Luminary tools- a real achievement

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Originally Posted by Victor

I've taken a look at your progress so far and you have yet to hit the plateau that will destroy your ambition. Picture a pool with a shallow and a deep end, or better yet, a lake where the point when the depth drops is sudden and immense. That's sort of what these achievements are like. There are alot of easy ones to keep you busy for a little while, fooling you into thinking you can do this. But once you hit that drop, the achievements become so vast in demand that your focus becomes skewed and defeat rears its ugly head. I'm approaching this point at the moment and it's not pleasant. I think maybe you will have a clearer idea of why there is so much backlash against this once you reach that point.

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you dont know me very well if you think i will be detered by them at any point

granted there are a few im not gonna try very hard for(10k leves for example)

but ALL the gathering/crafting ones are fairly easy to get given enough time, and i dont have to race for them, but i will get them.

and ive actualy made some damn good progress in them, my progress however is so spread out over several that it may seem like ive done less then i actualy have.



but as i look to people, the backlash, as ive stated, is coming from a specific group of people, those being the people who got 50 and dont wanna do it anymore, they didnt craft to become a crafter, they crafted to get to 50, they didnt gather to earn gil on items they gather or to gather in itself, they gathered to get to 50


ALL of the pure crafter/gatherers ive talked to in game, and on here, those who seriously enjoy it, and leveled it cuz thats what they wanted to do, are more then willing to go back and do some of these easy achievments again.

everyone else sees it as busy work or worthless or a waste of time

we see it as a way to motivate us to go back and make materials, and farm items, while getting rewarded for doing so

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Originally Posted by rocky

1 thing after saw u spam so many post.
just stand out and say i didnt use any BOT or other help to get all these lvl 50, i just push the button 1by1 to get all lvl 50.
and i will click those buttons again.

the only person who not complained these DOL DOH achievement design is person who use BOOOOOOOOOT.

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not a bot :)
anyone who knows me can more then confirm it(granted, if i WAS a bot, id have several of them by now already, so that alone should say something too)

actualy...thats an interesting idea, with how little time weve had to do all this im curious if anyone has done it yet, those are the people id be suspsicious of using less then legal means to do so.

i wouldn't mind so much if the first 4 achievements when by lvl and only the 5 was for 3000 crafts. i would have had it if the took current players into perspective when designing, but like i said before SE dont care about the people playing the game now, they only care about the future.

Anyways im not gonna grind for some fancy hammer that i dont really even need so i guess i wont be getting it.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

not a bot :)
anyone who knows me can more then confirm it(granted, if i WAS a bot, id have several of them by now already, so that alone should say something too)

actualy...thats an interesting idea, with how little time weve had to do all this im curious if anyone has done it yet, those are the people id be suspsicious of using less then legal means to do so.

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Not really hard with hasty hand. The gathering achievements (minus fishing with a bot), are the true timesinks.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Not really hard with hasty hand. The gathering achievements (minus fishing with a bot), are the true timesinks.

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hasty hands doesnt speed up the 41-50 stuff as much, but yeah it does make the lower ones go real quick
but even then, the massive ammount of time and materials to get them is still pretty iffy, and people botting them probly have done so on more then 1 already

me...i think ive done most of the 1-20 stuff, have gotten halfway through some 21-30 stuff, but im waiting to farm materials for them all so thats the holdup
on my gathering, ive done most of the secondary stuff, and im focusing on mining which is done with g1-2, and im 1/3 on g3, and about to be 1/3 on g4
itl take a few weeks, but itl get done in time, and ill have a ton of material sin the process to make a nice fortune, or turn into stuff for my synthing achievemnts :D

Depends on the craft really. Asm just like leveling up prior is the easiest and least time consuming. Just need a bunch of iron and shards (I think in the end its only 900ish iron ores). Shards you can buy almost purely from selling off the materia you make while doing 41-50 (iirc its like 250-300 synths per set of materia even with hasty hand).

