believe, in some cases, is also the curse that clouds some dislike of an MMO as they use similar systems for so long that you become very separated from that first time feeling and nearly nothing can really reinvigorate it without it being... Well.. new. Taking breaks can help, for those who are like that (I don't have a lot of time but for example when GoW or Elden Ring came around I'll focus on that and then come back with so many things I can do and most of the grind removed because it isn't as new, which is good for me cause grind is not why I play lol).

Quote:

---

So why aren't you preforming a party and setting the party to Minimum ilvl?

---

I do but that's the point : even in MINE, mechanics are easier. Again, 2 examples : the feeling that we can survive on some mechanics and no DPS check (and then, we skip some mechs, etc.). That why some of us worry about rebalance old content for those who play in Min Ilvl.

Not reading this whole thread, but they need to rethink how scaling works. It's not even a U curve in difficulty anymore, it's a flatline into a brick wall.

Also let us blacklist the CT raids please thank you have a blessed day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LisSquid

Also let us blacklist the CT raids please thank you have a blessed day.

---

Or just move them into the MSQ roulette seeing as they're required for plot progression.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TsuchinokoPanda

Or just move them into the MSQ roulette seeing as they're required for plot progression.

---

Wouldn’t they just create the same issue that guildhest roulette has if they do that? Specifically speaking about the last 2 hests.

In addition to buffing the numbers, doing some adjustments to jobs would make lower level content more interesting.

There's no valid reason healers can't get their first HoT before level 35. Or why their singlet target gameplay from level 5 to 90 is [Aero] + [Glare] spam.
There's no valid reason half the jobs only get their first AOE at level 44+.
There's no valid reason some melee jobs dont get the 3rd hit of their combo after level 20 when MNK gets Snap Punch at level 6.

And that's not even going into how the repeated pruning and homogenization of a lot of abilities made gameplay at all level less interesting for those who like to optimize more.

I think if I had started playing 14 today instead of 2013 I would have stopped playing somewhere in ARR.
It would have just felt so out dated and the dungeons so boring that I just wouldn't have gotten invested..
They're re making dungeons but instead of making them better and more exciting they make them more braindead, but the lighting in totorak is pretty!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolwosh

I think if I had started playing 14 today instead of 2013 I would have stopped playing somewhere in ARR.
It would have just felt so out dated and the dungeons so boring that I just wouldn't have gotten invested..
They're re making dungeons but instead of making them better and more exciting they make them more braindead, but the lighting in totorak is pretty!

---

I miss old Totorak. It kind of sucked getting it but the entire dungeon had character. You could get lost in there and that was really cool to me that there was enough of it to explore that you'd actually get lost. The graphics inside did look a little dated but the actual material felt fine. Having to collect the cells made it slightly more interactive too. Now it's just a narrow hallway :/

Wonder if they might revamp squadrons to apply something unique to dungeons, a bit of a tangent to the main post but related to the whole old totorak type thing.

Something like you can PF any 'unreal' dungeon, DF the current unreal dungeon (?, I feel adding too many might increase rate of failure cause people will not remember too many mechanics, if any, lol. so not overwhelming the df seems a good concern), and squadron support would be added to all after they're taken off the DF (like how an unreal primal fight gets switched out, at the point of being 'old' they gain other methods of maintaining accessibility).

Unreal dungeons having puzzles and will reuse as much art assets as humanly possible to reduce costs of their creation (like a testing / skill building and creative outlet platform for their dev's to make unique and interesting content). Exploration, puzzles, trash mobs that feel like mini-bosses, w.e. Few rules, just follow the rule of fun. Squadrons could be replaced by trusts, but I feel like non-story content might be the place they exist well for the future. Eespecially at least currently you can make them very strong via investment, if you gave them (squadrons) better AI they might very well be able to do the content- add some new commands like, 'target' 'now! (interacts with target)' and even being able to FF7 Remake take over their body temporarily and you can do fairly intricate puzzles on your own too. Maybe crudely put as 'mini-eureka(s)'.

Using more of the return to dungeons like the Nier raid might also offer opportunities to enjoy the content in a less 'beeline to the exit' way.

I don't think that "unreal" old dungeons make sense. Dungeons were never hard, and just buff of all trashs will not make them fun, just longer because packs will be smaller. But I think that the criterion dungeon will play the role of difficult dungeon and I guess that they will be design for that : probably more mechanics, more strategy, more coordination between teammates, etc.

Dungeons, normal trials/raids are for fun and give some rythmes to the story progression. So keep them easy is not a problem.
Extremes/Savages/Ultimates are for challenge. So, the fact that they are no challenging anymore is a problem.
In my opinion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Now it's just a narrow hallway :/

---

Like most dungeons in the game, lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Wouldn’t they just create the same issue that guildhest roulette has if they do that? Specifically speaking about the last 2 hests.

