Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

If I get an early proc I check to see how badly my clipping is, then I use this rotation:

Fire 3 > Fire 4 > Thundercloud > Fire 1 > Fire 4 > Fire 4 > Fire 4 > Blizzard 3

Is that a good move? Also, is there a particular number at which clipping is a dos gain over Fire 4?

You shouldn't usually get a tick that won't make it until after F1 on average. Assuming you used any procs you currently had during UI phase, that's 2.5s > 3s > 3s > 2.5s after you'd reapply Thunder in UI, which is 12s before talking about SS/Selene/Leylines (and virtually never getting a proc immediately after applying T1/TC anyway).

So you're saying you prefer F3 > F4 x 2 > F1 > TC > F4x 2 > B3? I feel like that's less safe than the alternative but maybe just because I've been unlucky before.

Is there anyone who was intending to do more in-depth stat weight research. We all know Puro is MIA, but has anyone else decided to give it a go?

Cleared A2 Savage on BLM. First night I tried SMN, and it was fine but it felt like double SMN was a bit excessive since adds were dying REALLY fast, plus we still beat enrage with around 40 seconds to spare. I have to say it's pretty fun on BLM, and I'll be playing it each week from now on. Not giving up that easily!

If I was the only caster, then I'd probably play SMN just to make it easier on everyone else but I think BLM/SMN might be a better combo than SMN/SMN for the extra burst.

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Originally Posted by raisetheglass1

Can you help me interpret this information? Are you saying that ACT fails to properly account for T3 proc damage?

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What I'm saying is that ACT assumes Thunder, regardless of level used, always has six ticks and will only parse six ticks worth of damage. That is true for T1, but T2 has seven and T3 has eight. You're losing damage on your parses every time your TC goes on for longer than 18 seconds. With perfect Thunder uptime, you'd lose 5 ticks per minute, or 200 potency worth of damage in ACT parse against single target -- a loss of around 25-30 DPS if you were parsing 1300.

I don't know how people get off multiple fire4's without having ley lines up, cause it seems like astral fire runs out right after that.

should be able to get 2 per fire or 3 fire 4s if you have a firestarter

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Originally Posted by Noob_Sauce

I don't know how people get off multiple fire4's without having ley lines up, cause it seems like astral fire runs out right after that.

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Yep, I agree. Not sure how its done. Especially in Neverreap and continuum dungeons. The more I run those dungeons on my BLM, the more I get pissed off and want to change to another class like my SMN or Monk. Never have I had a mechanic with a class that was so frustrating as Enochian is.

Then change classes. If you don't like it its cool. But standard rotation is fire 4x2 fire (should have about 4 seconds on Af) Fire 4 x2 blizz 3 (again like 4 seconds AF) if sharp cast is up lead fire then fire 4x3 FS fire 4 blizz. That's really all there is to it. No ley lines required. SMN is there for those that like playing the aoe caster, it will likely develop the same problems blms had as well (melee scaling to the point it gimps caster aoe cause melees just kill the adds faster as their gear goes up, causing the aoe caster to sort of negatively scale.)

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Originally Posted by Noob_Sauce

I don't know how people get off multiple fire4's without having ley lines up, cause it seems like astral fire runs out right after that.

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BLM rotation is extremely dependent on latency. Basically, if your computer is a toaster, you do poorly on BLM. If you connection is a toaster you do poorly. If both are toasters, you do extremely poorly.

Well, as of next week it's poop or get off the pot for us casters with the weapon purchase. Anyone in here taking the switch to SMN? I'm 90% likely taking the leap to SMN for now, unfortunately I've caught the SMN bug, nothing personal against level 60 BLM I just feel like SMN's more consistent for the same reward and I gotta admit I think it's flat better for A3S (gonna catch flak for this opinion!), but I'm gonna imagine most of you guys are sticking it out. If so, more power to you guys.

