I had no problem with people and bots in FFXI, soo you guys are all high on something. I bet your linkshell was botting and trying to out BOT your rivial ls whom was botting as well!
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12-08-2011, 03:16 AMRokien
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12-08-2011, 03:18 AMTangoFor the 100th time, this is not a reason to exclude open world content from development. Please go read the thread, then post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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12-08-2011, 03:20 AMCorrderioNot for all, but for the whole "I want OW competiton" which most people are asking for, there's your reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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12-08-2011, 03:23 AMTangoNo, it's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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12-08-2011, 03:25 AMAmsaiWell there are plenty to list but unfortunately Im short on time, However I was mostly refering to what you had originally said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
You cant really refute this one because its my opinion, but I dont want their to be competition in PvE, save it for the PvP. Its not that I mind competition in general, but when Im busy trying to do something, I dont want to be blocked or annoyed by another player or group of players when Im trying to do something. Its fun and challenging enough for the quest/event/NM itself and whatever ridiculous drop rates they have. I dont need to be blocked form my goal by another player for no other reason than, because its not instanced. In short I have a one-track mind. Each thing in its own seperate place/order.Quote:
Because instances don't allow us to compete with other players.
For you I offer one of 3 soloutions:
1. Save it for the PvP Yoshi promised us later, I and others will be glad to kick your ass then.
2. Go play a game that excells at PvP: I hear Lineage 2 went F2P, and GW2 is coming soon as well.
3. SE could make similar items that are achiveable throught multiple means, including through Instances and PvP and OW PvE, and GC content.......... I like this idea best, but dont know if it would be something SE could do, seems like a lot of work to create multiple content for the same gear.
Edit: I take that back their should be competition in PvE but I prefer indirect competition for PvE, Like who has the fastest completion time on a dungeon, who has all achievements, who can defeat Odin, who has the most leet gear. etc etc. -
12-08-2011, 03:25 AMCorrderioAnd how so? If people can bot the living hell out of OW content why have it? Just so the minority can have their fun?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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12-08-2011, 03:29 AMLuciferHah. http://www.wowwiki.com/World_bossQuote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
Stop spewing nonsense already. -
12-08-2011, 03:33 AMLuciferPeople can bot the hell out of instanced content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
You are not making a good argument. Cheating is not the issue here and why you people are clinging to it is incredibly irrational and just makes your argument look stupid.
The content can be there to allow people who enjoy it to partake in it. -
12-08-2011, 03:36 AMCorrderioThis is a fair point, but at the same time why would anyone really bother with a bot for an instanced event? The main reason people botted Fafnir, KB, etc. in XI was so they could get the claim at any cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
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12-08-2011, 03:39 AMTangoCan you please reply to a post, any post, even if you just do /12345678910, without using he words bot or cheat in it? I just want to see if ts possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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12-08-2011, 03:40 AMCorrderioDepends, can you show some actual respect instead of insulting people who don't agree with your view?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Bot -
12-08-2011, 03:40 AMAmsaiWho is making a stupid arguement again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
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12-08-2011, 03:43 AMAmsai
Anyways its not about cheating and botting for me as much as being forced to compete against others for content I want or loot I want. If I want to directly compete I promise Ill kick your ass later in PvP. Okay????
For now, leave me alone I'm F***ing Raiding!!! -
12-08-2011, 03:44 AMLuciferYou are you spoon-fed toddler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsai
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12-08-2011, 03:47 AMFiosha_Maureiba
WiiSam! You gots ta shut the gate! Dooo eeeet!!!
(Didn't think this thread was against open world content, just competitive open-world PvE dungeons). -
12-08-2011, 03:47 AMLucifer>Forced to competeQuote:
Originally Posted by Amsai
Enough of this. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. If the content is there just for those who want it, WHY do you feel "forced" to do something in a game?
I'm done with this. You people are dense and simply want the last word in. -
12-08-2011, 03:49 AMAmsaiLOL ok dude whatever, I like what I like, and all you can do is insult and try to subject me to your OPINION!! Anything either of us have to say is mostly opinion. You wont convert me I promise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
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12-08-2011, 03:52 AMAmsaiIm open to multiple paths to the same gear, would that give us a truce? Instanced and OW, that way you can do it your way and I do it my way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
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12-08-2011, 03:57 AMCoglin
The bot arguement hold no water. Anyone claiming bots cannot be dealt with from the GMs is flat out wrong. I have played several MMOS in which grieving and boting were the rarety because the administration set a track record of slapping out suspensions as wornings and bans to multiple offenders to the point the community really steered away from it well.