---

MSQ roulette has very good rewards (at least up to lvl 80) since they take a bit more time to complete. This makes a lot of people play these for quite some time.

Variety is currently the reason to avoid this since its now just 2 dungeons. Adding 3 raids into that would be a major boost. And as they are required for progression there will always be people in the queues here. Another advantage is that raids generaly require more dps, which can also balance out the distribution of players there.

Guildhest roulette has the issue that no one cares about the guildhests anyway. They do not give any benefits except for a very small XP boost (and if players want this reward, they dont care which hest they get). And as they arent required for progression, there is no need to manualy queue for these (its just a timewaste since a normal dungeon already gives better rewards). Even if the rewards would improve, people will only do this once, after which you are back to the old issue. Guildhests are massively outdated content and not rewarding at all.

I used to still like some old dungeon.
Now I feel like I'm not even playing anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KDSilver

I used to still like some old dungeon.
Now I feel like I'm not even playing anymore.

---

is it because they are easier (mainly because of the bad sync, i.e. potencies change) even in Min ilvl ?
Or because the mechanics intp the dungeon are removed ?

In the first case, if it's too easy, even in min ilvl, then the problem is the same as for old extreme/savages/ult.
In the second case, it's not a question of difficulty then (and a bit out of the topic I think)

(ps : I never ran with min ilvl in a dungeon)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Makiyaa

is it because they are easier (mainly because of the bad sync, i.e. potencies change) even in Min ilvl ?
Or because the mechanics intp the dungeon are removed ?

In the first case, if it's too easy, even in min ilvl, then the problem is the same as for old extreme/savages/ult.
In the second case, it's not a question of difficulty then (and a bit out of the topic I think)

(ps : I never ran with min ilvl in a dungeon)

---

A bit of both I would say.

Potency creep and job reworks in general are certainly issues that have made older content significantly easier than when it was current, even at minimum itemlevel.

But you also had nerfs to bosses like Thundergod in Orbonne Monastery to the point that nothing about him is threatening anymore.

The reworks of old dungeons on the other hand have turned them into just more hallway simulators for the sake of making the Trust AI work. NPC companions in general, atleast as they currently exist, severely limit what kind of mechanics they can implement not only into reworked old content but the newest content as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

MSQ roulette has very good rewards (at least up to lvl 80) since they take a bit more time to complete. This makes a lot of people play these for quite some time.

Variety is currently the reason to avoid this since its now just 2 dungeons. Adding 3 raids into that would be a major boost. And as they are required for progression there will always be people in the queues here. Another advantage is that raids generaly require more dps, which can also balance out the distribution of players there.

Guildhest roulette has the issue that no one cares about the guildhests anyway. They do not give any benefits except for a very small XP boost (and if players want this reward, they dont care which hest they get). And as they arent required for progression, there is no need to manualy queue for these (its just a timewaste since a normal dungeon already gives better rewards). Even if the rewards would improve, people will only do this once, after which you are back to the old issue. Guildhests are massively outdated content and not rewarding at all.

---

I was mainly referring to the fact how it was close to impossible to get 8-man hest popping via hest roulette unless you ‘force’ it by queueing in as a premade of double tank, double healer, or triple DPS because the system would prioritize filling up any of the 4-man hests instead.

So let’s say they add CT raid into MSR, wouldn’t that mean it is less likely to get CT raid popping unless somebody queues in as a premade of double healer or triple DPS? CMIIW though.

I agree that hest isn’t rewarding outside weekly challenge log quota and maybe for achievement hunter. They apparently can’t be unsync’ed too. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Makiyaa

is it because they are easier (mainly because of the bad sync, i.e. potencies change) even in Min ilvl ?
Or because the mechanics intp the dungeon are removed ?

In the first case, if it's too easy, even in min ilvl, then the problem is the same as for old extreme/savages/ult.
In the second case, it's not a question of difficulty then (and a bit out of the topic I think)

(ps : I never ran with min ilvl in a dungeon)

---

- Bad sync
- Easier than easy
- Changes to job that make them easier

For example, running low lvl dungeon as healer is the absolute worst experience.
Your party takes absolutely no damage at all it's ridiculous...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KDSilver

- Bad sync
- Easier than easy
- Changes to job that make them easier

For example, running low lvl dungeon as healer is the absolute worst experience.
Your party takes absolutely no damage at all it's ridiculous...

---

Generally speaking damage starts to ramp up from Haukke Manor, mind you nothing too crazy but enough to actual heal more than lower levels.

And that was on Min ilvl ? or just sycned ?