What is this new anti dps healer attitude?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

More likely to do that after they create their own thread claiming parsers are Satan’s creation.

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What happened with the poll you made weeks ago? D:

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

What happened with the poll you made weeks ago? D:

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Still working on it. I’ve been really busy with school up until this week (Spring Break! \o/), so hopefully I can get it out by the end of this week. I wanted to work on it sooner, but I had a lot more work than I thought I actually would. Sorry it’s taking so long...

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Still working on it. I’ve been really busy with school up until this week (Spring Break! \o/), so hopefully I can get it out by the end of this week. I wanted to work on it sooner, but I had a lot more work than I thought I actually would. Sorry it’s taking so long...

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No problem! I was just curious! Take your time. :o

I just find the opposite. People complaining because a healer don't DPS.

TBH It's the same people that blame healers for wipes. They don't understand the game as well as they think they do. They blame others instead of seeing their own faults. My best advice would be to just ignore them.

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Originally Posted by MishkaRose

its more the tank ... being a healer / tank main myself it find it frustrating that all the healers that are DPSing leave my hp at less that 30% (almost anything can 1hit me)

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.. why the necro?

*shrug* I DPS while healing and no one ever complains. I usually get lots of comms for it actually. Running out of MP isn't an issue, I know how to balance it.

Of course I'm not one of those healers that waits until everyone's at 10%. I let others, especially strangers in DF, have some wiggle room for bad dodging/CDs - accidents do happen after all and a rez is such a waste of mana and party dps (that rez weakness).

The real question isn't really whether healers should or shouldn't dps, because a good healer knows how much they can do without putting the party at risk.

The real question is why there are so many bad healers that don't realize that how much they balance the heal vs dps ratio depends heavily on how the rest of the party performs and thus they need to adjust.

There are runs when a person can safely dps 80% of the time.
There are runs when it's more like 20% of the time because the other 80% is putting out lots of heals.

Healers adjust.

Round 1 Healers that don't dps - BAD!
Round 2 Healers that dps - BAD!
Round 3 Healers that heal - BAD...!

I DPS while healing too (while healing is not neccesary. You know - always be casting) and after month of playing this game never met anyone complaining and I am usually recieving two comms per run.

From my point of view (as a beginner) I am doing right thing.

I've been healing for nearly 2 years and have never been chewed out for DPS-ing. Just co-healers occasionally saying I wasn't DPS-ing at all when I was, but mainly through keeping all my SCH dots up so I could focus on shielding the tank. Sometimes people just want to have an attitude and it's not really your problem.

ARRRISE DEAD THREAD ARRIIIISE GIANT CHICKEN!!

At least there's not another thread about it.


So...yay?

To be honest, If I wasn't DPSing as a healer, I'd be so bored. HoT's do everything anyway, my boyf bought us Netflix now, so I might stop Dpsing...

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Originally Posted by Shouko

Round 1 Healers that don't dps - BAD!
Round 2 Healers that dps - BAD!
Round 3 Healers that heal - BAD...!

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Reminds me of one of my first posts here:

Players: "OMG stupid healers, why aren't you DPSing more? *kick*"
Also Players: "OMG stupid healers, why are you DPSing so much? *kick*"
Still Players: "How come more people aren't playing healers?"

Swiftcast to the rescue!

Far from new and (IMO) far from intelligent.

Edit: I’m far from intelligent for not noticing the OP time stamp...I need breakfast. :(

I think people who don't want healers to dps because they like to play it safe.

Scenario #1: Tank, Healer, DPS #1, DPS #2.
Party wiped...Tank blames healers for dpsing/ran out of MP and Healer blames the tank for not using cool downs correctly. It can be argued for hours.
Who's fault is it really? For DPS #1 and DPS #2, they DON'T CARE. All they want is to pass the duty! Even if it's 100% tank's fault, but for DPS #1 and DPS #2 to choose between (1) spending half hour "trying" to teach the tank to tank better without knowing if s/he will learn or not (2) healer stops dpsing and use the extra MP to make up for tank's bad tanking which can happen immediately.
It's not a difficult choice.