Several of you here won't even entertain the idea that enough discussion and pressure on SE to take the route of enforcing rules. That displays your close mindedness.
Your answer is change the game and not care about enforcing the rules.
Thats as logical as telling your government that if enough people are not going to do the right thing by the planet, to just go ahead and dump toxic waste anywhere they want. Thats not an intelligent way to fix a problem, its the lazy one. -
12-08-2011, 04:11 AMAmsai
Well i think most people are speaking from past SE experience. Do you know how mant times I called a GM for RMTs and Botters and nothing got done? Just as nothing is being done now in FFXIV with all the botters and RMTs? Hmmm, its almost like there is a pattern or a history you can follow. I cant speak for other Servers, But FFXI's Garuda Server was plagued by RMTs and Botters and quite heavily for a number of years. There was one group of RMTs that got Fafhog 25 times in a row.......... thats not "fair" open world content. Im just saying. Though as I said before Id be open to multiple paths to similar/same gear. That way people that want to/have time to compete over gear and want to (LOL) trust in SE to swing that ban hammer can live out that delusion. And Ill be happy running instanced dungeons for the same/similar Loot and in what in my opinion is superiorly crafted content. You know Story, Cut scense, comradery, atmosphere, music, and great boss mechanics.
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12-08-2011, 04:17 AMFiosha_Maureiba
Chiming in on the bot bid, that's one more competitor to the content that does not need to be there. A competitor that cannot be reasoned with, never sleeps, and doesn't go away under most circumstances.
If claim systems worked based off of damage dealt, this would be less an issue (as a duo or party, can still compete against that).
Disclaimer: I am not against open-world content. I am for a balance of open-world and instanced content. I am for separation of good loot from quest mobs. Grant a chance for any stronghold enemy to drop a key (key based on their difficulty). -
12-08-2011, 04:18 AMCoglinMy point here is that this is FFXIV nor FFXI , and now is the time to turn the heat up on resoling the issue the correct way. I much prefere that over every ones post replying about how FFXI was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsai
The way I see it. If you do not take a stand and put pressure on the issue to correctly enforce the rules we have, there is no reason for anyone to take you seriously when your option is to limit gameplay choices.
We need to start putting pressure on SE as a community to enforce rules against griefing and botting properly. They need to police the issue, not restrict ame play for it. -
12-08-2011, 04:19 AMRichard_BG
i love that none of the hardcore "against OW content due to botting in XI" have brought up NMs like Ixion and Sandworm that were practically impossible to bot unless you were the luckiest person on the face of the earth. Or like CURRENT XIV OW NMs like Dodore/Uraeus which are a good step towards the right direction.
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12-08-2011, 04:23 AMCorrderioActually there were bots for SW/DI IIRC. Not the typical claim type, but something that would scan the entire zone for targets to see if they popped in that area or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
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12-08-2011, 04:26 AMAmsai
Well I do have to agree with how those 2 NMs were handled Richard, but still my argument is just allow multiple paths, im against Direct PVE competition, save it for PvP.
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12-08-2011, 04:34 AMRichard_BGAnd in XIV there are POS hack bots that take you from the start of DH to Batraal (after clearing) - so we should stop designing instanced content too right? Genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
Well then your opinion is no better than Wiisams - which isn't necessarily a problem when we're discussing opinions but when applied to how content is to be designed for a game it becomes a huge issue. More options to accomodate EVERYONE regardless of who might exploit it is the way to design games. Figuring out how to stop the exploits in your content should be just as important as catering to everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsai
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12-08-2011, 04:37 AMwish12ozBotting SW and DI was actually a much bigger advantage then mobs like fafhogg and behemoth. For DI/SW you used scanner, APradar and clipper. Scanner would scan the zone you were in every other second or so and tell you in LS chat when DI or SW spawned and which zone, then APradar would tell you which direction to run in to get to them immediately when they spawned, and clipper let you run at 800% movement speed so you could get to them and claim them before any none-cheaters even knew they were up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
Any questions?