Pick a synth in the 41-43 range if possible and you can hasty hand it. Did a bunch of gathering inbetween and sold off some mats and more materia to cover shard costs so your mileage may vary.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Depends on the craft really. Asm just like leveling up prior is the easiest and least time consuming. Just need a bunch of iron and shards (I think in the end its only 900ish iron ores). Shards you can buy almost purely from selling off the materia you make while doing 41-50 (iirc its like 250-300 synths per set of materia even with hasty hand).

Pick a synth in the 41-43 range if possible and you can hasty hand it.

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problem with materia is im using them ALL(making tier 1s with bone rings while doing this all) so profiting off it really isnt an option

HOWEVER< im not exactly poor

will have to look into some of the recipes for the 41+ range, i know with alchemy and carp i already got my plans made

problem is with certain other crafts(such as armow and blacksmithing) some of the ranges SUCK SUCK SUCK for finding a good synth to spam(steel ingots arent exactly viable unless you have a ton of bomb ash lying around or want to farm it for a week)

but there are options regardless, and in some cases, like goldsmithing, im going to be making items to sell, so itl be paced based on how fast things sell and so on

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

1. You CAN'T get the same results in Weathered Gears as you can in decent gears for your level. I learned this when I equipped a different gathering vest (sub-optimal) on my body thinking, 'Hey, while I'm out here chopping 1000's of trees, why not Spiritbond some stuff?' My rank 42 BTN dropped from being able to do 5 chops per grade 5 node to 3.
2. I really doubt we're getting a level cap increase anytime pre 2.0.
3. It is NOT that hard or impractical to get any of these tools if you actually are a gatherer/crafter. If however you just like having classes at rank 50 then yes, these are not the achievements for you. (A real gather or crafter will still of course take a bit of time to gain these tools BUT, they will work towards them naturally doing something they were doing anyway.)
4. Advertising that it is better to sell your character than actually play it probably isn't the wisest thing to do on SE's FFXIV forums...even if the forum reps are on vacation.
5. They are called Achievements for a reason...if everyone could have it and it was easy to get, what is the point?

6. Lastly, there are different ways of going about this that seem less grindy and more practical. So far, my BTN has made decent money selling the stuff I've gathered making the time I've spent harvesting worth a decent amount of gil...like so decent I'd go chop those nodes I don't even get exp for now even if I didn't get an achievement for it. Others have been using the mats they get doing there DOL to grind/level their DOH.
I got the first level of achievements done for my rank 50 CUL yesterday (I made some stacks of crafting food my rank 23 CRP can use). However since CUL gets new recipes with patch 1.21, I am waiting until I have new, fun recipes to work with to earn my golden frypan. But as a CUL I usually need to make low-mid level recipes to make the ingrediants I need for higher ranked synths. By making my own lower level mats to craft higher ranked food items, I'm again earning credits in more achievement slots AND lining my pockets with gil (or at least saving some).
And again, this is work/crafting I usually did anyway. Which goes back to 'if you think it's that much of a chore, then you really weren't a dedicated gatherer/crafter anyway and these aren't the tools for you.'

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1. Can't you? I've levelled fishing all the way to 48 without gathering gear. I know that you get less hits per node with bad gear but what I said in my post was you get the same items. ;) I don't care so much about getting 1 or 2 less hits per node when I have a chocobo to get me from A to B rather quickly.

2. It was mentioned in the 1.19 patch notes that certain materials like gold ore will return from patch 1.21. Where are they going to put these without upping the level cap? It makes perfect sense for gold to be the next tier metal above cobalt. It would be a waste to cram it into the same level range. Of course only SE knows for sure what their plans are but I would not be surprised at all if the cap goes up in February.