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Originally Posted by Lavitz_

Cleared A2 Savage on BLM. First night I tried SMN, and it was fine but it felt like double SMN was a bit excessive since adds were dying REALLY fast, plus we still beat enrage with around 40 seconds to spare. I have to say it's pretty fun on BLM, and I'll be playing it each week from now on. Not giving up that easily!

If I was the only caster, then I'd probably play SMN just to make it easier on everyone else but I think BLM/SMN might be a better combo than SMN/SMN for the extra burst.

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Day 1 my group tried SMN SMN (BRD/MCH went SMN) as we were experimenting and I can see where you're coming from, though I think SMN/SMN would still be unbeatable due to the 5 stack Bane. Not much point to large single target burst in A2S IMO, the most you can say about burst is it's nice on the Hardmind/Hardhats/kamikaze Soldiers but with the existence of stuns it's a semi-moot point since as long as you're killing them in time you're gonna have more success with the classes doing more AoE.

I'm not going SMN for A3S. I pull 1050-1100 dps at 10mins+

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'm not going SMN for A3S. I pull 1050-1100 dps at 10mins+

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Yeah, SMN does about the same. Stick with w/e you like though, both are perfectly viable. People didn't believe me when I said it was better/equal for A3S but I guess all it took was for one group to clear it with a SMN to change their minds :C

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Yeah, SMN does about the same. Stick with w/e you like though, both are perfectly viable. People didn't believe me when I said it was better/equal for A3S but I guess all it took was for one group to clear it with a SMN to change their minds :C

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It's all about convenience. Those adds that you bane, painflare and deathflare the new set of adds. This means you do nothing about the old ones and it stress your group further. It is also easier to achieve those numbers on SMN but BLM wins just because Apoc buffs 20% of those 20k+ cleaves. This allows your heals to DPS more. There has to be a reason why a group with BLM cleared A3S 2 days before a group with SMN ;) I jsut simply goes what's the best for the group and BLM is best for this imho.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

It's all about convenience. Those adds that you bane, painflare and deathflare the new set of adds. This means you do nothing about the old ones and it stress your group further. It is also easier to achieve those numbers on SMN but BLM wins just because Apoc buffs 20% of those 20k+ cleaves. This allows your heals to DPS more. There has to be a reason why a group with BLM cleared A3S 2 days before a group with SMN ;) I jsut simply goes what's the best for the group and BLM is best for this imho.

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Which 20k cleaves are you talking about? You mean the tethers? If so, Apoc's definitely nice there, and so is Manaward in final phase, can't argue with that.

I'd argue SMN makes add phase less stressful IMO, Miasma spam basically doubles your time to kill any add you hit, and a SCH cannot hit every single one even if he were to fulltime DPS. I don't notice it being harder with SMN the last few nights even though I know I'm doing less in that particular, timed phase comparatively to when I BLM.

One big thing I like is you can Virus every Cascade with SMN + SCH. With SCH alone it's every other, unfortunately. Also LB3ing the hand is a complete bitch on BLM, SMN barely loses anything from it, something most welcome.

Perhaps this turn really does boil down to preference/convenience, but I'm not sold that SMN won't consistently do more pre and post add phase compared to BLM, which is where the money is once you've got the final phase mechanics down (my group's still practicing final phase's loop so I cannot give you 10m runs to compare yet, soon I hope!). Just curious, what do you consistently get as BLM immediately pre-add phase? Also, comp?

I'll be sticking to my guns with blm, I find it funner than smn as I'm a sucker for the bigger numbers. What makes it even easier for me to decide this was I never really liked blms identity as an aoe mage anyway, and they changed it over to smn. SMN is still an option after a couple of months obviously, or a lucky drop from A4, whichever comes first. I like both, I just favor blm.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

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My Scholar uses that 180 crafted chest with 51 accuracy melds. We never had issues on that.

My group saw the enrage rawr.

My best attempts on BLM, I get 1350+ after twin hands and 1150+ after tornado add phase. You can argue that BLM lose more damage then SMN using LB. My timing is perfect, I always have Enochian and Sharpcast ready when I LB. I even Swift B1 to slow the add before the LB. I have War, Pld, Sch, Whm, Brd, Nin, Mnk, Blm. I can also say with ease in a perfect run I should be able to pull 1.1k+

It seems Dragoon is more suitable that Ninja for this, our Ninja is constantly TP starved and I don't get the number of Foes I should get.

