Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

Makes me wonder if those "I play healer to heal, not to DPS" -people would say anything if tanks and damage dealers would join with them and only go with minimal effort.

Dungeons got nice 90 minutes time limit, so might as well stay in there for whole duration instead of going through it in 15 mins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

I never expect them to be used. Setting the bar of expectations on DF DPS really low on this. Always a bonus if they get used in a smart way though.

---

Fair enough I suppose, especially when it's basically bannable to criticize and help df dps improve to the point healer dps isn't needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

If it were only meant to be able to dps in the world then CS would have been disabled withing dungeons/raids.


Because I *am* a healer and the only thing I find disgusting is people thinking it is ok for ANY role to sit there and look cute for over half of a dungeon.

---

Quite frankly your opinion on what is disgusting is just that your opinion. My opinion is that healers should throw dps when able, but that is my opinion. The difference is I can accept what Yoshi said about the healer's role in a dungeon and what others might do because of said statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

I never expect them to be used. Setting the bar of expectations on DF DPS really low on this. Always a bonus if they get used in a smart way though.

---

Food for thought, maybe if we, as a collective, raised our standards just a *tiny* bit then we wouldn't need threads like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feidam

Quite frankly your opinion on what is disgusting is just that your opinion. My opinion is that healers should throw dps when able, but that is my opinion. The difference is I can accept what Yoshi said about the healer's role in a dungeon and what others might do because of said statement.

---

Once again, I never debated his comments, I said that his comments don't matter if your group decides to kick you for not being a fully contributing member.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Food for thought, maybe if we, as a collective, raised our standards just a *tiny* bit then we wouldn't need threads like this.

---

or if we weren't so salty about people in casual content in a game they play for fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

And the most amusing part of all is they removed stance dancing thus making it easier to dps and increasing the expectation that people would. :)

---

And force WHM in more healing at the same time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

Makes me wonder if those "I play healer to heal, not to DPS" -people would say anything if tanks and damage dealers would join with them and only go with minimal effort.

Dungeons got nice 90 minutes time limit, so might as well stay in there for whole duration instead of going through it in 15 mins.

---

Except that Healers do not have more to heal, but DPS have more Damage to do.

There is a difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Food for thought, maybe if we, as a collective, raised our standards just a *tiny* bit then we wouldn't need threads like this.

---

Can't spell "standards" without "elitist scum"

Oh wait...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Albinosmurfs

or if we weren't so salty about people in casual content in a game they play for fun.

---

There is plenty of game for them to play that doesn't force their inability to be a team player on others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rasylia

Except that Healers do not have more to heal, but DPS have more Damage to do.

There is a difference.

---

As long as I do enough damage to complete dungeon within time limit, I have done my job.

"Speedrunning" is optional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

As long as I do enough damage to complete dungeon within time limit, I have done my job.

"Speedrunning" is optional.

---

What about doing it at a normal pace then?
Does everything have to be either "Super Lazy" or "Speedrun freaks"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

I am going to quote a person from youtube named Sotrubaby when he stated "When you EXPECT a healer to dps, you EXPECT a dps to heal you". That is all that needs to be said!

---

That's stupid most DPS don't have heal skills. People want healers to DPS because they can and most of the time would be standing around doing nothing. IDK why I responded to thing troll thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evergrey

What about doing it at a normal pace then?
Does everything have to be either "Super Lazy" or "Speedrun freaks"?

---

What about doing dps when there's no healing to be done? Does everything have to be either "Healers only heal" or "cleric stance 24/7 world first tier dps"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spf1200

That's stupid most DPS don't have heal skills. People want healers to DPS because they can and most of the time would be standing around doing nothing. IDK why I responded to thing troll thread

---

To expand upon this, if they did have heal spells and there was nothing to damage at a time where there was damage to heal... you can bet your sweet behind I would expect them to use those skills to help out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

What about doing dps when there's no healing to be done? Does everything have to be either "Healers only heal" or "cleric stance 24/7 world first tier dps"?

---

Clearly that is not a thing. Anyone who tosses out a few dots and maybe a hard cast now and again is a top-tier player. Maybe we should feel complimented that they think so highly of us?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tanston

After reading thru this thread the only conclusion I can draw is that the way healers are treated by this community is disgusting.

---

The good thing is the most of the healers just ignore these moronic nonsense coming from members telling a healer what they should be doing and what should not.

Then again this is coming from very average players that seemed to struggle to understand their own "mains". Just look at their characters to gain more knowledge on how this people are totally CLUELESS as to what they are contributing to this topic.

