That does not matter anymore when someone or some thing threatens the entire world. They could say sorry go away all they want just like some countries could say it here. The elves KNEW they couldn't defeat mordor on their own so Elrond told Gandalf, so they also sided with the humans which they hated and did not trust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
The same thing could happen here and I guarantee you that it will. It also happened in mists of panderia in Wow. As well as SWTOR and countless other games and movies and books where two factions/countries who did not particularly like each other HAD to band together for the same goal of destroying something that involved something greater then just their own faction/country but the entire world. This also happened IRL with two World Wars. Ishgard can say no as much as they want but in the end, it is not fair to allow the world to defend its self and we would eventually be let in to deal with this life threatening situation by joining the Ishard people anyway. There is NO REASON why this can not happened. Lore and the story can be changed to fix this in more then just this way.
You are picking at straws here to try and justify the grueling and daunting MSQ bullcrap that should not be forced upon us players who do not care for it at all. My reasons for playing are not for the story and I should be able to level and play without such a huge timesink ON TOP of leveling a character to 50.
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06-26-2015, 06:39 AMMadjames
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06-26-2015, 06:40 AMNightdreamer
Ishgard would open it's doors to all adventurers when all hope is lost and they need the help. There's your starting quest for the expansion.
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06-26-2015, 06:47 AMVoltyblast
As much as I might be thinking in the worst possible ways about this, I think this statement explains it all
There you have it: that's the real reason behind the gated content in my opinion, as new players won't be able to get to the expansion content in time within the free month and making them pay for another month or two if it's taking too much time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy
I mean, I still hardly believe that it's for lore reasons that the expansion is gated: not even all JRPGs are that gated in terms of content (well, at least those who allow free exploration), but I think this one pretty much explains why the gating. I might be wrong on this and this might be the most pessimistic way of thinking at things, but who would gain for doing all this?
Definitely not the new player if you can catch my drift. -
06-26-2015, 06:49 AMReinhaA game company can make the game however they like and you as a customer have every right take it or leave it. No one is forcing you to pay for this particular MMO if the Final Fantasy story doesn't appeal to you. You said it yourself with your book example. The only time I will suggest a player that they leave an MMO is when they are unhappy and with some aspect that has always been there. MSQ has gated things since level 1, so this is one of those times. If it's too different from other MMOs then go play other MMOs that you think did it right. If you "like every other aspect of this game EXCEPT the minor small scale MSQ" then just get the minor small scale thing over with and enjoy the rest of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
There is no formal rules about how to make an MMO and it's super arrogant of you to say that SE did it wrong just because they didn't cater to your wishes. Their playerbase is growing and that can't be said for many MMOs on the market. Thinking in the way of "it should be either a single player game or a mainstream MMO and not something in between" is very black and white. -
06-26-2015, 06:58 AMFelisAs Nael dropped Dalamud over Eorzea the Ishgardians still said "Not our problem. We are busy enough with dragons. Don't disturb us"Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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06-26-2015, 07:00 AModintiusSo one person who holds your views = everyone in the world who plays this game, seriously I have two friends who started and told them this and their cool with it so does that invalidate your argument or perhaps your being a bit over hyperbole on this subject not going to change anytime soon expansion already released? Also they are holding off on purchasing the expansion to see if they like the game or not first 3 new jobs isn't going to change there minds if it doesn't interest them after a few weeks but go figure people with different mindsets on gaming strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
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06-26-2015, 07:01 AMKisaiTenshiThose new jobs starting quests are all inside Ishgard, even if it were possible to start a new character with those jobs, the design mechanic around it is "automatically level 30", so they would in fact need their own level 1-30 storyline as if they had started ARR as that class... which for storyline reasons doesn't work. The AST's first quest is in the East Shroud, the DRK's first quest is all over Ishgard. Both of these, the first quest gives you a new Job stone. That is why they start at level 30. You only need ONE class... ANY class leveled to 50 to get these jobs. The only reason it's 50 is because that's what unlocks Ishgard. Otherwise switching the job itself, you can take DRK without having any Tank classes at level 30.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy
And if you got to level 50 long before completing the MSQ, then you spent way too much time grinding for no reason.
