Final Fantasy 14 is starting to lose appeal because...

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Originally Posted by Fyce

I never said how you should spend your money, don't put words in my mouth just to make your point.

You are obviously limiting yourself about the stuff you want to do in the game, and then claim that the game doesn't have anything else to offer.
It's not the game's fault if you don't like PvP, crafting, glamour, housing, side activities (such as Triple Triad, Chocobo breeding...), collecting (minions/mounts), gathering, achievements..

Saying that the game has nothing else than eso grind and leveling a combat job to 60 while complaining about its core feature is ignorant at best, dishonest at worst.

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Because people play a final fantasy mmo game to craft/gather/do triple triad/all th shit that you said instead of getting gear and combat.

And yes, leveling is definitely an endgame activity and it requires a Lv60 job to do so. Oh gee I wonder what alt characters are for.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

I picked none? My ninja is my main and it's level 60 and I prefer to stay on it to perfect my rotation and get the top gears for it. Why would I waste time on another class when I'm trying to be the best Ninja?

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Because 14 isn't designed as a one character/one job game and neither was 11. You get to mix and match skills from different job which require playing those jobs to unlock skills. A game that grants your wish are alt based games.

The difference between this and 11,XIV dumbs down content to make sure everyone can participate in everything, while in 11 some jobs are better for different content, which leads to more downtime seeking party for content if your job is subpar for an event.

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Originally Posted by RylaiBluecrow

Because raiding and friends. And what makes you think I'm not playing other games besides this one? What makes you think that you have a say in what I spend 13 bucks on per month just to talk to people I know and raid with them?

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You mock a game that you clearly have no idea what it's based on. It's a theme park MMORPG... Yoshi-P himself has ALWAYS stated so. This was said while ARR was in development and it is still being said now. That means it is designed to cater to as many people as it can. That means that if you focus only on combat endgame, you're not going to have a fulfilling aspect of the game. Socializing is certainly one huge aspect of MMORPGs, but if you're only doing so under the combat content, you're not taking part in a significant chunk of the game. You have full authority over how you spend your time and money, but that does not change the ignorance of what you are complaining about.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You mock a game that you clearly have no idea what it's based on. It's a theme park MMORPG... Yoshi-P himself has ALWAYS stated so. This was said while ARR was in development and it is still being said now. That means it is designed to cater to as many people as it can. That means that if you focus only on combat endgame, you're not going to have a fulfilling aspect of the game. Socializing is certainly one huge aspect of MMORPGs, but if you're only doing so under the combat content, you're not taking part in a significant chunk of the game. You have full authority over how you spend your time and money, but that does not change the ignorance of what you are complaining about.

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So? FFXI was also a Theme Park MMO, too and while it had many aspects to it, its main focus was combat content. Theme Park means that you play the game as the Devs have made it and as they guide you to. Theme Park doesn't necessarily mean to cater to as many people possible. Minecraft is sandbox and look how many people play it. I don't see what FFXIV being a theme park has anything to do with someone only interested in one aspect of the game, which, should be the main focus. I mean if we are all just going to gather, craft, collect minions and glamour might as well have called the game something else than Final Fantasy. Don't you think you are being a little too arrogant to call someone ignorant on a matter that is not related at all.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

So? FFXI was also a Theme Park MMO, too and while it had many aspects to it, its main focus was combat content. Theme Park means that you play the game as the Devs have made it and as they guide you to. Theme Park doesn't necessarily mean to cater to as many people possible. Minecraft is sandbox and look how many people play it. I don't see what FFXIV being a theme park has anything to do with someone only interested in one aspect of the game, which, should be the main focus. I mean if we are all just going to gather, craft, collect minions and glamour might as well have called the game something else than Final Fantasy. Don't you think you are being a little too arrogant to call someone ignorant on a matter that is not related at all.