One thing for sure I can say is it's harder to get those numbers as BLM than SMN but I don't lose any cast so ;3 My point is simple on this. It's a complete lie to say SMN is superior to BLM in Alexander Savage. It is as easy to proof as to say World first had a BLM in their comp. BLM do perfectly fine and the only turn where SMN actually do better is because how stupid SE was about AoE for A2S.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

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Yes, turns out you were right :) I just tried going A3S with BLM yesterday and found that with BLM, we never needed to save CDS and LB during hand of pain. And Apoc is extremely helpful for tethers.

I have two things I wanna confirm though..

1- Does Lethargy work on adds ?

2- If you Flare the tornado during add phase, will it hit the adds upon spawn ?

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Yes, turns out you were right ^^ I just tried going A3S with BLM yesterday and found that with BLM, we never needed to save CDS and LB during hand of pain. And Apoc is extremely helpful for tethers.

I have two things I wanna confirm though..

1- Does Lethargy work on adds ?

2- If you Flare the tornado during add phase, will it hit the adds upon spawn ?

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Lethargy works on add yes.

Yes, Flare has the exact same range as Deathflare.

You really shouldn't have to save group CDs or LB with SMN or BLM, they're both capable in our gear level of providing the DPS needed to skip CDs/LB.

You basically get one full rotation on BLM without any CDs which is F4 X 4, F1, Firestarter, Flare. That's about 30k with a crit or two in there, a bit more if you get a TC during the rotation. SMN, if you save Rouse and Spur only from the 2m mark, you will do more than that, and a bigger chunk of it will hit the other hand too. I do DWT > FesterX2 + Painflare + 3D + R3 spam + Deathflare, plus Aerial Slash + Rouse + Spur + Enkindle (saved for here because you hit two targets so unless you really want to use it in add phase on a tornado it doesn't matter if you use it here or at start), it totals about 30-35k before crits and before AoE.

I usually flare the adds but I wonder if freeze also binds them?

If no one knows ill test it on Monday.

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

I usually flare the adds but I wonder if freeze also binds them?

If no one knows ill test it on Monday.

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You cannot Bind them in any way, no.

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Originally Posted by Noob_Sauce

I don't know how people get off multiple fire4's without having ley lines up, cause it seems like astral fire runs out right after that.

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You do not wait til Fire IV is finished before casting it again. You "queue" the spell just before the cast bar completes. And what Aikaal said.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

You cannot Bind them in any way, no.

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Wow freeze...good going.

Thanks anyway Sleigh

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

+ Rouse + Spur + Enkindle (saved for here because you hit two targets so unless you really want to use it in add phase on a tornado it doesn't matter if you use it here or at start), it totals about 30-35k before crits and before AoE.

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Ah woops, never really saved Enkindle for that part but I guess it makes sense.(My thought process was that using an Enkindle in the opener + using another one in the adds phase potentially hitting 3 mobs at the same time will yield more DPS).

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Ah woops, never really saved Enkindle for that part but I guess it makes sense.(My thought process was that using an Enkindle in the opener + using another one in the adds phase potentially hitting 3 mobs at the same time will yield more DPS).

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It would definitely yield more total DPS on a parser, but if you can get through the timed phase without it consistently then it makes no difference. You get it back shortly after add phase either way.

If I had a BRD I would probably just blow it at the start.

Also. We do not use LB during the the tornado add phase. We clear it raw damage and use caster LB3 later.

On another note, here's my 4 minutes single target on dummy; 4 Minutes dummy parse

Please take note that extra 3 seconds happened because I had a thunder DoT left, I was at 1300 DPS. This is no party, Draconian Potion + Creme Brulee.