Scenario #2: Tank, Healer, DPS #1, DPS #2.
Party wiped...Healer blames the DPS #1 for getting hit by AOE too much. DPS #1 admits that s/he's using a slow computer. Everyone agrees that it's DPS#1's fault.
Now what? Unless the party wants to kick DPS #1 out, otherwise how to fix it? Wait an hour for DPS #1 to go get a new computer or again healer stops dpsing and use the extra MP to make up and hoping it's enough to make up for it.
It's not a difficult choice again.

The main point is, unless you are in a static party, you don't know if the tank is bad or if the DPS is bad or both, in situation like this, it may seems safer if healer will converse MP just in case someone is bad and hoping that's enough to prevent a wipe. Healer can say why should I sacrifice my dpsing enjoyment or [insert a reason] for someone else's failure. It's a legit complain! BUT if that's what it takes for the party to get by should the healer do it or not? It's really healer's choice. It's just a game, so I don't think anyone should force other people to play the way they want them to. I find it amazing how people can pay so much attention to what/how everyone else's doing because majority of the times I am just busy trying to keep my rotation and keep up my dps.

@Maystar05: Healers have no issues with MP anymore and outside spamming Holy/Gravity/Miasma II a healer should never be low on MP. Conserving MP is bad play since healers have oGCDs and MP management abilities that are core to healing and Dpsing properly.

Those scenarios happen like twice in a year....

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I am an old school from FF11 and I do not like healer to dps as I believed healer should reserve mp for emergency. There is no death penalty of of current mmorpg all thanks to WoW. When Eureka is here and there is death penalty of losing exp and de-lvl, I will lay back and laugh at those who believed healer should dps.

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The DPSing healers are just gonna be laughing at you while they heal and dps and not run out of MP.

I played FFXI as well and there are huge obvious differences between FFXI and FFXIV.

If you actually played both I am confused how you are completely unaware of how different healers and MP worked in FFXI compared to FFXIV.

The battle system in FFXI is completely different, the MP regeneration and management in FFXI is completely different, the battle pace in FFXI is completely different.

In FFXIV you can easily DPS as a healer and heal and also save MP for emergencies. Just because you cast some DPS spells doesn't mean you won't have MP for healing and/or emergency healing in this game.

I don't get why so many people seem to think MP is an issue and/or use it as a reason why healers should never DPS.....MP is not an issue. It's like they think if a healer casts even one DPS spell it takes all their MP away and then you have nothing to heal with lol.

I don't know what game they are playing but it isn't FFXIV obviously since I cast DPS spells on healer all the time yet still have MP for healing and for emergency healing.

It's impossible for a healer to win this arguement. Either we're DPS'ing too much or too little so i'm just sick of hearing it. Healers are always the scapegoat for bad players. Nevermind that BLM that just sits in the puddles soaking AOE or god forbid the tank actually pops cool downs... nope it's the healers fault! lol... it's just so ridiculous. How about this. Did you live? Yes? Great move on. If not then examine exactly why. It's not always the healers fault. Any damage they do on top of keeping everyone alive is icing on the cake.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

@Maystar05: Healers have no issues with MP anymore and outside spamming Holy/Gravity/Miasma II a healer should never be low on MP. Conserving MP is bad play since healers have oGCDs and MP management abilities that are core to healing and Dpsing properly.

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I was just trying to tell you what non-healers are thinking. Great, It's nice to know in a perfect world all the healers out there will never run of MP...even with multiple raising.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Those scenarios happen like twice in a year....

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It's just examples. You are missing the point. I was just trying to say other people don't care who's fault it really is. The healers were asked to stop dps often because it's just "seems" like the quickest fix.

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Originally Posted by Maystar05

I am just telling you all what bad players are thinking. Great, It's nice to know in a perfect world all the healers out there will never run of MP...even with multiple raising.

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Fixed that for you.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Fixed that for you.

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For non-healer players we don't know how healer's MP work, but healers on here seem to be saying that they can't run out of MP. Good/Bad non-healers can only believe what we are being told, so I don't know why you want to change it to "bad players".

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Originally Posted by Maystar05

I was just trying to tell you what non-healers are thinking. Great, It's nice to know in a perfect world all the healers out there will never run of MP...even with multiple raising.