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Not at all. You said it yourself here, the devs guide you based on what they made the game as. They wanted to make a game that is catering to everyone, and as such, provide massive amounts of content outside of combat. I mean, think about how much content already exists here that does not involve exclusively endgame combat material. The way that the devs have made this game makes my statements a fact, whether you, me, or anyone else enjoys that is another matter lol. The foolish arrogance is truly coming from those that are ignoring the way that content is being developed. The devs choose to release content that does not primarily focus on combat for every single thing a player does. Literally every FF game could be called something else if they chose to. The concepts of Odin, Shiva, etc are not exclusive to the FF franchise... just so you know. The name itself, Final Fantasy, is what makes a game Final Fantasy. In some occasions, the developers or staff attached also allure to the identity (like Uematsu, Sakaguchi, etc).

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Not at all. You said it yourself here...

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Ok then, like I said before. Why call a game without an important focus on combat, an aspect that has been the main focus since Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy, then? It's fine if they wanted a game where glamours, minions, etc etc is more important than combat, but then they have no right to call it Final Fantasy XIV. It could've been a spinoff instead, then. lol From FF1 to FFXIII, the main focus has been combat. Should've called the game Final Fantasy: Vanity Online, or something, instead. You know like the musical series. Even that one is called Theatrhythm first, then Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Ok then, like I said before. Why call a game without an important focus on combat, an aspect that has been the main focus since Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy, then? It's fine if they wanted a game where glamours, minions, etc etc is more important than combat, but then they have no right to call it Final Fantasy XIV. It could've been a spinoff instead, then. lol From FF1 to FFXIII, the main focus has been combat. Should've called the game Final Fantasy: Vanity Online, or something, instead. You know like the musical series. Even that one is called Theatrhythm first, then Final Fantasy.

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You can still call anything Final Fantasy. Think about the bombed FF movie lol. Didn't really have a lot of what we'd consider an icon of FF, but doesn't change the naming convention. When it comes to marketing, like in the case of names, they often choose a different name to preface if they want to establish an identity to signify what type of game it is. Theaterhythm, as per your example, is obviously a rhythm game. When you think FF, at least when it comes to games, you think RPG in some form. It's generally a bad idea to provide a game that is completely void of being an RPG and name it Final Fantasy. Unless of course the game is literally about an existing Final Fantasy game, if they ever choose to. Imagine a pinball machine with FF7/8/etc characters in it... they could easily name it Final Fantasy lol. They can use the different primary title as an excuse to branch out of the FF universe when adding content, which is what they sorta did with Theaterhythm, to be a little more marketable with tracks from Bravely Default and Chrono Trigger. Despite their intent to add a lot of non combat content to XIV, it doesn't remove the fact that it's still an RPG, and thus easily marketable as Final Fantasy. Especially when you consider the MMO aspect, where RP can run free with much greater ease.

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Originally Posted by RylaiBluecrow

But honestly OP, I wouldn't even bother sharing thoughts with people in forum. Too many fanboys would and probably already had swarmed you in this post. Go to pcgamer forum or something like that for rational thoughts and responses.

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So in essence, those who disagree are just fanboys. Dare I ask who made you the authority on what's fun and what isn't?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

So in essence, those who disagree are just fanboys. Dare I ask who made you the authority on what's fun and what isn't?

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There's a lot of that in these types of threads. Anyone that disagrees with critics is a fanboy, anyone that disagrees with defenders is a hateful troll.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

So in essence, those who disagree are just fanboys. Dare I ask who made you the authority on what's fun and what isn't?

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its pretty much a fact now because we now have people who think that telling others to take a break till 3.1 is an answer. When it isn't and should never be. Alexander easy story was a waste of resources its supposed to be a raid not a go in kill the super weak boss which I may add that Alexander floor 4 face roll story we can't even fill a full 3rd bar because it gets close to dying once it fills the 2nd.


Not to mention its the same exact set up as Coil.

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Originally Posted by JudgeN

Why do people pretend FFXIV 1.0 didn't exist? This game is going on 4 years old when you include 1.0 time which everyone should. So in terms of expansion I would consider FFXIV 1.0 (FFXI) -> FF:ARR (FFXI:RoZ) -> Heavensward (FFXI: COP), and ToAU was about to release on FFXI during the end of its 4th year while we doing patchs 3.x in heavenward. We had gotten a massive amount of variety from FFXI in the same period of time while FFXIV just continues to rehash the same formula, my question is at what point can we start to call them out on it?