This is the gear I was using; http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/R5LB

I got blessed with loots but it's pretty unoptimized. I don't cap my food stats and my spell speed is very low. I don't think you can see a SMN dull those numbers week 2 of Alexander Savage with that gear. 1300 Single Target DPS is melee single target DPS. I also do not Lethargy adds, I could to help but it's not needed. That's how much DPS we have to clear the adds and I'll be honest, if you need Miasma II and Miasma from SMN to slow adds, you probably don't have the DPS to clear this fight to begin with.

I'm curious how Summoner pulls on a dummy actually to see the difference. Summoner is definitely easier to play in A3S I completely agree on that however :p

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

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We will worry about enrage once we hit enrage. Right now we are still progressing so people aren't really optimizing DPS as much as they could. I doubt my group will have any issues with enrage given our A1S/A2S clear times tbh but that doesn't mean I can just slack off. Lethargy + Blizz 1 definitely helps on adds phase until people get more comfortable with that phase is the point I was trying to make.

Haven't really done dummy parses since I was i182 but I will check later tonight.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Also. We do not use LB during the the tornado add phase. We clear it raw damage and use caster LB3 later.

On another note, here's my 4 minutes single target on dummy; 4 Minutes dummy parse

Please take note that extra 3 seconds happened because I had a thunder DoT left, I was at 1300 DPS. This is no party, Draconian Potion + Creme Brulee.

This is the gear I was using; http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/R5LB

I got blessed with loots but it's pretty unoptimized. I don't cap my food stats and my spell speed is very low. I don't think you can see a SMN dull those numbers week 2 of Alexander Savage with that gear. 1300 Single Target DPS is melee single target DPS. I also do not Lethargy adds, I could to help but it's not needed. That's how much DPS we have to clear the adds and I'll be honest, if you need Miasma II and Miasma from SMN to slow adds, you probably don't have the DPS to clear this fight to begin with.

I'm curious how Summoner pulls on a dummy actually to see the difference. Summoner is definitely easier to play in A3S I completely agree on that however :p

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Yes, if you have to LB during tornado phase you probably can't clear. The DPS check is pretty tame TBH.

I am unsure if the SMN to slow adds = can't clear is a speculation on why I go SMN (if so, :( ) or if it's a musing on SMN vs BLM, but all I can say is BLM is definitely better in add phase, just that SMN can bring something to the table too. It's a timed phase, as long as you can get through it consistently you're golden.

For dummies ... I'm i191, I get about 1170~ on SMN with Garuda without blessed crits (maybe I have room to improve, IDK), I get about 1300 on BLM. The difference is definitely noticeable and will grow as BLM gets SS/CHR more than SMN will I reckon.

That said, the ability of SMN to match the superior dummy DPS of BLM in A3, and A1-2 I feel, is due to multi-DoTs and AoEs that are more or less free damage without jeopardizing CDs/enrage/ST damage. If you are doing 1350 in pre-tornado phase with BLM, I feel SMN may in fact be better - I do about 1250, no BRD/NIN, and it's quite as able to do damage on the Pain check. In final phase, the power of SMN is largely in the LB portion - LB basically costs SMN about 6 Ruins, which is about 3k damage. Everything else is ticking, and not only that, the multi-DoT on the hand cancels out the Ruin loss. BLM on the other hand loses raw F4 cast opportunity, Enochian be damned, and will lose 20k+ damage. That adds up when you do that twice. Same with magnets to a far, far less degree.

I think, when the fight finally gets on farm within a couple weeks by the community as a whole, we're gonna see a situation where the highest parses are on BLM due to add phase, but the fastest clears are gonna be with SMN because it will do more on Living Liquid and Living Limb combined than BLM does. That's of course just speculation for now, just what I predict.

they honestly need to do something about that lb thing, its the only thing that really bothers me is that lb advantage.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

they honestly need to do something about that lb thing, its the only thing that really bothers me is that lb advantage.

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Have your MCH/BRD LB. Oh wait...

Honestly it makes no friggin sense that MCH/BRD's lb does less damage than caster's in my opinion...