The Astral Era quests which are all level 50, still have ilevel progression attached to them, So just buying whatever the current tomes gear is gets you there with no effort. -
06-26-2015, 07:04 AMLuvbunnyWhy are you playing this game then? It is a huge timesink regardless. Wether doing MSQ to level up your character, which is a huge timesink, especially if you are planning to do alts. Or doing endgame dungeons grind, which is in itself is also a huge timesink. This is NOT a game to be finished in 4 days so you can be done with it. It is one to be savored, played leisurely, and just take a deep breath, explore, get lost in the world and lore, and obviously becoming a slave to these dumb NPCs who cannot save themselves from anything and everything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjames
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06-26-2015, 07:06 AMCalypsx
The DRK quests in general wouldn't make any sense unless you played through the story. There is a lot of dialogue that references what your character has done from 2.0-2.5.
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06-26-2015, 07:14 AMVoltyblastQuote:
Originally Posted by odintius
Just to make sure of one thing here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
So no I'm saying that as 100% fact: I'm saying that as 100% opinion and opinions, as far as I recall, are subjective.
Which means that I think that's the closest thing to a reason "why" to lock the expansion In my opinion, and not just because someone said it for me: SE is a company and needs to make money and I highly doubt that they really care about the lore and story as much as they say.
Still, if I'm wrong everyone is winning, and my opinion remains just an opinion that, overall, didn't hurt anyone. -
06-26-2015, 07:25 AMKisaiTenshiI'll disagree. While every MMO may go about it differently, there are a few fundamental rules that need to be adhered to or you either bomb the launch or your customer base churn is too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
1. A MMO is a Multiplayer game, all activities in the game must therefor be "better" in multiplayer than the single-player-in-a-multiplayer-world experience. If people only come to play the single player part and then leave, you've failed.
2. A MMO-RPG, must allow the player to create and name their own character within the programming limits of the game. In otherwords you can't have a MMORPG where everyone has to play Fluffy, and the world is populated with only other Fluffy's.
3. A MMO-RPG must have a clear path on why they are in the world. You can't just drop someone into the world, go "here's a spoon, have fun" and not give them an objective. What's the ultimate goal, reach level 50? Kill the bigbad? Craft a nice house?
Final Fantasy XIV hits most of the right notes when compared to other RPG's. I don't expect it to be perfect (everyone is going into trendy minecraft-clones now) but It just wouldn't be a Final Fantasy game if there wasn't deep lore and story behind every character. This is not a "WoW-clone" with a Final Fantasy skin on top. Most of the MMORPG's out there clone WoW's mechanics but offer very little originality, and all the freemium ones want you to spend hundreds of dollars a month on cash shop items to stay ahead. No thanks. The amount of money you might spend on FFXIV (10-15$/mo + 40$ per expansion) is equal to about 2-3 stand-alone games that give you 15-30 hours of play time each. So if you can get 90 hours of play out of FFXIV, you are FAR ahead of a single player game, and you can play with friends. -
06-26-2015, 07:33 AModintiusHonest answer it was the producer and developers who decided to go this route in game development and that purely there opinion on the matter and probably have data to back it up who knows, heck it could change after another expansion the game is still young in terms for a mmo things change. My opinion is this I think this subject is trifling in all this time moaning about something on the forum as a new player they could have been halfway finish with AAR by know the leveling system is in this game is a joke have friends <BONUS> you probably be in Istgard in no time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
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06-26-2015, 09:40 AMAtraylYou do realize what you're saying here is that part of the joy you get from the main story quest is the exclusion of a large group of players from the content that it gates, correct? I just wanted to make that clear. Because if the quest requirements are removed from, say, being able to fly, or being able to do the dungeons, that's the only thing that changes: the fact that other people are unable to do it and you are. You're literally taking pleasure in their misfortune.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
So, okay. There's one answer to how it negatively affects you, I guess: less sadism.
It's not a strawman. It's literally the reverse of the argument used against me.Quote:
Nice strawman, implying that anyone has admitted to playing just for the story and not also for the MMO gameplay. Of course it's an invalid argument because you made it up lol. People have, however, admitted to playing a story focused game only for the gameplay, so the question made by the person you responded to is perfectly valid and reasonable. I think it's rather ridiculous to ask for this game to be changed, when what you are looking for (no attunements, optional story, good pve) already exists in other games. A good story told via a game is what we have right here, so there's no need read books. "Why bother playing this game if you want a story? Go play a story focused gam... oh wait."