People need to focus on what role they have chosen. If you are a Drg , learn your rotations maximise your damage . If you are a WAR make sure you know how to keep enmity and learnt to use your CDs. If you are a WHM learn to control your mana and make sure everyone is full healed. Such a simple logic but some are truly thick to not understand basics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

To expand upon this, if they did have heal spells and there was nothing to damage at a time where there was damage to heal... you can bet your sweet behind I would expect them to use those skills to help out.

---

To further expand one of the big reasons to take a SMN into raid content is so they can eat a rez and conserve healer MP, and RDM may face a similar scene.

If you're going to spend half a fight doing nothing, you're being lazy and underperforming. It doesn't matter if you're a healer that only heals, or a PLD that spams Flash for aggro then tabs out, or a BRD that uses Heavy Shot every 5 seconds. Why even bother spending money on something you don't want to learn or improve at?

Yoshi will say whatever gets him the most subs, but that doesn't mean the game is designed to make that the best way to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Food for thought, maybe if we, as a collective, raised our standards just a *tiny* bit then we wouldn't need threads like this.

---

I'd go to the DPS first and attempt to raise their standards first (getting enough 'lazy' damage dealers here as well) before I start making stabs on the other roles.
But oh no, using measurement programs to display their contribution to the total DPS are evil, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mature

The good thing is the most of the healers just ignore these moronic nonsense coming from members telling a healer what they should be doing and what should not.

---

WTF are you still doing here, all of your words are completely stupid, people asked to get out of this thread with your ideas.
Ignore your party members feel free to queue another time cause vote kick on healers gonna be a real thing with SB, no more excuses to not DPS since they removed the stance dance :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

What about doing dps when there's no healing to be done? Does everything have to be either "Healers only heal" or "cleric stance 24/7 world first tier dps"?

---

It doesn't, just the majority takes on side or the other. The game isn't intended to include healers damage deal but it is designed for it during certain points. This means that dungeon (A) doesn't require a mage to heal, but that doesn't mean there aren't opportunities for it.

For every side chosen there's a story to either go against it or for it. The middle is where I sit on most situations because both sides have their points and both sides have their pile of crap that they spew everywhere.

The topic keeps coming up but it is only because they don't agree fully is why this will never be resolved.

One thing I noticed in 4.0 is that each job now has more to do than just their role, they have the option to help. We are going to see a lot more of this spread through other jobs and the result is going to be the same. We have the ability to perform duties in a certain order. Damage dealing isn't required but it is on our "To-do" list, as long as our requirements are met. Now these requirements scale with each person and their pecking order changes.

Then again, I think content (most content at least) doesn't require much healing 100% of the time. This is why some go "why don't you do some damage?"

To put this in a real world situation I am not intended to work remotely, but I can and when the situation comes up I'm able to VPN from home rather than ride in the snow and ice. It's an option, and conditions are met I will do it...or I can choose to not do it and call it weather leave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

What about doing dps when there's no healing to be done? Does everything have to be either "Healers only heal" or "cleric stance 24/7 world first tier dps"?

---

Not everyone play games to perform 150% at everything.
Alot of people play games to relax and just have a good time.
Some people like to perform 150% and try to improve their gameplay while others don't.
No one can expect that everyone should do everything just because they can.
We are all humans and we are all different.

Since the game is built that Healers don't have to DPS doesn't mean they never should.
But that doesn't mean people are right to force them to do so either.
If you feel unjustified because a class or two doesn't have to do as much work as you do, switch to the same class and be lazy aswell.

But if the fact that other people doesn't play like you see fit bothers you, find other likeminded people and form a premade group.
That was you don't have to see the lazy randoms anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

I'd go to the DPS first and attempt to raise their standards first (getting enough 'lazy' damage dealers here as well) before I start making stabs on the other roles.
But oh no, using measurement programs to display their contribution to the total DPS are evil, right?

---

I don't disagree that the DPS roles (as far as damage contribution) should be looked at first. Also, why on earth would you think I am against parsers? HINT: I am not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rasylia

English Language, "You" is used for everything. My bad then for feeling attacked.

Fun fact though, the way you describe it makes it look like none of the people here complaining are any better than the actual people they complain about.

---

Fair enough. I was speaking more in general terms. Apologies if it didn't translate well.