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Originally Posted by Xisin

they honestly need to do something about that lb thing, its the only thing that really bothers me is that lb advantage.

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That'd require a really heavy shift of BLM play. It works for SMN because their damage is largely tied to DoTs, pets, and CDs - missing filler isn't a big deal. BLM, you have to ABC, there's no workaround, and honestly no class gets off as easy as SMN does.

They kind of did produce a questionable workaround though ... I believe having BRD/MCH LB3 is better than a BLM LB3, within reason, even though you lose a couple thousand damage difference. Especially if it's timed so it's just BRD/MCH's filler, without significant CDs up. Easier said than done for BRD, though.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Also. We do not use LB during the the tornado add phase. We clear it raw damage and use caster LB3 later.

On another note, here's my 4 minutes single target on dummy; 4 Minutes dummy parse

Please take note that extra 3 seconds happened because I had a thunder DoT left, I was at 1300 DPS. This is no party, Draconian Potion + Creme Brulee.

This is the gear I was using; http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/R5LB

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Here's my 4 min for what it's worth. Not 1300 but think the best I can do with current gear. I use Food: Sohm Al Tart HQ and x-pot int HQ
Parse: http://i.imgur.com/0m6BltJ.png?1
Gear: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/R5N9

I used Draconian and Creme Brulee so there's a difference here. I also probably got more gear than you. I have 3 210 pieces rawr.

Any reason why everyone is going for 4 minutes now? Wouldn't 3 or 6 be better for BLMs since it lets you stop when Raging and Ley Lines come off cooldown? It doesn't make sense to me, unless it's just to be more comparable to physical DPS who run out of TP around 4 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Lavitz_

Any reason why everyone is going for 4 minutes now? Wouldn't 3 or 6 be better for BLMs since it lets you stop when Raging and Ley Lines come off cooldown? It doesn't make sense to me, unless it's just to be more comparable to physical DPS who run out of TP around 4 minutes.

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Well, for BLM it's smoother to wait a bit longer than 3m because it's best to have a full, fresh Enochian rotation for RS + Convert + Leylines (maybe you can do that if you Enochian rotation 3 of first minute? IDK, never tried).

IDK, definitely don't want 3m sharp, you would literally get one RS and be at the low-point of your DPS. Same for a lot of classes with big CDs at the 90s mark. 6m would be very unrealistic, most TP users can't even make it to 4m without going out of TP so it wouldn't serve much purpose. I think around 4m is just that happy medium.

I don't plan to do any 8 heavy man content yet since I just hit 60 on my BLM, but would the damage be decent enough for expert runs to F4 then F1 to keep AF3 up instead of F4x2 and have a chance for it to fall off?

From what I've seen, it tracks the players that use TP. If they have bad TP management then they'll underperform. I could have ended it at 3 minutes but I'd rather set my conditions to everybody since BLM can go indefinitely. As far as I know, only Ninjas have TP issues. They have the lowest TP regen cooldowns and ironically have Goad they can't use on themself.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

From what I've seen, it tracks the players that use TP. If they have bad TP management then they'll underperform. I could have ended it at 3 minutes but I'd rather set my conditions to everybody since BLM can go indefinitely. As far as I know, only Ninjas have TP issues. They have the lowest TP regen cooldowns and ironically have Goad they can't use on themself.

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Party Member : Goad Please

Ninja: Sure *goads*

*2:45 sec later*

Ninja: TP please

*bard/mch gives no tp*

*inches closer and closer to 0*

Ninja: *thinks to himself* "*sigh* fine i'll bottom out til invig comes back >.>"

As a new 60 BLM, I think I've pinpointed my greatest challenge being the fight against my ingrained habit of wanting to use procs ASAP following my next hard cast as a fireweaving tool. When I screw up my rotation, it's almost invariably because I allowed an active proc to throw off my timing when I would have done better by allowing it to fall off or waiting to use it.

The rotation itself is not really more difficult to execute than the old one was, but the handling of procs combined with the shift to monitoring and maintaining both Enochian and AF/UI is definitely a bit of a shift in play style.