I appreciate Square Enix supporting LGBT rights in FFXIV.

If you look hard enough you can see just about anything anywhere.

I wonder if people just have the expectation that these two characters have a romantic connection because game devs like to use lesbian couples to fulfill LGBT representation. Lesbians are more palatable to people, or something. GW2 did that a LOT

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

I wonder if people just have the expectation that these two characters have a romantic connection because game devs like to use lesbian couples to fulfill LGBT representation. Lesbians are more palatable to people, or something. GW2 did that a LOT

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This is why I was so appreciative of

Hythlodeus and Emet-Selch in Elpis.

Maybe that's the beauty of the whole thing. People who want something to be there, it'll be there for them and for people who don't see anything (like me), still works out.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

for the love of god please stop trying to push for two underaged girls to be gay, do you have nothing better to do than force your headcanon shipping onto others and using every possibly excuse why it's not "obvious"?! SE has no problems with straight up gay characters and yet there is not a single indication that ryne and gaia are in love, a relationship or anything of the sort, it's f*cking creepy.

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Ehm. I am not into this "pride" thing.. and i am not saying that this scene represented gays or lesbians or whatever.

But why is it "creepy" that two underaged girls can fall in love.. but on the other hand if a boy falls in love with a girl its cute and okay, huh?
I fell in love with girls and boys at the age of 6+ and was afraid to telling someone to fall in love with the same gender, because of people like you.

Its normal, you now - since it happens to many of us.. and its nothing wrong or "creepy" about that.
Just as easy as that.

This is why same sex friendships and expressions there of are nonexistent these days. Given that when shown the mob claims it to be lgbtq+(bbqblt)++. It saddens me a great deal and corrupts the concept of love without lust or motive.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

This is why same sex friendships and expressions there of are nonexistent these days. Given that when shown the mob claims it to be lgbtq+(bbqblt)++.

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Sorry, but thats really rubbish to say the least.
You know, not all people are the same - so generalizing is never the best (and not really smart) way to go.
People of the so called LGBT community arent a homogeneous mass... its like saying every straight person is the same. Every straight or whatever person is an individual and his thoughts arent connected to his/her sexuality.

As i said one post above you i wouldnt interprete a lesbian relationship between those and just a better friendship.
So you dont really have to put yourself into a poor victim role and generalize everything because you want it to be so.

But well, simple prejudices are a very easy concept to simple down the extreme complexity of the reality we are living in, doh*?
Would every person of the so called "LGBT community" would analyze this scene in the same way that it could only be a lesbian couple? i would clearly say: no. Art can be interpreted in many ways.
So you maybe shouldnt generalize, just because one voice seems to be louder than the others.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Sorry, but thats really rubbish to say the least.
You know, not all people are the same - so generalizing is never the best (and not really smart) way to go.
People of the so called LGBT community arent a homogeneous mass... its like saying every straight person is the same. Every straight or whatever person is an individual and his thoughts arent connected to his/her sexuality.

As i said one post above you i wouldnt interprete a lesbian relationship between those and just a better friendship.
So you dont really have to put yourself into a poor victim role and generalize everything because you want it to be so.

But well, simple prejudices are a very easy concept to simple down the extreme complexity of the reality we are living in, doh*?
Would every person of the so called "LGBT community" would analyze this scene in the same way that it could only be a lesbian couple? i would clearly say: no. Art can be interpreted in many ways.
So you maybe shouldnt generalize, just because one voice seems to be louder than the others.

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LGBT has long since become its own ideology that exist to perpetuate itself. It no longer serves the individual, but rather the individual must serve it or be cast out and condemned. It corrupts everything it touches ideologically.

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Originally Posted by Ativan

While I still wish to see more prominent queer characters in the main story, hopefully a Scion, I have just finished the Eden raid and I felt heard and appreciated as an LGBT individual.

https://i.imgur.com/CElTcUk_d.webp?m...idelity=medium

The Eden raid, as a parallel to FF8's story, is about Ryne and Gaia's love story. Much like Rinoa, Gaia had to choose between her past love and her new love. The rainbow Pride crystal makes it pretty obvious that Square Enix is supporting LGBT rights with this story. There is so much parallel between Squall/Rinoa and Ryne/Gaia that this is all but confirmed.