3. I am a crafter/gatherer, I'm sitting here with well over 400 million gil, you don't get that without being a dedicated crafter/gatherer. Yet I am still strongly against these. I made a lot of gil logging back in the summer on grade 4 in Cedarwood. While that would have earned me the grade 4 achievement for La Noscea it would not have earned me any of the others. A real gatherer will gather the materials they need or want to sell and there is absolutely no profit to be made by going back to a lower grade in 90% of cases. Grade 4 logging being a better money maker than grade 5 was an exception rather than the norm. As a miner I only ever mined grade 5 once I hit 38 because it was stupid not to. Likewise with crafting, I'm not going to make any gil by producing 1000 rank 30 items, I'm going to make gil producing +3 end-game weapons or similar. There is no incentive to produce gear no one wants unless skilling up. There's a reason I NPCed about 1000 yew half masks/silver rings etc. back in the day rather than selling them. I'm almost certain by GSM and CRP would have these achievements if things counted. I can't say that for my others because the progress was mostly leve based and in a lot of cases after the massive EXP boosts. But it doesn't take a genious to figure out a formula to credit people based on when they reached rank 50.

4. You probably have a point there but my point still stands that it would be stupid to do this on a character with all 50s when you could end up with two characters with every class at 50. Crafting and gathering is not fun in its current state, no one wishes to repeat a year of that. I can only tolerate grinding crafts via leves these days because it's so painfully slow to do it without leves, something you'll have to do to get these tools. Since you love it so much perhaps you can log into my account and get my tools for me too.

5. There's better ways to make an achievement difficult to get without making it the least form of gameplay imaginable. Where's my achievement for making 1000 HQs? Far better than endlessly grinding no? The achievements aren't even difficult, just time consuming. Time sink != difficulty.

6. I believe I already covered this in 3.

A simple fix to this might be adding craft an item 1-10+, 10-20+ ect.... I've been working on this achievement and have been just spamming leves using hasty hands. It would be much more satisfactory if we could just craft things want to craft. its would be less tedious if we can craft a 50-60 and it would add to anything lower total because its obvious we can do so if we wanted to use our time on low level items that well never use. what do you all think?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

hasty hands doesnt speed up the 41-50 stuff as much, but yeah it does make the lower ones go real quick
but even then, the massive ammount of time and materials to get them is still pretty iffy, and people botting them probly have done so on more then 1 already

me...i think ive done most of the 1-20 stuff, have gotten halfway through some 21-30 stuff, but im waiting to farm materials for them all so thats the holdup
on my gathering, ive done most of the secondary stuff, and im focusing on mining which is done with g1-2, and im 1/3 on g3, and about to be 1/3 on g4
itl take a few weeks, but itl get done in time, and ill have a ton of material sin the process to make a nice fortune, or turn into stuff for my synthing achievemnts :D

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speak for your self, i hasty handed my way from 45-50 in a few days doing leves.(ihad 99 leve allowances so if i failed one i could redo it on spot thogh)

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Originally Posted by Xenor

1. Can't you? I've levelled fishing all the way to 48 without gathering gear. I know that you get less hits per node with bad gear but what I said in my post was you get the same items. ;) I don't care so much about getting 1 or 2 less hits per node when I have a chocobo to get me from A to B rather quickly.

2. It was mentioned in the 1.19 patch notes that certain materials like gold ore will return from patch 1.21. Where are they going to put these without upping the level cap? It makes perfect sense for gold to be the next tier metal above cobalt. It would be a waste to cram it into the same level range. Of course only SE knows for sure what their plans are but I would not be surprised at all if the cap goes up in February.

3. I am a crafter/gatherer, I'm sitting here with well over 400 million gil, you don't get that without being a dedicated crafter/gatherer. Yet I am still strongly against these. I made a lot of gil logging back in the summer on grade 4 in Cedarwood. While that would have earned me the grade 4 achievement for La Noscea it would not have earned me any of the others. A real gatherer will gather the materials they need or want to sell and there is absolutely no profit to be made by going back to a lower grade in 90% of cases. Grade 4 logging being a better money maker than grade 5 was an exception rather than the norm. As a miner I only ever mined grade 5 once I hit 38 because it was stupid not to. Likewise with crafting, I'm not going to make any gil by producing 1000 rank 30 items, I'm going to make gil producing +3 end-game weapons or similar. There is no incentive to produce gear no one wants unless skilling up. There's a reason I NPCed about 1000 yew half masks/silver rings etc. back in the day rather than selling them. I'm almost certain by GSM and CRP would have these achievements if things counted. I can't say that for my others because the progress was mostly leve based and in a lot of cases after the massive EXP boosts. But it doesn't take a genious to figure out a formula to credit people based on when they reached rank 50.