I'm actually not against attunements. I enjoyed The Burning Crusade's gateing system. The difference there is that it gated PvE group content behind PvE group content. To do the thing you wanted to do, you had to do other things you wanted to do. That makes sense. This is gating group content behind solo story content. It's a completely different situation.
"Please don't take anything further I have to say on this topic into consideration because I am resorting to childish attacks."Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
Will do! -
06-26-2015, 09:48 AMVoltyblastI hope you're fully correct on that! I'm not saying that I'm 100% correct on the matter but still a company is a company and even with all the "data" you can get, their main goal is to make money and that's undeniable.Quote:
Originally Posted by odintius
Still if they are saying the truth, that's more winning power to you: I definitely don't care whether they care or not about a story but rather if the story is good or not and for me, as in my personal and subjective opinion, the story is bad and not worth the time and if we don't agree with each others that's completely fine.
I don't agree however when someone tells me when I'm playing the wrong game when I clearly liked other aspects of it minus the story, and there are RPGs where the story is not really "great" (Pokemon and any of the latest Mario RPGs) and if I don't like one aspect of the game it doesn't simply mean the game is not for me. If the game wasn't for me I wouldn't have played it at all.
And also, not all of us are moaning and in need of doing the MSQ: I have done it long ago and this thread affects me in absolutely no way whatsoever and I could go by on my ways and completely forget about anything without bothering.
However I do know some people (and this thread has quite a few of them) who are struggling because of either boredom or because of the needless amount of unrelated story bits that could be simply removed; I still think that if they removed the dungeon (or making them soloable) would solve all the problems but I digress. -
06-26-2015, 09:53 AMMadjames
I have the MSQ complete, it took me a total of 20 HOURS starting from the quest Fireworks and Fish do not mix. That is how long it takes. That to me is utterly stupid and is bad for new players and I am not even one of them, I am past it.
I also think the new jobs should have been given to players and not again, gated for no reason by the expac.
To LUVBUNNY:
I have already expressed to you as to why I am playing this game. Every aspect of this game is awesome except the MSQ crap, sorry but it sucks compared to other FF games plain and simple and should be optional for those who want to fate grind to level or do missions or something. Gating the expansion should have been a hard level cap, not a hard level cap + 40 HOURS of reading a book/watching a movie and doing unrelated crappy quests for people.
I am leveling my miner by doing nothing but mining. I am not doing any leveqests, I am doing nothing to progress my miner besides the miner quests that are one every 5 levels. Nothing but mining, why? Because its fun and its relaxing. If SE said I had to do some drawn out MSQ crap to level that too, I would quit. I will not be punished nor will I accept another play-style to dictate how I want to play in an mmorpg that I am paying monthly for. Luckly, SE saw the light and give us the choice to level how we want on our gatherers, now all that is needed is that freedom of choice on our combat toons and crafters and we are good to go. -
06-26-2015, 10:06 AMTreaniebeanie
As a new player to the game I do have to say that the story is frustratingly long, and very tedious. It's really ridiculous to travel halfway across a country to activate a cutscene just to have to run back to where you were initially to finish the quest. If there was someway to fast travel(aside from teleport which only allows you to travel to the crystals) that brings you back to the initial point at least would be lovely. Honestly it feels like half my playtime is just from me running back and forth trying to finish story quests!!!!
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06-26-2015, 10:34 AMLuvbunnyNewsflash!!! Thats Heavensward for you!!! If you hate MSQ 2.0-2.55, Heavenward is just the same thing, bigger, longer, further, more fetching, with a big dash of hide and seek, running back and forth, again and again, and again, and again. The sheer frustration will amplified with aether flow quest, which can take hours to complete doing nothing but running around the map, and getting frustrated cuz you cannot reach the area, unless you really explore... It is absolutely atrocious way forcing players to explore and do all the tedious quests after quests after quests. You cannot even fly until you find all aether flows, on every single zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treaniebeanie
So yeah half your playtime would be doing quests, since aether quests are buried under other chain quests that you must complete before they show up... It makes MSQ 2.0-2.55 pale in comparison on how fast and easy it is to complete. -
06-26-2015, 11:00 AMTuathaaActually the MSQ in HW is no where near as tedious as you describe and it actually flows rather well compared to 2.0-2.55. All the optional quests are the tedious ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
Now if all the optional ones were part of the MSQ then you would have a fair comparison. -
06-26-2015, 11:25 AMVeji
I guess i just don't get it. I play FFXIV for the story and everything else. I've yet to see the HW content, even though i bought the CE. I just killed Ramuh, last weekend. I don't have any issues with this. I like the story. I like feeling accomplished with my character. I know everything is "gratification NOW!", but c'mon, really?? Why do people keep seeing a decent story as a grind? Maybe this MMO just isn't for you or your friends. Thats really all i can wager at. I hope SE keeps to their guns on this and doesn't budge. I think going through all the ARR story content is important.