I just wanted to say thank you to the developers for creating a queer story. I wished it was a bit more explicit (maybe Gaia can confess her love for Ryne?). As of now this story verges on queerbaiting but it is a good first step.

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I didn't notice that. Maybe it's that and maybe it isn't. But I didn't see a romance between those two so much as a friendship. I'm hesitant to call any same-sex friendship baiting.

Not that SE would know - but the rainbow flag has actually been the Flag of the Inca nation since the 1700s when it was used by people attempting to throw off Spanish occupation in Peru. The flag still flies today over Inca cities in the highlands and is and has been used in graffiti all over Peru as a sign of resistance for centuries.

I saw this rainbow here though as just symbolizing all the elements coming back. Before the rainbow was co-opted by the LGBTQ movement, it also symbolizing things like racial diversity / multiculturalism, hope (as used in the move Wizard of Oz - which is actually weird given that the author of Oz used to argue in favor of genocide of indigenous people and as a newspaper editorialist was one of the figures behind the push for the Wounded Knee massacre in the months leading up to it), and many other notions.

Rainbows have many meanings.

I'm pretty sure I've seen more direct LGBTQ references somewhere in FFXIV. But I personally didn't put this one together myself.

They've been very hesitant to put any romances in the game actually. Of people in direct and stated relationships I can think of the twin's parents - and... some tragedies here and there. Mostly they avoid the subject regardless of sexuality. They have an insane number of very close friendships, but romances are not commonly gone into in FFXIV.

My biggest complaint with this whole plotline is I think Gaia was my favorite NPC of Shadowbringers and yet she ONLY shows up in the Eden raid. And since she's on the first they're not likely to use her again. I really want to see more of her, and frankly more of her and more of her and Ryne together as well - be it friendship or romance. I'd like to see where it goes and I'd really love to see some of these characters like those two and the twins finally grow up (like what is with the twins that have been with us for 8 years without ever getting past being teenagers).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Sorry, but thats really rubbish to say the least.
You know, not all people are the same - so generalizing is never the best (and not really smart) way to go.
People of the so called LGBT community arent a homogeneous mass... its like saying every straight person is the same. Every straight or whatever person is an individual and his thoughts arent connected to his/her sexuality.

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Agreed. It's usually the first move of bigotry to try and group people together into a 'mob' or an 'ideology'.

Why can't people just take comfort in what they perceive it as, and everyone leaves it at that? Literary and entertainment media often has many ways each medium can be interpreted. Where one sees the crystal's colors as a symbol for LGBTQ+ and the dynamic between Ryne and Gaia as a romantic relationship, others may see it as the return of the elements, the hope for the future of the First, and Gaia being able to free herself from the bonds of her past and look towards the future by the strength of her friendship with Ryne.

One way isn't correct over the other. We all view things differently, interpret things different, and certain moments speak to us all very differently. Each of us are a sum of our own life experiences, so no one is going to have exactly the same outlook or see the same message in any medium's form.

Really, arguing over it does no good. A discussion as to what each person sees is far more conductive. No one's view, as long as it's not hateful and destructive, is invalid.

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Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

Why can't people just take comfort in what they perceive it as, and everyone leaves it at that? Literary and entertainment media often has many ways each medium can be interpreted. Where one sees the crystal's colors as a symbol for LGBTQ+ and the dynamic between Ryne and Gaia as a romantic relationship, others may see it as the return of the elements, the hope for the future of the First, and Gaia being able to free herself from the bonds of her past and look towards the future by the strength of her friendship with Ryne.

One way isn't correct over the other. We all view things differently, interpret things different, and certain moments speak to us all very differently. Each of us are a sum of our own life experiences, so no one is going to have exactly the same outlook or see the same message in any medium's form.

Really, arguing over it does no good. A discussion as to what each person sees is far more conductive. No one's view, as long as it's not hateful and destructive, is invalid.

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People are free to have their headcanon, that isn’t really the issue here. It’s people pushing the headcanon as factual when there’s very little that actually supports it.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

But why is it "creepy" that two underaged girls can fall in love.. but on the other hand if a boy falls in love with a girl its cute and okay, huh?