This is FFXIV, not FFXI, but unfortunately the decade of failure by SE on FFXI's behalf is what taints the view of us who played FFXI. It would be nice if SE did something about the rampant cheating in FFXIV, but they haven't done anything yet, and it's been a year already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
While this isn't really ok, it doesn't make other people unable to go fight Batraal. Which is the problem with OW claim bots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
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12-08-2011, 04:40 AMCorrderioHow the hell do instances have anything to do with what I said? You said it was impossible to bot SW/DI, and I showed you it is more possible than you're letting on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
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12-08-2011, 04:42 AMCoglinME Me me, (raises hand) pick me....I have a question.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
How is it that after all the post to clearify, you still fail to grasp the concept that this is FFXIV?
Again, this is FFXIV not FFXI, and we are attepting to influence the developers to make posotive changes in patterns and systems that favor a variey of options from instances to open world choices.
You appear highly resistant to grasping on to which game this is, and even more resistant to asit in being a posotive influence.
Second question, why do you prefere to be part of the problem in this respect, instead of part of the solution? -
12-08-2011, 04:45 AMTangoPractically impossible does not mean impossible; learn2readQuote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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12-08-2011, 04:47 AMCorrderio
You must be grasping for straws if you're going after typos.
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12-08-2011, 04:49 AMRichard_BGOn a low pop server you might have gotten away with this but I can tell you from years of experience it rarely ever went unnoticed and unpunished. When the general population talks 'botting' they think in terms of Kings and small zones and that is where the huge majority of botting took place in endgame. Both are inexcusable but you are still, like everyone on this thread keeps telling you, missing the point of what a company should be expected to do/should do/will do to prevent cheating in content.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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12-08-2011, 04:53 AMwish12ozIt's the same company running both games, how do you fail to realize this? It doesn't matter that one has a V at the end and one doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
Your propositions will only lead to the same problems that FFXI has/had. This is a new game, lets do new things to combat botting, on a level that actually works, making them not worth using.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
I'm being a positive influence by pointing out what is going to happen. And you are unable to grasp the concept that it's the same company running both games, and with a decade of failure to act under their belt, why should I believe they suddenly start to care?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
The solution is to implement content that bots cannot block none-botters from enjoying. This is what I am advocating, nothing more. Your resistance to this stance is absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
I don't expect them to do anything to combat boting and cheating. They never really have in the last 10 years, why do you think they will?Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
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12-08-2011, 05:02 AMRichard_BGI never said they would enforce anything as of yet and what I expect them to do is not limit their content because of their "track record". New game, semi-new team that is trying their damnedest to make a next-gen mmo for a multi-gamer market. I will give them the benefit of the doubt IF they design content that isn't limited because of cheaters.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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12-08-2011, 05:37 AMCoglinYou use the same crystal ball to see this future that you did to see that CON would be BLM and THM would be WHM ?Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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12-08-2011, 05:40 AMwish12ozAre you implying I said CON would be BLM and THM would be WHM? Because I never said anything like that. My predictions are based on a decade of SE not caring. What exactly are you basing your beliefs of 'everything will be fine' on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
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12-08-2011, 05:45 AMdarkstarpoet1i don't think they do. they named off loads of bots for the game and i am sure they have registration codes for each of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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12-08-2011, 05:57 AMCoglinI stated no beleifs, what I stated is specifically that we should put the pressure on SE to police the issue of bot to the point that serious boting issues do not exist. I suggest that as a starting point ahead of attempting to pressure them to limit content. Feel free to read my post, they are quit specific on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
Your point here is based on conjecture, assumptions, and your lack for whatever reason to solve boting issues of any kind.
I mean your so resistant in this thread to take the side of pressuring them to police boting that it almost appears as if policing boting would adversly effect you. -
12-08-2011, 06:08 AMwish12ozIt's not my duty to solve botting problems, it's SE's. And over the last decade theyve proven unable to do so. If basing my ideas on that is conjecture, assumptions and whatever else, then ya, I agree with you. And it's not that it would adversely affect me, it's that SE has proven themselves unable to do anything about it. So I gave up thinking you can convince SE to do anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
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12-08-2011, 06:19 AMCoglinI have yet to see you on these forums start pushing SE to do anything about it. Hard to give up on something you have not started.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
Interesting though that you think taking a stand against boting is not your duty, when you make limiting content and trying to convince other players they are wrong for desireing said content AS your duty.