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06-26-2015, 09:20 PMReinhaIt's quite hilarious to see you make making a personal attack at me just because I gave you the answer to your question. Sorry to tell you but everyone won't always agree with you. The ironic part is where you call the other poster on their personal attack, and say it takes away their credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
The fact that I like being rewarded for my actions with more than just cosmetic things does not make me a sadist. I have no idea how you got to that conclusion. That's like saying raiders are sadists if they prefer that the BiS gear comes from raids. Or that people who enjoy the aether current system must do so because it makes other people unhappy. Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? I suppose I've never seen an ad hominem that doesn't sound ridiculous.
I'm happy you mentioned The Burning Crusade. I found a chart in wowwiki (link because image doesn't work):
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Instance_at...attunement.jpg
According to the chart, those attunements required both group and solo content. To me that sounds a lot like what we have in FFXIV, with the exception that here the solo stuff is also gated behind group content in turn. It's how the game is built from level 1 and up, which makes me believe this game is intended for people who like both kinds of activities. For the intended audience the experience is the same as you had in TBC: to you do the things you want to do, you do other things you want to do.
There's nothing wrong with not liking solo questing obviously, but complaining about it being a requirement in FFXIV is kind of like me choosing to play an MMO that mixes PvP and PvE in it's attunements, and complaining about how I'm "forced" to PvP. Realistically I am not forced to play anything I don't want to play and if I willingly chose to play such a PvP/PvE hybrid for it's other good qualities, I would just grit my teeth and get the PvP over with. That's exactly what I did in Mists of Pandaria with the legendary cape and violet proto-drake mount, because those weren't the first occasions in WoW's history when PvP was required for PvE (or vice versa). Neither is this the first time that questing is required for group content in FFXIV.
If the developers cater to one group of players, they will disappoint another group. That's been my point all along and it's what I tried to illustrate with my example on page 17. Disappointing you target audience would be a very stupid move for a game company and I that's why I doubt they will ever make the story completely optional. It deviates way too much from their original vision. -
06-26-2015, 09:48 PMDarkstormsYou like story that's cool so do I , but how would you enjoy being forced to do mountains of content you have no interest in just to be eligible to do the stuff you want to do. The way the game delivers the msq for a fresh 50 is poor and for someone who is interested in lore and the story a giant clump of quests many being tedious fetch quests does nothing more than degrade the narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veji
I love the game and want it to remain viable to do that their needs to be less barriers of entry to new players. -
06-26-2015, 09:55 PMRichardButteHey, no one kills Ramuh. He just willingly goes away after you hit him enough times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veji
Well, he's technically right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
Also, I would use modern WoW as an example of how gating should be handled: WoW's storyline is longer and more intricate than FFXIV's, to be sure. It spans back to "Warcraft" and even before then. Mind you, that's not to sat the story is any good, but we're not speaking subjectively because many people don't find FFXIV's storyline to be very good, either. (personally, I think ARR's storyline was so so but HW's is absolutely gripping me)
But the point is, for the sheer amount of story it has, WoW forces you to see very little of it, and it's a much better game for it. Note I said "game", because that's ultimately what an MMO IS.
Now, as I've said numerous times in this thread, no person has any right to tell any other how they should play the game. The storyline itself is not a test of skill of any kind. The raids and dungeons themselves are the challenges (and they're very well designed and executed, for the most part).