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As a Scholar main I think it's pretty rare for us to fully run out of MP because we can always use dissipation for emergency MP drains and a temporary healing boost, but trying to keep a squishy undergeared tank who won't use cooldowns alive on AST while DPS gets hit by everything (or as that can also be referred to "a Rabanastre run") if you're not lucky enough to draw ewers is like playing as a bucket with a big ol' leaky hole at the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Texa

As a Scholar main I think it's pretty rare for us to fully run out of MP because we can always use dissipation for emergency MP drains and a temporary healing boost, but trying to keep a squishy undergeared tank who won't use cooldowns alive on AST while DPS gets hit by everything (or as that can also be referred to "a Rabanastre run") //OMIT//

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I used to play white mage in vanilla days and got to lv 50 and stopped playing the game. Haven't tried healer yet after returning to the game, but least for me, healer is definitely the most stressful job or maybe I was just not good at it. Lots of people like to blame healers for everything, but I am sure lots of people appreciate healers too. I for one almost always recommend healers because I know it can get quite hectic. I had a Royal Menagerie run where a healer healed through it solo, so I do believe healers can have a lot of MP.

The only reason why a White Mage would run out of MP now is if they have to raise multiple alliances. I say this as someone who is in Savage with two different White Mage characters.

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Originally Posted by Maystar05

For non-healer players we don't know how healer's MP work, but healers on here seem to be saying that they can't run out of MP. Good/Bad non-healers can only believe what we are being told, so I don't know why you want to change it to "bad players".

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"You can't run out of MP" is overstating it somewhat. In normal play, it's mostly true. But if you die and then have to raise 5 people, it gets ugly.

Put my WHM on a fight like O8N and it can go on for 20 minutes with me flinging rocks every free GCD, and I won't run out of MP. Lucid and Thin Air are just that good. Bonus points if there's Mana Shift coming. :D

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

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So to sum it up, You are unable to adapt to gameplay changes in a completely different MMO with completely different game mechanics, lol.

Also the removal of a death penalty has nothing to do with Wow, games and players change over time, it's not the fault of one mmo, I personally think people like to give Wow way too much credit.


Your last point makes zero sense. Do you seriously think that people dying due to mistakes in Eureka is somehow going to cause them to reflect about whether healers should dps or Not? No they aren't.

Honestly you're just coming off as a delusional tryhard that can't adjust to changes because this isn't your precious FF11. Seriously, grow up.

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Originally Posted by Maystar05

For non-healer players we don't know how healer's MP work, but healers on here seem to be saying that they can't run out of MP. Good/Bad non-healers can only believe what we are being told, so I don't know why you want to change it to "bad players".

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Well because only bad players don't want healer to dps so they can stand in bad stuff and can die 10 times.
The top pve players have healer doing dps not ones saving their mp so you can stand in shit.
Now if the healer is just here to spam ruin/stone all day and don't do their job that's a different story.

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Originally Posted by Maystar05

For non-healer players we don't know how healer's MP work, but healers on here seem to be saying that they can't run out of MP.

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It was a lot more common until SB. But with increases to our MP regain ability or abilities like Thin Air that completely negate MP usage, it's a rare time that we run out of MP and get into a bad spot. Even if we get low, our MP regeneration abilities work very quickly and refresh at a good rate. I have to be raising constantly, healing constantly, and adding in some dps to get into a danger area as a WHM. But since it was more common before, I can definitely see how the non-healer perception would view things from that stance.

I've seen this a little too. Especially in certain dungeons/content and really only after SB was released. It seems a lot of healers have taken the 'you must DPS or you're shit' attitude to heart and pump out DPS when they are not exactly comfortable or experienced enough to do so, or when in a group that doesn't mitigate their own damage very well... or at all. I had a tank in Bardam's Mettle beg me to heal over dps. I assured them that I prioritize healing and they fell all over themselves in thanks. *shrug* I still DPS'd but that's never my focus as healer. And especially not in that dungeon.

OP, I like that you're taking tanks to task because I've also noticed a distinct lack of defensive CD's in a lot of DF runs, and a particular lack of caution in DPS roles of late. On the flip side, I've seen no complaints about my lack of DPS when I have to focus on healing because of any of the above. It's another one of those 'I play how I want' arguments and if you're keeping your party alive then you're doing your job and no one has room to point fingers.