4. You probably have a point there but my point still stands that it would be stupid to do this on a character with all 50s when you could end up with two characters with every class at 50. Crafting and gathering is not fun in its current state, no one wishes to repeat a year of that. I can only tolerate grinding crafts via leves these days because it's so painfully slow to do it without leves, something you'll have to do to get these tools. Since you love it so much perhaps you can log into my account and get my tools for me too.

5. There's better ways to make an achievement difficult to get without making it the least form of gameplay imaginable. Where's my achievement for making 1000 HQs? Far better than endlessly grinding no? The achievements aren't even difficult, just time consuming. Time sink != difficulty.

6. I believe I already covered this in 3.

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1. In this case while I might have misunderstood you, it DOES make more sense to want to get as many hits as possible from each node since the whole achievement is based on successful no. of attempts and not your ability to gain rare mats.
2. Goldsmith, ALC and CUL still have yet to receive there recipe adjustments. SE probably has to add several different key mats back into the game for these specific crafts. Gold is actually probably = in tier to Colbalt. However, Gold will be used in Goldsmith synths and Colbalt will not be. Both ores of course might occasionally be an ingrediant in other synths, but Gold will be considered a Goldsmith synth. (It's in the name ;) ) Therefore, they probably won't raise level cap but instead add these materials back into zones that might seem to double up on some stuff. (ex. BTN can get Yew Logs in both Grade 3 and 4 nodes, maybe they will fix it so Grade 3 still equals Yew but Grade 4 gets one of these 'new' mats). I just don't see a level increase being good for SE, the game or the playerbase atm....that being said, this is SE so you might be very right.

3. Look I get you think this sucks, and if we got 'credit' for past farming that'd be hot. But we don't. It has been pointed out even if you ranked a craft/gatherer honestly, you would not meet the achievement requirements. And while I DO personally believe that SE knows exactly what nodes we've harvested from and how many synths we did PRE patch 1.20, they never kept track of this under the old achievement system. So yes, we have to redo...if you don't like use your 400 million gil to HQ a forbidden materia tool or two. It'll be on par or better than the luminary tools, have an actual monetary value (lum. tools rare/ex) and helps you avoid doing an achievement system you don't like.
What I was trying to say is yes, all crafter/gathers walked in and saw this and were like 'WHOA'. But SE's not going to change it. So at the end of the day, if you really want the tools, you'll have to do the work. And the work thus far on my server has been profitable. Esp since all the dedicated crafters/gatherers ARE rank 50 and only go after grade 4/5 nodes most of the time. This means there is a need for lower level stuff. (also 3 nodes per zone for rank 1= achievement and 2hours or less=rank 2 achievement (I got main hand and off-hand in about this amount of time.) So the majority of your time IS spent in grades 3+ which is where the majority of the gil is. And you can Hasty hand most if not all the crafting achievement if you really want to.
4. I don't see it as 'repeating' anything. Anytime you make a synth post hitting level cap, you are technically repeating yourself. So now they created an achievement system. No biggie, just work on the top tier of achievements first, or continue to make exactly what you made before and when you cap that tier THEN think about what you can do to get the missing tiers done. It won't feel as grindy then.
5. There probably will be an achievement system for HQ's one day. But first, they need to finish re-writing all the crafting classes. Also, something would need to change for CUL/ALC because since they currently lack 'touch up', it is slightly harder to gain achievements for HQ's. Also, since SE is changing how we craft to get an HQ, this achievement will need to wait until then. (and again, probably won't count any HQ you crafted previously)

At the end of the day, you can either hate this and do it anyway, or hate it and say screw you SE. None of us are like 'YAY! I need to chop 12000 grade 5 trees...fun, excitement'. However, there are those of us who see value in doing this because 1. it's what we were sorta doing in game anyway, and 2. not everyone will put in the time and effort. And in a game where SO many people are walking around with capped out classes and jobs, having a way to show you put in extra time/effort creates enough of a sense of pride that there are some of us willing to do it.