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FFXIV:ARR 2.0 was only new content to people who already played FFXIV 1.0 all the way through. For everyone else, FFXIV:ARR was the only content available. In light of that, it really isn't fair to call FFXIV:ARR an expansion. It was a reworking of the game similar to what occurred to Star Wars: Galaxies.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Because 14 isn't designed as a one character/one job game and neither was 11. You get to mix and match skills from different job which require playing those jobs to unlock skills. A game that grants your wish are alt based games.

The difference between this and 11,XIV dumbs down content to make sure everyone can participate in everything, while in 11 some jobs are better for different content, which leads to more downtime seeking party for content if your job is subpar for an event.

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Maybe you should check my character profile before you reply. I have every job to 50, ninja to 60, and crafters/gathering above 50. I have all the skills from different jobs that I can use already. You can't take skills from any of the new classes so there's no point to level them unless you actually enjoy playing them. I might give them a try and might even enjoy playing them, but I would probably quit the game because of what's waiting for me endgame. Honestly, if the adventure was fun, I'd take every single class to max like I did in 1.0 or even ARR. However, the adventure is not fun because you are locked into doing Fates or grinding the same boring instances. I preferred the FFXI grind parties because then you at least got to make friends and if somebody screwed up, the party wiped. No challenge in FFXIV while leveling.

I enjoy leveling but not playing much with my already 60 jobs besides weekly Alex runs and Expert, it is repetitive

We need old content to be relevant again, so many dungeons and stuff :3

Lots of FC mates stop playing cuz of this, till next update prolly, other didnt even came back for HW

First off let me make this clear: I love the game and feel is has so much potential. But its a love-hate relationship. There's just lots of little annoying things that add up and make the game feel tedious when it doesn't need to be. For instance:
-Cant use the mount you actually want to use if you have your chocobo out (like, really?)
-Cant queue for dungeon with chocobo out
-Quests have you running around in circles around the map and some are incredibly repetitive. This one annoys me the most. I mean, how many times must we search for moogles? Additionally, in every other game out there the quests are restricted to an apropriate area so you dont have to travel on the opposite end of the map for every.single.quest. I love doing quests in every other game, but the way it is done in FFXIV is sooooooooo tedious. I actually skipped the quests on the last map... and I never skip quests. Ever. -_-;

The content in FFXIV is also not very varied. With each patch, you get very similar content. New tombstones, new dungeons, new gear to go along with it. Its always the same.

The classes are also far too similar to each other. One DRG is the same as the other DRG. You cant be a unique flower if you wanted to. No talents to choose, no customizing your class to fit your play-style, and the skills are pretty similar to other melee classes as well. Yeah, you get to choose up to 5 additional actions from other classes you've leveled... but honestly that isn't a real choice because the 5 you choose are the only ones that are relevant to your class anyway.

What I would love to see:
-Materia becoming meaningful: in addition to stat increases, it would be nice if they also enhanced certain skills, or added new skills and passive abilities for your character to use. Would be nice if you could also "level" up the materia to increase its effectiveness.
-Less tedious questing: Stop with having every single quest take you halfway across the map, then back to the quest giver, then back halfway across the map, then back to NPC again. There's a lot of ways to make quests take a lot of time to complete AND be fun at the same time, but that isn't one.
-Add more UNIQUE skills. Differentiate melee classes from each other more (casters seem okay to me right now). The melee class skills seem a bit too similar to me. Make classes stand out more from each other and enable customization. Perhaps this customization could come in the form of extra skills or passive abilities from materias or something. Or maybe they could add talent specs like other games out there do. For example, I have ideas for a couple classes to make their skills more unique from the other melee classes:
----DRG ideas: Skills can pierce multiple enemies and ability to jump from one enemy to the other, sort of like a chain lightning thing. Really wish they would add the wyvern and it's wyvern breath mechanic :*(
----NIN: revolve around shadow clones / teleport. Can make duplicates of themselves to attack the enemy. These duplicates can be attacked by mobs and can be used as decoys. Their ability to "teleport" should be on a very short cooldown and they should be able to quickly teleport from one enemy to another. The idea is that they should move like the wind: now you see 'em, now you don't.
-Fix tab targeting: This is a minor one but its a bit annoying to have to position your camera just right just so you can tab to the nearest enemy.
-More non-raid content: This is the biggest one for me. Gold saucer was a nice addition. I would love to see more content not involving raiding that adds fun things to do.
-More chocobo content: Let us queue dungeons with chocobo out. Also, I don't see why we cant use another mount if our chocobo is out. Just have it disappear while we are mounted and re-appear when off the mount. Right now it makes having all my super cool looking mounts useless because you cant use them with the chocobo out. I would also like to see more fun content for the chocobo such as chocobo quests and chocobo duels (come on you know you wanna). Perhaps even a pet bar so we can control the chocobo a bit better.
-Set gear bonuses: Give unique passive abilities, procs, skills etc.
-Player housing: Right now only the rich can afford a house, and have access to gardening. This would be fine if us poor folks had an alternative...but we don't. Why cant we have something similar to ffxi's moogle house where you could put down furniture to store items, grow your own plants, etc. Just add all these options to the inn or something :<