And that is because of how this thread is phased. Many of us posting here are sick of people leaping to essentially say "See! See! Yoshida said I don't have to DPS at all! So nyeh!" The OP more or less emphasised that tone, thus people responded more harshly. Very few players care about numbers, though they'll certainly grumble about it in their FC chats or on Discord. What irks them is a lack of effort. For myself, I farmed A12S yesterday with two White Mages. Neither did world beating numbers but whatever. They did a fair bit, which is all I ask. The same applies to dungeons. I don't need 1,000 DPS healers. I'll take half that. What I dislike is someone doing zero who isn't new or hasn't announced in chat they don't have a lot of experience. I have a lot of patience with newer players and will go out of my way to make it easier if they tell me. When I see a 260-270 healer standing around though? That's just disrespectful, in my opinion. They know the dungeon; should know how to heal and DPS, but they choose not to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Watachy

WTF are you still doing here, all of your words are completely stupid, people asked to get out of this thread with your ideas.
Ignore your party members feel free to queue another time cause vote kick on healers gonna be a real thing with SB, no more excuses to not DPS since they removed the stance dance :)

---

If you don't have anything else to contribute to this thread regarding the matter you've been told to keep quiet and move on. Keep on topic thanks

Funny how you go on and on about healers being lazy but looking at your character it seems to me that you not putting much effort into learning or understanding classes. Don't even know what you are doing here. I don't think you have much of a right calling others lazy... The irony..

Quote:

---

Since the game is built that Healers don't have to DPS doesn't mean they never should.

---

Now let me laugh because, like your own question I swapped some words in, I could do the same with your answer. I don't particularly FEEL like playing to the highest ability my class can offer, I'll just spam True Thrust and if you want a better DRG or feel that's too lazy just switch to DRG and play it yourself or form a premade so you don't ever have to see me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Now, even if that was a paraphrase(which to anyone who views the video that it isn't) Yoshi P made it clear that if a person plays a healer....the game has been designed it for Healer DPS to be a OPTIONAL CHOICE! Not a required one.

---

The only thing this shows is that Yoshi P is out of touch with what the game is really like at the high-end level of play. It would not be the first time that he's shown this kind of shortsightedness.

Long story short, just because the director of the game says it's "okay" doesn't actually mean it's actually okay. Yoshi's a busy man; he probably doesn't have the time to raid, and in all likelihood does not even do things like grind dungeons for tomestones - both instances where healer DPS is highly valued. It may have been his vision for DPS to be optional for healers - but the reality is determined by the players, not by the developers. The devs make the playground, but we're the ones who have to play in it. And if you're a healer who's sitting on their thumbs when you could be contributing more - well, I don't particularly want to play with you. It's your choice - and also mine.

Hahahaha I can't stop laughing at these threads. The irony of these lazy people putting so much effort to justify themselves being lazy. The millennial generation in a nutshell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MomoOG

Hahahaha I can't stop laughing at these threads. The irony of these lazy people putting so much effort to justify themselves being lazy. The millennial generation in a nutshell.

---

You can't talk about millennials like that we're the best generation don't you know! All you pls fogeys are the same why can't you just admit we're smarter and go live in a retirement home or something!

Normally hate replying to a 30+ page thread but...

My only issue with healers DPSing topic is that the lazy healers are called out more then the lazy tanks and lazy DPS.

If I notice the DPS is half in there, I should be allowed to do the same. However the second I do, my healer brothers and I get called out for it?

I love dpsing on my whm. Holy spam gets me off like nothing else. But if I'm the only one paying attention in the dungeon, I should be able to put on Netflix like everyone else.

That's all I ask, and quite frankly that's what I think a lot (not all) of the other healers are asking too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Now let me laugh because, like your own question I swapped some words in, I could do the same with your answer. I don't particularly FEEL like playing to the highest ability my class can offer, I'll just spam True Thrust and if you want a better DRG or feel that's too lazy just switch to DRG and play it yourself or form a premade so you don't ever have to see me.

---

I never said that "not feeling like it" means that they only spam 1 button. It could just mean they do a rotation or two but not much else, like cooldowns or trying to squeeze in that extra DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keramory

Normally hate replying to a 30+ page thread but...

My only issue with healers DPSing topic is that the lazy healers are called out more then the lazy tanks and lazy DPS.

If I notice the DPS is half in there, I should be allowed to do the same. However the second I do, my healer brothers and I get called out for it?

I love dpsing on my whm. Holy spam gets me off like nothing else. But if I'm the only one paying attention in the dungeon, I should be able to put on Netflix like everyone else.

That's all I ask, and quite frankly that's what I think a lot (not all) of the other healers are asking too.

---

Well, the thread is about Healer DPSing, not Tank or DPS.
Can start a new thread (probably already existing ones) threads about lazy Tank and/or DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keramory

Normally hate replying to a 30+ page thread but...

My only issue with healers DPSing topic is that the lazy healers are called out more then the lazy tanks and lazy DPS.

If I notice the DPS is half in there, I should be allowed to do the same. However the second I do, my healer brothers and I get called out for it?