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way to completely miss the point
it would've been just as creepy if one of the two was a boy, the point is that adults, grown men and women, are pushing their headcanon as the sole truth, that everyone that doesn't agree with them hates gays, lesbians and so on, just because they're not subscribing to someone's headcanon
yes, I think that is creepy

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

I fell in love with girls and boys at the age of 6+ and was afraid to telling someone to fall in love with the same gender, because of people like you.

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good for you, but I don't know what that has to do with my point? I was also afraid that my family and friends would reject me if they had learned that I was having feelings for a same sex friend, but truth to be told, I find it odd you'd bring something personal like that up over me finding adults that obsess over shipping underage characters creepy, might just be me, though

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Its normal, you now - since it happens to many of us.. and its nothing wrong or "creepy" about that.
Just as easy as that.

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shipping underage characters and attacking people that disagree with your headcanon is normal now? god, please help us (this is a sarcastic joke, I hope no one gets offended because of that)

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

way to completely miss the point
it would've been just as creepy if one of the two was a boy, the point is that adults, grown men and women, are pushing their headcanon as the sole truth, that everyone that doesn't agree with them hates gays, lesbians and so on, just because they're not subscribing to someone's headcanon
yes, I think that is creepy



good for you, but I don't know what that has to do with my point? I was also afraid that my family and friends would reject me if they had learned that I was having feelings for a same sex friend, but truth to be told, I find it odd you'd bring something personal like that up over me finding adults that obsess over shipping underage characters creepy, might just be me, though



shipping underage characters and attacking people that disagree with your headcanon is normal now? god, please help us (this is a sarcastic joke, I hope no one gets offended because of that)

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Anyway I'm so proud of my gay daughter and her goth girlfriend.

...God I hate LGBT discourse on video game forums, it's always some insecure straight person being like "WELL THAT'S YOUR HEADCANON." or "WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE GAY?".

thanks for proving my point and invalidating my sexuality

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Anyway I'm so proud of my gay daughter and her goth girlfriend.

...God I hate LGBT discourse on video game forums, it's always some insecure straight person being like "WELL THAT'S YOUR HEADCANON." or "WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE GAY?".

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I’m gay. I’m still saying it’s headcanon. I’m still asking yes, why do they have to be gay. I’m all for representation, but if it gets to a point where you have to ask,beg, and look so close at it to even see it doesn’t it defeat the purpose. SE has had no problem in the past with this game in labeling someone as gay or bi, if the girls were as such i’m sure they wouldn’t beat around the bush. Fact is with all the knowledge we’re given thus far, they’re little more than good friends. People can still headcanon them as whatever they wish, just don’t push that as factual lore and there isn’t really a problem.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

This is why same sex friendships and expressions there of are nonexistent these days. Given that when shown the mob claims it to be lgbtq+(bbqblt)++. It saddens me a great deal and corrupts the concept of love without lust or motive.

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What are you on about? There are tons of same sex friendships in this game and media in general. Just because there are people who also make romantic ships out of them does not change the fact that they are still friendships in canon. Finding a het friendship that doesn’t become romance is far more rare than finding a same sex friendship. There’s no reason for you to get so worked up about what fictional characters people want to ship. Live and let live, it’s not a big deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

LGBT has long since become its own ideology that exist to perpetuate itself. It no longer serves the individual, but rather the individual must serve it or be cast out and condemned. It corrupts everything it touches ideologically.

---

As someone that would fit into the LGBTQ community, this is why I disavow it, and distance myself from it like the plague. What drove me out of it was when ones sexual orientation was their defining trait, people got unnecessarily loud about their orientations and identities, and anyone that disagreed with the movement was considered to be an enemy, rather than someone on the fence. Worse yet is that somehow race was brought into it. You're 100% right on this, and I'll never associate with a divisive and intrusive movement like that again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Anyway I'm so proud of my gay daughter and her goth girlfriend.

...God I hate LGBT discourse on video game forums, it's always some insecure straight person being like "WELL THAT'S YOUR HEADCANON." or "WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE GAY?".

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Right...it's totally not like being so desperate for validation that every friendship in existence that happens to be the same sex is automatically gay.