I've been thinking about this topic for the last few days.

I say we can roughly divide players into two categories:
- Progressives want new battle content to beat, new gear to work toward, and new storyline content to view
- Creatives need more sandbox content, like glamours and housing. Creatives also include RPers and people who make music videos and such

The two categories have some overlap for sure, but it's the progression players who get burnt out first and say "XIV is losing appeal to me." While the creative types are just rolling along, making the content their own, and not feeling nearly as bored with the content since they're doing other things with it.

There are casuals and hardcores in both categories, of course. But the creative types seem to fill the gaps in between patches a lot better.

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Originally Posted by SetsuneMystbane

First off..

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Wow... coming from the biggest Final Fantasy 14 fan ever... lmfao

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Originally Posted by Anera

I lot of peoples would say "it ain't broke, don't fix it" but eventually everyone will see this game is repetitive same thing over and over. 3.0 expansion pack bring nothing NEW.
but that's just my opinion

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I wrote this on other thread

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Originally Posted by Dererk

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That's fair though. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I only called out that particular post I quoted due to its generalization those who aren't bored with the existing content. Admittedly, I am not far enough along yet to have completed even half of things, but I don't believe it's quite so black and white.

Catwho likely has a good assessment of the overall breakdown. I, for one, definitely feel they should rework cross skills to be more customizable and useful. That way you have less mandatory skills everyone takes. Still, like I said earlier. I feel now that HS is out of the way, Yoshi will start focusing more towards harder and more versatile endgame content. They've established a larger enough audience not to have to worry.

PS: curse character limits on this forum :mad:

It really does feel that you don't belong in Eorzea somehow. Due to this whole instance feeling within DF thats all you seem to do. Its unpersonal compared to FFXI where I have to admit you where part of the world your character became personal due to the massive different gears you could use and how you went with your skills on the jobs. Each person could havedifferent stats and play their job differently compared to the new one.
World maps are still empty regardless of fates gathering and hunts there is not much to do. I don't think Yoshi P is doing this intentionally someone is giving SE some sort of survey that this is what the market wants and they are following the current "hypetrain" of MMORPG. That is good and bad. Good way its easy money bad way it lacks originally you are doing what everyone else is doing and instead of shaping a player you went with what current players want thats already in other RPGs.
So as a business man Yoshi P is a genius! Unless a mass amount of players are actually displeased and cancel their subs or something I doubt anything drastic will happen. No matter how all of us complain and rant here over 500k subs are still playing the game :)

I too have stopped playing for a week now. Grinding the same 2 dungeons to get law before then now eso is not fun at all. It is sad to think this tome pattern which started since 2.0 will remain unchanged in 3.x. For those who do not do Savage, there is no point in getting eso gears, which will be matched/replaced by new gears in 3.1. There is simply no motivation at all.

I'm somewhat confused as to why people that are burnt out on expert roulette continue to grind it for esoterics when it's far from the only way to get them.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I'm somewhat confused as to why people that are burnt out on expert roulette continue to grind it for esoterics when it's far from the only way to get them.