1. Yes but my point is you don't need the tool because it's not going to help you get items any more than the next best tool. It would be nice if it did, but then I'd have even more reason to complain about the achievement.

2. It's possible they will do that but you're wrong about goldsmith, it did receive equal recipe adjustments as the other five DoHs back in 1.19. The only thing that wasn't changed was jewellery. Lots of materials were shuffled and mythril became an important material whereas before it was only used in a few things. We'll wait and see on this one.

3. I suppose I could aim for one or two tools rather than looking at it like I need the whole set. Perhaps this is SE's way of forcing people to specialse in a craft. Only the crazy no-lifers or botters will ever have all of them. I don't even see the need for single melded tools at the end of the day but what if SE makes these matter? What if a shiny golden tool some day makes bot guy a better crafter than me? If the crafting system was fun I don't think people would care so much about having to repeat the grind.

4. lol by the time I do 4000 rank 40+ synths without grinding for this achievement the level cap will be 70 nevermind 60. 4000 is huge. I estimate I made about 2500 walnut masks back in the day to take CRP 40-50 and that was a super painful grind. You're talking almost double that. It's not going to happen unless you grind it out.

5. Touch up will be irrelevant after they change the HQ system to be HQ ingredient = HQ result. Just like all that extra power on your tool will be irrelevant because all that will matter is completing the synth and a rank 1 tool will do that for you with the right abilities nevermind a luminary.

1. SE is darned if it does, Darned if it doesn't.
2. Stat and class changes make jewelry basically removeable materia. Gold stuff will be a pretty big deal if it happens.
3. Just because you don't want them all doesn't mean that there's something wrong with those that do.
4. Trudat. Grind away!
5. Speculation.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

2. It was mentioned in the 1.19 patch notes that certain materials like gold ore will return from patch 1.21. Where are they going to put these without upping the level cap? It makes perfect sense for gold to be the next tier metal above cobalt. It would be a waste to cram it into the same level range. Of course only SE knows for sure what their plans are but I would not be surprised at all if the cap goes up in February.

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Fisher had grade 1-10. It wouldn't be hard to put a grade 6 for all gatheres ingame without to increase the level cap. Or just put some new items in the current grades and make a high failure chance to get it with the wrong stats/tools.

Did you all see what I made?

Its an Item Outcome Per Grade Chart...

Would be nice to have % figures for ever item.

edit: You will notice the chart reads from left to right. I don't have the items per grade for fishing and haven't finished putting in the sweet-spots for items other than mining, which can easily be found at Disciplesoftheland.com.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

It's nice to see some jobless people working towards this 24/7 legitimately,

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Yay for sweeping generalizations!

somebody posted on Pro a pic of them with the gold saw

There is also a pic up there of a guy with the golden skillet/pan/whateveritscalled

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Did you all see what I made?

Its an Item Outcome Per Grade Chart...

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I'm not sure I understand the point of your spreadsheet here... If you're just compliling a list of every item you can get through gathering, you could easily just have gone here for an official list.

This thread is still going, seriously? /popcorn

OK, I'm about to shoot myself in the head over how unnecessarily difficult gathering in Halatali is right now. Thanalan has always been more difficult, but Halatali is so spread out, with mining nodes both in mesas and underground tunnels; wide swaths of antlings that require you to activate stealth far away...

In all seriousness, it's going to take double the time of Iron Lake to get any of the achievements. Any way to make it a little less painful?!?

I'm not a newbie gatherer, but I'm frustrated beyond belief right now.

Took 30ish hours for Halatali, never going there ever again. Really isn't anything that makes it easier other than try to focus on the west side vs. the east side. East has alot of nodes in annoying places like in the caves with mobs. West just has one area you have to worry about with ants.