I think something a lot of people don't realize is that by assigning characters like this into relationships, it further pushes and forces the idea that two people can't be very close without there having to be some ulterior motive which is just a bit depressing if I'm honest. I remember in high school I met a girl from hongkong who was really touchy feely. She loved to hug, hold onto friends and sit extra close, link arms when walking, etc. To her, it was just how friendships were in hongkong. but here in America, it was always interpreted as her somehow being gay and girls would push her off or tell her they didnt want to get in trouble for that which she didnt understand and instead felt like they just didnt want to be her friend. It's this weird western habit of sexualizing every single thing. Turning every moment of closeness into something it isnt. You can't even hug a friend without someone raising an eyebrow as if you just pinched each others rears. Obviously my issue isnt gayness-obviously lol. But moreso this just...weird era of everything having to be some kind of "ship".

I would say that and the double talk around the twins (pun not intended). How anyone who says anything romantic sounding about the twins is extra super weird and needs to be cancelled immediately, but ryne and gaia are completely fine because "they're TEENS most TEENS xyz its part of life". Ok the twins are teens too?? It's weird both ways lol. Just stop. It's weird all around-there is no situation in this equation where it's not weird to ship two young girls all because they open up to each other about their feelings and are close. The fact that being close friends makes people go "eeyup, they're in love!" makes me seriously worry for youth today trying to make friendships. Like what do you think friendships are. Have you never had a true one, is that the problem here? Why are you arriving at this conclusion based on their kindness to one another alone. It gives me incel dude mistaking kindness as being lead on vibes a bit. Idk.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

I think something a lot of people don't realize is that by assigning characters like this into relationships, it further pushes and forces the idea that two people can't be very close without there having to be some ulterior motive which is just a bit depressing if I'm honest. I remember in high school I met a girl from hongkong who was really touchy feely. She loved to hug, hold onto friends and sit extra close, link arms when walking, etc. To her, it was just how friendships were in hongkong. but here in America, it was always interpreted as her somehow being gay and girls would push her off or tell her they didnt want to get in trouble for that which she didnt understand and instead felt like they just didnt want to be her friend. It's this weird western habit of sexualizing every single thing. Turning every moment of closeness into something it isnt. You can't even hug a friend without someone raising an eyebrow as if you just pinched each others rears. Obviously my issue isnt gayness-obviously lol. But moreso this just...weird era of everything having to be some kind of "ship".

I would say that and the double talk around the twins (pun not intended). How anyone who says anything romantic sounding about the twins is extra super weird and needs to be cancelled immediately, but ryne and gaia are completely fine because "they're TEENS most TEENS xyz its part of life". Ok the twins are teens too?? It's weird both ways lol. Just stop. It's weird all around-there is no situation in this equation where it's not weird to ship two young girls all because they open up to each other about their feelings and are close. The fact that being close friends makes people go "eeyup, they're in love!" makes me seriously worry for youth today trying to make friendships. Like what do you think friendships are. Have you never had a true one, is that the problem here? Why are you arriving at this conclusion based on their kindness to one another alone. It gives me incel dude mistaking kindness as being lead on vibes a bit. Idk.

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This was a major running issue with the LOTR franchise and how close Frodo, Samwise, and the other two were. It was a very non-romantic but intimate relationship that people often mistook as a gay relationship. As you said, a close friendship does not always equate something romantic or sexual. And for cultures where physical contact is part of their way of expressing trust and friendship (ones like Greek and Italian), this is a curse now.

People can't be close friends anymore, it always has to mean something else.

This thread is still here.
Happy Holidays!

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Originally Posted by Vav2021

As someone that would fit into the LGBTQ community, this is why I disavow it, and distance myself from it like the plague. What drove me out of it was when ones sexual orientation was their defining trait, people got unnecessarily loud about their orientations and identities, and anyone that disagreed with the movement was considered to be an enemy, rather than someone on the fence. Worse yet is that somehow race was brought into it. You're 100% right on this, and I'll never associate with a divisive and intrusive movement like that again.

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Same - it's why I never really refer to myself as such.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

People are free to have their headcanon, that isn’t really the issue here. It’s people pushing the headcanon as factual when there’s very little that actually supports it.

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People often try to create couples in games/movies. On FF we had the "couples" Aymeric / Lucia, or Thancred / Minfillia. For the first one, nothing indicates that there is more than a relationship of trust between two soldiers. For the second one, the majority of the indications tend towards a family relationship.