That said, I'm sure we're only seeing a small percentage of the number of people who have opted to not play FFXIV because they're forced to play through the entire story. Until I posted this thread, I figured that number was actually quite small, but after seeing all of the other folks who have had similar issues, I think this is a much bigger issue and one that SE needs to address.
How many subs have they outright LOST because of the MSQ? Thousands? Tens of thousands? ...Hundreds of thousands? I would never have suspected this to be the case, but the sheer number of people who have unsuccessfully attempted to recruit friends in this thread alone suggests that this might be a very big number.
And is it worth it? In the end, a paying customer is a paying customer (as long as they're not a goldseller, I mean). If a person wants to do nothing else but sit in Ishgard and craft stuff to sell (thus ignoring the story entirely), who are we to tell them they cannot? And who is SE to tell them, either?
The argument against it is self-defeating, actually, because if you insist that people should HAVE to see the story in order to progress, you're basically admitting that it's a "rite of passage" and is therefore some kind of ordeal.
So what would happen if FFXIV had a progression system where your level was the ONLY gate to accessing content? Upon hitting 50, you could walk right into Ishgard and pick up the three new classes, leaving all of the story quest undone if you so desired. Dungeons and trials would become available in your duty finder the moment you were high enough level for them.
And yes, the story quest would STILL be there, and it would still grant exp and money, rewarding those who opted to do it but not punishing those who didn't want to.
And who CARES if quests reference the story that a player hasn't done? These people aren't going to know what they allegedly did because they mashed esc the entire time anyhow.
So that leaves us with the following question: if FFXIV's story is entirely optional, what's the downside? Are players going to quit over it being optional? I doubt it. Once the crying stops, they'll realize that they're not actually losing out on anything as a result of the story being optional, and if they're smart, they'll realize that all of the extra revenue SE is bringing in as a result benefits them, too.
WoW still has lore nerds of its own, FYI, and they're no better or worse than FF lore nerds. There's absolutely no sense in gating content behind copious amounts of storyline. SE could easily use a different quest symbol for quests that you can take but haven't done the story for yet (and there could certainly be an option to turn off quests you weren't ready for, story-wise).
The end result would be that players who wanted to could enjoy the story and players who didn't want to could just play the game, and both sets would be paying SE a monthly fee, contributing to future development all the same. -
06-26-2015, 10:04 PMAtraylI did not personally attack you. I attacked the point you made. If you can't see the difference between the two, then I don't think this is worth my time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
To address the only real point you made, I am also against the notion that raiding is appealing because it's exclusive is similar to the MSQ gating other content. Raiding is appealing because it's challenging. Exclusivity is merely a byproduct of challenge, it's not the goal. There's a difference between building yourself up (achieving something) and tearing someone else down (being happy because they can't achieve it). I would be perfectly fine with and even prefer a game in which raiders did not have exclusive access to the best gear. -
06-26-2015, 10:07 PMKisaiTenshiQuote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
That's all you've been saying in this thread. -
06-26-2015, 10:29 PMKisaiTenshiThe answer is Zero. It is NOT the game for them. You don't sacrifice one part of your subscriber base just to appeal to a subscriber base you don't have. This is why all the WoW-clones are awful, because they are trying to offer a WoW experience in a game that doesn't have the WoW lore, and doesn't have the WoW subscription model.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
You don't win the market leader with a carbon copy of the last market leader. The sheer number of failed freemium WoW-clones tells me enough that you don't produce a game to appeal to WoW fans if you aren't WoW.
Make your own game, and people want to play your game, will play your game.
MMORPG's are not flavors of soda with fierce brand loyalty. There are plenty of people who are generally neutral on the brand, but have their preference for "Dr.Pepper" or "Root Beer" when handed dozens of choices. You can't come into the market with "Diet Cherry Chocolate Dr.Pepper" and expect everyone who drinks Cherry Coke or Dr.Pepper to like it and replace their favorite with it. Many people will try it once, find they don't like the taste, and that's the end of it. You can't reformulate something once someone gets a bad taste, because they will remember that bad taste. Likewise you can't reformulate the existing product (see Coke II) and not have the loyal fanbase go hostile. Which is what you're seeing in this thread at even the suggestion of nerfing the storyline.
And this is the thing about FFXIV, is that there is a free trial, if the free trial doesn't make you want to subscribe, you haven't lost anything. Square Enix hasn't lost anything either.