I love dpsing on my whm. Holy spam gets me off like nothing else. But if I'm the only one paying attention in the dungeon, I should be able to put on Netflix like everyone else.

That's all I ask, and quite frankly that's what I think a lot (not all) of the other healers are asking too.

---

Ok, but... no one at all has said it is ok for a DPS/Tank to slack either. A slacking tank is bad. A slacking dps is bad. A slacking healer is bad. It really is that simple. As for why healers get talked about more... because people keep making flipping topics about how they shouldn't be expected to dps. If tanks were posting that they shouldn't have to or dps were posting that they shouldn't have to then you would see people flipping out on them too.

yoshi say DPS as a healer is not mandatory and complety optional if you want and all be nice and respect eachother and ppl do the oposite, ppl need to learn to lower they personal expectations to game standards and open they minds a bit more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

yoshi say DPS as a healer is not mandatory and complety optional if you want and all be nice and respect eachother and ppl do the oposite, ppl need to learn to lower they personal expectations to game standards and open they minds a bit more.

---

Respect each others? On the internet? In an MMO of all things?

https://cilisos.my/wp-content/upload...sibru-meme.png

It really doesn't matter what he says. Just like if a DPS or tank doesn't put up a good enough effort today or tomorrow, you'll be judged and there will always be better players to recruit and pool from over a 0 DPS "raid" healer.

Most good end-game players today can tell you that the 0 DPS healers they probably ran into tend to not even be that good at healing either. They just overheal all over the place, playing the top-off game. Compared to a healer that knows the damage script, tank busters, and when they can push damage. That's a sign of someone who knows their job and skills they have well. No one was ever asking for lights-out healer DPS numbers, just a good enough effort. Do you really think this player compares to a stand-around 0 DPS healer? Not at all.

Still YoshiP cleverly acknowledges the skill gap with that statement, and also the absolute need of healer DPS in early savage progression which he has always been saying through out HW. That will always be true. Even in Creator you wouldn't even be clearing A11S in the first weeks or month (October/November) without a good amount of healer DPS from both players. Today if you do savage, they get away because of dps carry/echo/gear inflation/etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Well, the thread is about Healer DPSing, not Tank or DPS.
Can start a new thread (probably already existing ones) threads about lazy Tank and/or DPS.

---

That's my point though. There is no thread about lazy DPS or tanks. It's only ever healers that get brought up. Yes there are some threads the healers themselves bring up and cry... but many... many others are brought up and continued to spammed by non healers.

And to answer the other quote (sorry on my phone). Oh I completely agree. Bad and lazy is bad and lazy, regardless of role. My only issue is there's an unfair hate towards only one role for it... and if I had to guess many of those hating on lazy healers are in fact lazy dps.

Not all. Maybe not you. But I've done... many... many dungeons... as every role... and god those DPS are so... so lazy a good 80% of the time. Only cause they can get away with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keramory

Normally hate replying to a 30+ page thread but...

My only issue with healers DPSing topic is that the lazy healers are called out more.

---

I very much advocate for being annoyed if someone is doing basically nothing regardless of their role. Problem is the dps version of "Healers don't have to dps" is "it's my sub don't tell me how to play" and tanks act that way as well.

And to Evergrey, I respond in kind. I'm only playing extremes because it feels like you are. I'm not saying healers need to be performing at peak capacity (God knows df dps don't >.>; ) but any contribution when a heal is nice. ABC is a good rule of thumb no matter the role.

See guys I was right! I was right all along!! Thanks for validating my life choices, Yoshi!

...is a phase I think a lot of the posters are going through right now.

Let us liberate our flash-only tanks and no-support DPS brethren from the eyes of injustice next!

This thread is going nowhere. One side thinks this must happen, the other side thinks that must happen. Just agree to disagree. :eek:

Also to those that are using the term millennials as a insult, please grow up (mentally), thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keramory

That's my point though. There is no thread about lazy DPS or tanks. It's only ever healers that get brought up. Yes there are some threads the healers themselves bring up and cry... but many... many others are brought up and continued to spammed by non healers.

And to answer the other quote (sorry on my phone). Oh I completely agree. Bad and lazy is bad and lazy, regardless of role. My only issue is there's an unfair hate towards only one role for it... and if I had to guess many of those hating on lazy healers are in fact lazy dps.

Not all. Maybe not you. But I've done... many... many dungeons... as every role... and god those DPS are so... so lazy a good 80% of the time. Only cause they can get away with it.

---

Because tanks aren't posting that they don't need to dps.

Because DPS aren't posting that they don't need to dps properly.

Because healers *ARE* posting they don't need to dps.

Do you really not see this?