When topics were raised about these couples, very few people took offense at this tendency to "force" relationships. Overall, the reactions are always ten times more pronounced when it comes to theories about potential gay couples.

Without saying that it is homophobia, one can decently say that there is a strong paranoia towards LGBT "propoganda"... even when it is not necessarily present. And therefore disproportionate reactions.

I'm quite surprised reading through this that so many people didn't see the relationship as romantic in nature. Just seemed so explicit to me. (Especially with the contrasting of the Mitron/Logrhif stuff which seems to actually be explicit now)

But no doubt they don't actually say it out loud so there is room for interpretation there.

Why did this get brought back up again?

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Why did this get brought back up again?

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Because I was bor....I mean because this is a very important topic.

This thread is a proof of how entitled western people are to think that everything in this world wants to automatically cater to their main popular agenda

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Originally Posted by Theox

This thread is a proof of how entitled western people are to think that everything in this world wants to automatically cater to their main popular agenda

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Are you a weeb by chance?

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

Are you a weeb by chance?

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I am not. Are you?

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Originally Posted by Theox

I am not. Are you?

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Former. I guess you can say it's a constant recovery process though. Sometimes I worry it'll come back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theox

This thread is a proof of how entitled western people are to think that everything in this world wants to automatically cater to their main popular agenda

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Rest assured that I don't want an agenda, I just want a good story and gameplay.

rights and representation are not the same thing. SE has never once violated any rights of anyone. You do know that, right? The title of this thread says "rights" while the body of the OP talks about representation. They are two different conversations.

On a side note, I don't want a long drawn out sex scene just to make you feel better. That's not why I play this game. I don't need to see two people kissing; I don't care who they are. Keep the bedroom stuff in the bedroom. You have all of the internet to watch that stuff. This is a video game.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

On a side note, I don't want a long drawn out sex scene just to make you feel better.

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Me thinkies person bringing up sex scenes out of nowhere might be projecting a little.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

But why is it "creepy" that two underaged girls can fall in love.. but on the other hand if a boy falls in love with a girl its cute and okay, huh?
I fell in love with girls and boys at the age of 6+ and was afraid to telling someone to fall in love with the same gender, because of people like you.

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I don't care if it's two girls, two boys, a girl and a genderless blob with no genitals, or a boy and a girl. I don't care.

I am not into watching and reading a love story between anyone in this game let alone two children.

I.
Just.
Don't.
Want.
To.
See.
That.

This is a video game where I play the Warrior of Light and Darkness and I hunt Primals. That's why I'm here. You have the whole entire Internet to read about child romance. I do not want to read those stories here. You, honestly are the creepy one.

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

Me thinkies person bringing up sex scenes out of nowhere might be projecting a little.

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I was just commenting on the statement made by the OP where he said he wanted it to be more explicit with kissing. To me that is sexual in nature and I do not want to see it. You can watch it on a sidequest if you feel the need- I want to hunt Primals.

Watching a scene as described by the OP involving children kissing would be creepy in my eyes. I do not know how you can stand to defend him against what I typed in my initial comment.

Kissing is sexual!? Jesus christ someone tell Disney they've been making porn!

Put it in a romance story then! Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? This is a video game. Where did the educational system fail you? I clearly stated I am here to play a video game. Are you trying to pick a fight? Is that what it is? What is your motivation here? Are you that triggered that I am not interested in seeing a child romance play out? Does that really fill you with rage because that would be a really creepy thing to be triggered by. Get some counseling!

I'm just pointing out you're clearly nuts if you think kissing is as explicit as "a long drawn out sex scene just to make you feel better" which is what you wrote right?

If you dont want romance in any games thats a weird, but fine take, nobody needs to like the same genres. But If you find the concept of any romance super lewd then I feel really sorry for you.

Something tells me though that you didn't voice any opposition to FF10, FF15 or Kingdom Hearts.

I love saying they're gay because of how mad all the insecure snowflakes get about it, but I actually don't think they are. Conventional ideas of sexuality tend to break down in close enough friendships anyways, especially when it's not between two cishet dudes that are desperate to prove how straight they are.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

There’s nothing indicating they’re together, it’s just headcanon.

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https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...r1QIn_uxL8.jpg

Sure. Just two gal pals holding hands in a very 'we are in a relationship' way.