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It's not like the PVP scene is jumping on this game. The only other avenues are Alexander, and rarely from treasure maps, and S rank hunts. None of the alternatives are really as rewarding as the unfortunate standard.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I'm somewhat confused as to why people that are burnt out on expert roulette continue to grind it for esoterics when it's far from the only way to get them.

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When Seal Rock was added to the game i have done maybe one or two roulettes since then and even those were pre-mades, besides i do alot of pvp anyway when not crafting/gathering or raiding so usually i dont even notice that i have capped eso's. Not to mention its superfast way thanks to insta FL ques and you only need to do 23 matches to get those capped for the week.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's not like the PVP scene is jumping on this game. The only other avenues are Alexander, and rarely from treasure maps, and S rank hunts. None of the alternatives are really as rewarding as the unfortunate standard.

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I'm pretty sure S ranks don't drop esoterics yet(for god knows why). Laws, sure.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's not like the PVP scene is jumping on this game. The only other avenues are Alexander, and rarely from treasure maps, and S rank hunts. None of the alternatives are really as rewarding as the unfortunate standard.

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It's not, but even so I don't have PvP queues over ~10 minutes unless I'm doing it during weird hours(late night/early morning). I hate to use anecdotal evidence, but we're in the same data center.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's not like the PVP scene is jumping on this game. The only other avenues are Alexander, and rarely from treasure maps, and S rank hunts. None of the alternatives are really as rewarding as the unfortunate standard.

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umm... Capping eso in PvP is one of the fastest ways to do it. Also, depending on your gc, it might be the absolute fastest way to cap.

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Originally Posted by zosia

umm... Capping eso in PvP is one of the fastest ways to do it. Also, depending on your gc, it might be the absolute fastest way to cap.

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Why when you can just do one daily expert everyday and cap it that way? It takes less than 25 minutes per day to do a daily expert.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Why when you can just do one daily expert everyday and cap it that way? It takes less than 25 minutes per day to do a daily expert.

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It's 10 mins for 40 eso in Frontlines roulette. You can get 115/day between Expert/Frontlines which is less than 40 minutes total, and then have all eso capped in 4 days.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

It's 10 mins for 40 eso in Frontlines roulette. You can get 115/day between Expert/Frontlines which is less than 40 minutes total

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Not with those 30+ min queues, nope.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Not with those 30+ min queues, nope.

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What is 30+ min queue?

PvP? Might be GC related. Longest queue I've had is about 6 minutes.
Dungeon/DPS? Might be time related. Longest DPS queue for expert I get is like 12 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

What is 30+ min queue?

PvP? Might be GC related. Longest queue I've had is about 6 minutes.
Dungeon/DPS? Might be time related. Longest DPS queue for expert I get is like 12 minutes.

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Yeah, PVP. Yeah, GC. I don't think it's very appropiate having to switch to another GC just for PvP, people chose their current GCs for a reason. Personally, it was for the lore. :)

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Yeah, PVP. Yeah, GC. I don't think it's very appropiate having to switch to another GC just for PvP, people chose their current GCs for a reason. Personally, it was for the lore. :)

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For sure, I didn't realize the queue times varied so much. That sucks :( Which are you in? Twin Adder here.

Just a post I feel need to make about the people who claim that we should be "thankful" to be get so much content every 3.5-4 months, and that's it's better than Warlords of Draenor. I haven't seen anyone bring this up too recently in this thread but I've seen it on Reddit and other threads here and there and wanted to cover it regardless.

Yes, we have more content than WoD, but WoD is known to be the most lacking expansion in the history of World of Warcraft. There's nothing special about beating WoD, and that does not mean we should be thankful. Let's compare Heavensward + future patch content (assuming they follow the same pattern) to WoW's prime which would be Wrath for most. We currently have 8 dungeons, and will receive 10 more through patches which puts us at 18 and in comparison to Lich King it's more content, as that only had 16. I do consider WoW'd dungeons to be of a higher quality than Neverreap and Fractal (but The Vault is amazing) but let's leave opinion out of this.