WoW has a boost to level 90 that basically lets you skip everything in the game to the most recent content. That IMO is an admission that playing the old content never mattered.
Customer churn (people who leave) is often calculated by Revenue per customer. Hence a Free-Trial player, unless they contact customer support costs them nothing. Solving RMT has a bigger effect than any perceived losses by free-trial players not converting. Players will more readily leave from the constant harassment by RMT first, before they will leave because the storyline seems too tedious. -
06-26-2015, 10:49 PMTuathaaSo what you are saying is if they make the story line optional or streamline it you and the others who are against the idea are going to cancel their subs.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
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06-26-2015, 11:15 PMLineageRazorThat's a good point: exactly what part of the subscriber base is being sacrificed in order to appeal to this theoretically non-existent other part of the subscriber base?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuathaa
Let's assume that SE makes the storyline optional. People can skip it, or save it for later, or whatever, and delve into whatever content they choose, whenever they choose to.
Who, exactly, are we losing as a result of this? People who like the story, still have the story. People who like the story, but have other priorities, can save the story for later. People who don't care about the story at all, have the choice to bypass it. I'm not seeing a lot of unhappy people here.
As near as I can tell, the ONLY people who could possibly be unhappy about a change like this are people who endured what they see as a horrendous ordeal, and are enraged by jealousy at the thought of others catching up to them without having to endure the same ordeal. If they've endured the ordeal, it doesn't sound like these people are exactly what you'd call lore-hungry storyline fans. I'll take the story-haters who don't make a big deal over it over story-haters who are spitefully jealous any day. -
06-26-2015, 11:16 PMAtraylThis is 100% false. You're only further proving yourself to be an inconsequential voice in this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
Do these forums have an ignore feature? -
06-26-2015, 11:17 PMRichardButteThis thread alone has already proven otherwise at least thirty times over.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
FFXIV's raids, trials and endgame are actually pretty damn good, by MMO standards. The people I've been trying to get to play FFXIV are the same people I've raided with in previous games. These are people who will stay subbed to a game for a LOOOONG time, so long as you keep challenging them with new raid content.
And Coil was a really solid, challenging raid, one I would've very much liked to play with these folks.
But the problem stems from the fact that no one has much time these days. In the precious time they have to set aside for entertainment, they don't want to spend it doing something they don't enjoy with only the potential for future enjoyment possibly somewhere on the horizon.
Really, there is content at the end of FFXIV that people would pay to play for months on end, but they're not willing to grind through the mountain of boredom that comes before it and I can't really blame them.
Folks need to accept the fact that XIV has content that can be appreciated by people who don't give a crap about the story.
Seriously, do you think hardcore world first guilds in WoW are doing it because they want to see Garrosh brought to justice for his crimes against Azeroth? :P
You win the internet. Seriously, this is absolutely spot-on...Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
If you enjoyed the story quest, you'd look at others skipping it as "Well, it's THEIR loss..." and not "NO!!! THEY SHOULD HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE I HAD TO DO IT!!!!!"
Funny how even subtle things like this betray so much about these people... -
06-26-2015, 11:52 PMThanMazusThis is absolutely the case. If you check any of the dozen or so threads on this, several people come outright and say that since they had to do it, so should everybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
A question though, to all of the people who cite Lore as the main reason to keep this gating in place: Are you against the skip cutscene option for the MSQ? People get to fly right through the plot without having any understanding, and then they're caught up to you that much faster. Those filthy casuals don't even appreciate that ol' what's her face suddenly disappeared from the story because of something. -
06-26-2015, 11:57 PM3Jane
For christ's sake let this sad arsed non issue die.
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06-26-2015, 11:58 PMThanMazusYou came into a thread titled "A serious discussion" to suggest having no discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Jane
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06-27-2015, 12:00 AMKisaiTenshiNah, all that has been proven in the thread is there are two people who hate stories and are playing the wrong game and want to turn FFXIV into a plotless WoW-clone. No Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
Here's the thing. If we even give SE the idea that we don't care for the story, we won't get any more of it. Why would a developer spend the boatloads of money needed to have a cohesive storyline, lore and such, only for it to be optional? That's like ordering a Pepperoni pizza just to eat the pepperoni's and garbage the rest. Sure a few people might do this because they don't care, but the majority of the playerbase is playing FFXIV because they want to be playing a Final Fantasy game. Not a WoW-clone and not a MOBA.