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Originally Posted by Jamison

OK, I'm about to shoot myself in the head over how unnecessarily difficult gathering in Halatali is right now. Thanalan has always been more difficult, but Halatali is so spread out, with mining nodes both in mesas and underground tunnels; wide swaths of antlings that require you to activate stealth far away...

In all seriousness, it's going to take double the time of Iron Lake to get any of the achievements. Any way to make it a little less painful?!?

I'm not a newbie gatherer, but I'm frustrated beyond belief right now.

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And what you are saying is why most gatherers went to shroud or iron lake to hit 50
and its why pretty much no one except for the most obsessive electrum farmers would even have the achievment even if it was retro :D


the electrum is my motivation to keep at it, just think of all the electrum

200 lvl 11-20 crafts away from getting my gold alembic :O

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Originally Posted by Ziar

200 lvl 11-20 crafts away from getting my gold alembic :O

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Ugh its so ugly lol

http://i42.tinypic.com/k0rnkj.png












Also

When you see it..
http://i39.tinypic.com/35le0x5.png



http://i39.tinypic.com/29q01go.png

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Took 30ish hours for Halatali, never going there ever again. Really isn't anything that makes it easier other than try to focus on the west side vs. the east side. East has alot of nodes in annoying places like in the caves with mobs. West just has one area you have to worry about with ants.

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The worst has to be Grid, just because half the time I don't know which level the node is on :c Trying to knock out Ul and Grid and save LL for last (sweet, sweet LL)

Woot! Just got my Axe of the Luminary, started a thread over in the botanist section http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...287#post517287.

Here is a pic:

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...1326552098.jpg

congrats you two!

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Originally Posted by Picoman

Woot! Just got my Axe of the Luminary, started a thread over in the botanist section http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...287#post517287.

Here is a pic:

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...1326552098.jpg

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nice, i finished my alembic this week too(granted, im doing all 9 luminary tools so im a bit spread out so i coulda had this weeks ago)

i dread the gathering ones, they will come in time but i just cant focus any 1 cuz of how long itl take, but thats ok!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

nice, i finished my alembic this week too(granted, im doing all 9 luminary tools so im a bit spread out so i coulda had this weeks ago)

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what a backhanded compliment lol

congrats!

Holy cow, you guys are crazy. I'm still trying to work on my frying pan. hahaha. I need to go fish up more fish there for cooking!


I don't even want to think about the gathering ones. My goal is just to gather and make money and hope the achievments come without me noticing <_<

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Originally Posted by Ziar

http://i39.tinypic.com/29q01go.png

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Yeah.
Stuff like that.

lol I'm still working on the first one! I keep getting distracted by other stuff...

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Originally Posted by Quatre

Holy cow, you guys are crazy. I'm still trying to work on my frying pan. hahaha. I need to go fish up more fish there for cooking!


I don't even want to think about the gathering ones. My goal is just to gather and make money and hope the achievments come without me noticing <_<

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good luck with that, since every fish recipe thats 41-50 doesnt exist(the fish dont that is) youll pretty much be waiting til 1.21 on that to finish it

Do mugwort carp. Easy synth since you can buy mugwort now. Just need the fish.

Yay!

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...703700079d.jpg

Took forever but I finally got it!

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yay!

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...703700079d.jpg

Took forever but I finally got it!

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And just in time for the apocalypse!
Yaaaaaaaaay

Yep! i'm glad I made it in time! ^^

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Yay!

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...703700079d.jpg

Took forever but I finally got it!

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not bad, im up to all 8 crafting now, and gonna get my mining soon
oh god the horror of the grind of gathering
but oh god the money! i love it

/cheer
I just got mine last weekend too! :D
and I'll still keep chopping trees!! To me, that's what "A Botanist's Life for me" means.

http://i.imgbox.com/aah4s6Wy.jpg

I'm still plugging away at mine, mostly since I've been leveling btn and fsh at the same time, and min is at lv 50 already, so I've got a lot of lower grade gathering to do for those three classes
-.-

anyone got multiple tools already?