The meat of the game, the endgame, the place most strive to do, is where FFXIV is sorely lacking. Let's compare raids, we'll get 3 hardcore/normal raids, and 3 easy ones. I'll consider Onyxia's Lair, The Eye of Eternity, The Ruby Sanctum and The Obsidian Sanctum as trials for later on. Wrath had 5 raids, all of which were progression raids and add up to a total 48 encounters. Compare that to FFXIV, which is a total of 12 encounters (I'm using encounters instead of bosses for fights like Alexander 2) over the course of an entire expansion, even if you were to add in the 24 man raids that's another 12 which is still only 24 encounters, half of WoW.

We get primals which are pretty much wasted development time since the devs are so keen on invalidating their gear so quickly after release (Bismarck Extreme didn't even have a chance to live for more than a week). The same can be said for Alexander normal mode, I had what, 2 or 3 pieces before the content was deemed outdated by the developers? 2 weeks is how long they waited to introduce Esoterics, when it takes 5 to even gear up in Alexander gear. Why? You have to problem of invalidating old content from 2.x that players from FFXI are so focused on, but when the next major patch isn't even out you throw away what little endgame content you have? Why couldn't they have put a weekly system on on Bismarck and Ravana tokens and make the weapons on par with i200 esoterics? I sure as hell know what requires more effort, and RavEX requires that you know how to play your class to an extent, and yet gear you get from doing dungeons is better where another DPS is always doing sub 300 DPS. That makes absolutely no sense to me. You have a system in place for horizontal progression in the same patch, you can move vertically with Savage or the next major patch, but if it's from the same patch why do you insist on making content outdated before we get to experience them and forcing us back into 2 dungeons again and again?

I can't understand a lot of the choices they've made, there's plenty of opportunities for vertical progression with items potentially having unique effects, but they throw it all away for the sake of the gear treadmill, how I wish that was never a thing in MMOs. All in all, they're lacking raids and endgame dungeons, they shouldn't be proud of besting the worst expansion in a game's history, they should be striving to top its best and then some. You have less budget to develop your content due to far less subscription numbers, but utilize what's available to you. Don't develop content only to throw it away. You're the company behind FFXI, I'd think you'd know how to successfully run a long lasting game with varied content rather than a repeated cycle for years to come. Heavensward should have been the TBC to WoW, it should have been the Wrath to TBC, but it was the Vanilla WoW to Vanilla WoW, the ARR to ARR so to speak.

/rant

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Not with those 30+ min queues, nope.

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switch GCs

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

For sure, I didn't realize the queue times varied so much. That sucks :( Which are you in? Twin Adder here.

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As flames, our queues can be over an hour

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Originally Posted by zosia

switch GCs

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No. I'm loyal to my GC until dead do us part! (Funny, your lodestone avatar completely changed from catgirl to au ra right as soon as I posted this)

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

For sure, I didn't realize the queue times varied so much. That sucks :( Which are you in? Twin Adder here.

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Maelstrom. Dunno which one is worse if flames or mael. lol

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

As flames, our queues can be over an hour

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Ouch.

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Originally Posted by zosia

switch GCs

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Did you not bother to read the rest of her comment where she SPECIFICALLY said, "I don't think it's very appropriate having to switch to another GC just for PvP, people chose their current GCs for a reason?"

No one should have to switch GCs losing all of the hard work and time they put in ranking up only to have to start from scratch because of the stupid system SE gave us.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Just a post I feel need to make about the people who claim that we should be "thankful" to be get so much content every 3.5-4 months, and that's it's better than Warlords of Draenor. I haven't seen anyone bring this up too recently in this thread but I've seen it on Reddit and other threads here and there and wanted to cover it regardless.

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Yet. 12 months of ICC (not counting Ruby Sanctum) before Cataclysm was released. No new content in that time.

9 months of Dragon Soul with no new content added to the game till next expac.

14 months of Siege of Orgrimmar with no new content added to the game till next expac.

They never had a sense of pacing content.

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Wrath had 5 raids, all of which were progression raids and add up to a total 48 encounters. Compare that to FFXIV, which is a total of 12 encounters (I'm using encounters instead of bosses for fights like Alexander 2) over the course of an entire expansion, even if you were to add in the 24 man raids that's another 12 which is still only 24 encounters, half of WoW.