If you let the tank eat floor or the party wipe because you chose DPS over healing well... not everyone will take that as a teachable moment. Some will probably try to vote kick you, even if you give out solid advice. If people want less DPS from healers to adjust for their own insecurities, fine. But that certainly doesn't mean you have to give them that.

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Originally Posted by Selova

So to sum it up, You are unable to adapt to gameplay changes in a completely different MMO with completely different game mechanics, lol.
Honestly you're just coming off as a delusional tryhard that can't adjust to changes because this isn't your precious FF11. Seriously, grow up.

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You can say whatever you want chump.
This thread exist only because there are people have different believes but some delusional individuals trying to set healer must dps as meta and forced everyone to follow.
You can do whatever you want as long as someone didn't die.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

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I find it hilarious that you make claims that other people are delusional when you refuse to adapt to the reality that healer dps is a intended part of the game design and is expected of you in endgame content. Keep living I your little bubble though I'm sure it will get you far, champ.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You can say whatever you want chump.
This thread exist only because there are people have different believes but some delusional individuals trying to set healer must dps as meta and forced everyone to follow.
You can do whatever you want as long as someone didn't die.

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Based on my experience, the delusional individuals would be the players that insist healers should only heal. (BTW I main a healer and have done so in every Trinity MMO I ever played).

Like even in Wow, once we got good enough for a fight that our raid didn't need as many heals, I would throw out some attacks here and there depending on my mana. The idea of helping your party with whatever means necessary is not new nor is it specific to healers. It might be more noticeable in this game because the damage is so high and mp management is easier, but it is by no means exclusive to this game only.

To illustrate just how ridiculous this delusion that "healers should only heal" have, let's point out the following:

By that logic, I should NEVER use chain strategem for my party. After all, it increases party DPS but not my heals.
By that logic, AST cards should be only be used on oneself and not the party. Royal road an Ewer? Nope, that's my MP, I need it for healing. Giving a crit card on a BRD? Nope, I can use that crit to do more crit heals. All cards are for me, except Spire, but that'll make an AOE RR with 50% potency which means it'll decrease how much healing benefit the next card gives me...so I won't RR that, I'll just discard it. Because healers heal.
By that logic, a SMN or RDM should never rez or physick/vercure a person, and a BLM should never manaward, and the other DPS should never Second Wind. They're DPS dammit and that's all that, who cares if maybe one of the healers died or they're out of range.
By that logic, a BLM (or SMN or RDM) who notices a healer is low on mana should never cast manashift, because that's a loss in dps, a big loss if it's right around when Enochian is about to go off.
By that logic, the other DPS should never use Diversion. They're there to DPS dammit and the tank just needs to put out more enmity.
By that logic, a PLD should never use Clemency. That's a healing skill. Healing's for healers.
By that logic, no tanks should ever use mitigation CD. The job of a tank is to keep aggro and take on damage. It is not necessary to reduce said damage, that's for the healers to deal with.

By that logic, DPS and tanks should never bother dodging a non-lethal avoidable AOE. If they don't die, they can keep dealing damage and the healers will just heal. It doesn't matter whether it's to 50% or 20%. As long as it's not 0, don't dodge. Their job is to attack (DPS) and get Enmity (tank) which they can do more of if they don't dodge non-lethal attacks.

No one is advocating for healers that dps so much they let people get so low they're about to die. Those are just called bad healers, and to vilify ALL healer dps because of it is just ridiculous. There is a time to dps and people have to learn it, just like the tanks and DPS learned a time to use skills not required for their roles.

And honestly we need to give our tanks and dps more credit for helping us healers out in fights, but that's a discussion for another day.

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Originally Posted by Selova

I find it hilarious that you make claims that other people are delusional when you refuse to adapt to the reality that healer dps is a intended part of the game design and is expected of you in endgame content. Keep living I your little bubble though I'm sure it will get you far, champ.

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Oh don't worry for me, I am doing pretty well.
Like I said, you can do whatever you want as long as someone didn't not die because you want to cast an offensive spell.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

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I mean if you are somehow satisfied with intentionally bring s hindrance to your groups because you can't adapt to reality more power to you I guess. I do feel bad for any groups thst gets you as a healer.