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54 encounters. BUT. Can you honestly count Naxxramas which was a direct port from Vanilla with tweaked numbers? So it's more like 35 encounters original to Wrath.

Warlords of Draenor was really really fun at first, but that quickly got boring. My favorite "expansion" will forever be vanilla wow. I'll admit I was super hyped up about garrison and I was obsessed with it at first, but once you got all your followers to max and started getting mythic gear from them it just became meh. I love how much stuff there is to do in WoW aside from raiding. Lots of different toys, mounts and pets that you can get in all sorts of different manner... even silly achievements like falling from a really high location and surviving! This is what I sincerely wish SE would do with FFXIV. In WoW I spend a lot of time just doing stuff for achievements, because its FUN. The quests there are awesome and very well put together. You can see others progressing with their quests in the world as well (like when we finally unlocked the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj and the entire server saw the whole scene play out... pretty epic), and it really feels like you are part of Azeroth. None of this instanced quest nonsense where you feel so alone. With that said, IMO FFXIV raid bosses feel so much more fleshed out to me than WoW raid bosses. Yeah, there's a lot more bosses in WoW but they're not as mechanically complex and engaging as FFXIV raid bosses. This can be a turn off for some, but I really love this complexity and its currently the one thing left that keeps me subscribed even though I haven't gotten a chance to do any Alexander Savage raids yet. You can't really get carried in FFXIV as much as you can get carried in WoW. Only a couple people in WoW need know mechanics and the rest of the raid can just go along with the flow. It would be really nice if SE add more bosses but if they do this, I hope they don't dumb down mechanics to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Rakeesh

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I'm referring specifically to end-game progression in my post, I thought I made that clear but I guess it wasn't clear enough. 12 months of ICC in comparison to almost 8 months of Final Coil isn't too different, especially when you consider ICC has 13 encounters in comparison to Final's 4 encounters. ICC has 2 difficulties, with each difficulty having a 10 man mode and a 25 man mode, in comparison SE never delivered a second difficulty, be it a story mode or savage for Final Coil and only 8 man too. I do agree that Blizzard doesn't know how to pace out their content, they release too much from the get go and then end up lacking it towards the end of the expansion. But alrighty, 35 encounters that are for progression in comparison to FFXIV's 19 if you add extreme primals too.

The same can be said for SE too though, they release a lot at the start, and then almost immediately replace the gear with further content, and then from patch 2.1+ the content suffers. They waste an entire patches end-game sources on a "catch-up/glamour" raid. I don't follow that logic, why release a raid if its loot is out of date before it's out? That leaves people who want to progress their character with nothing but hunts (for 2.x anyway) which has to be the worst content in this entire game, and for the hardcore absolutely nothing until 3.2, and then 3.4. That's if we get a 3.4, or even a 3.3. Yoshida did say he wanted a yearly expansion release (3 cheers for less content than WoD if that were to happen!). At the end of WoW's final patch and the months of nothing before the expansion you could unsubscribe after you got whatever loot you wanted, or if you just downed the raid a few times. This is unlike FFXIV, they hold you "hostage" (not literally, so don't bother picking at that sentence like I've seen others do) so if you were to unsubscribe when they introduced Esoterics and came back at 3.1 you'd be behind in terms of gear. I really dislike the capped tomestone system, it's nothing but artificially extending the content's life over a few months which they've even forced on crafters too it seems.

Beast tribe is just faction dailies from WoW, people there hated them, I'm honestly surprised people are using that as a retort for when people ask for what 3.1 is going to bring to the table. I am looking forward to airship exploration a lot though. All in all I still enjoy the game, but I feel they need to better allocate their resources. Chocobo racing for example, that was a bit hit for 1-2 months and now barely anyone does it or speak of it. Triple Triad was a great addition to the game, but even they lock cards behind unfair rules against NPCs, I'm looking forward to relics because they'll keep me busy and won't be locked behind some annoying weekly cap, but even that's probably just going to have you doing old content until your brain melts.