Would this game do any better if it was based on Disney (a la Kingdom Hearts)? Would hardcore raiders come into it demanding that they remove all the Disney bits just so they could fight the non-Disney parts?
Like this is the lunacy of the argument in this thread.
If you someone doesn't want to play Final Fantasy, there are other games more suited to them. Final Fantasy is the largest RPG franchise inside and outside Japan. The Final Fantasy Franchise is larger than the Warcraft one. But you need context for this argument, since Final Fantasy includes every version of the game going back to FFI. Warcraft includes only WoW as it's the only RPG.
Final Fantasy XIV has 4 million subscribers, WoW has 7.1 million subscribers. What should be noted is that every time there is an expansion pack for WoW, the number of players doubles for about 3 months and then returns to below where it started. If you look at Blizzard-Activision's Quarterly reports, you'll note that there are more people playing Hearthstone than there are WoW which is a freemium CCG.
https://www.superdataresearch.com/ma...ta/mmo-market/
And we're completely fooling ourselves if we think MMORPG's are the most popular MMO.Quote:
CHANGING CONSUMER PREFERENCES
The success of MOBA titles indicates a subtle but important shift in the way people like to play online. Offering the same fast paced action as first-person shooter games, MOBAs have quickly become one of the most popular game genres worldwide, growing their share of the overall MMO category from 16% to 24% in just the last year.
But the popularity of the free-to-play model among consumers does not mean that traditional ways of publishing are on a decline. In fact, whenever there’s a major release on console, either via traditional retail or digital channels, we observe a dip in free-to-play spending. Gamers, the data tells us, play on multiple platforms at once and regularly shift their focus between them, expressed in both time played and money spent. Innovative game mechanics and monetization strategies, it suggests, do not exist in a vacuum, but rather expand and add to the gaming ecosystem. How publishers differentiate themselves in such a volatile market has become a key strategic component.
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06-27-2015, 12:17 AMRichardButte1. There have been an astonishing number of posts in this thread by people who have outright been UNABLE to convince their friends to play this game (or continue playing it) because of the sheer amount of story content (I say astonishing because I had no idea this issue was so widespread). No idea where you're getting "two people" from...Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
2. Making the plot skippable does not remove it from the game. WoW's plot is almost entirely skippable and yet they still write novels about it.
3. FFXIV IS a WoW clone. I'm sorry, but it's true. Most of the major game design elements are taken right from WoW: the themepark design, the duty finder, the endgame currency, the mount and pet collection windows, etc. The only thing truly unique is the armory system (which came from FFXI) and the fact that crafting and gathering are their own classes.
So let's bring this question back again:
How does it hurt you personally if other people get to skip the story?
It's actually a trick question: other people are already skipping the story by mashing the ESC key through all of the cutscenes and, surprise surprise, the servers haven't spontaneously shut down yet. :P
Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Jane
I mean, I just ate, so no one else could possibly be hungry right now...
Look, it's clear SE wants us to recruit friends into the game, and god knows I've tried.
People say, "It takes a certain type to play this game!" and that's of course with ANY game...
But we're not talking about forcing FPS players to play MMOs, we're talking about getting MMO players to play MMOs, and FFXIV HAS THE CONTENT THAT WILL KEEP THESE PLAYERS INTERESTED!!!!
It also has enough gating to make players UNinterested, however, and that's something that can be rectified.
And if it is, more players will play the game, pay for subs, giving SE more money to develop more of the content that you like. How exactly does anyone lose in this situation? -
06-27-2015, 12:21 AMLineageRazorThe thing is, though, at no point has anyone implied that we don't care for the story. All that has been stated is that there are potential customers who don't care for the story, or who would like the option of pursuing it at their own pace rather than doing it all up front.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
The storyline for FFXIV is a big draw, and the bulk of its customers appreciate it. SE knows this. There's a substantial untapped customer base, though, for which the storyline is less important, and this playerbase CAN be tapped without sacrificing any of the quality we've come to expect.
Asking for choice is not the same as rejecting what we have. -
06-27-2015, 12:26 AMVoltyblast
What I start to find annoying is how's everyone's defense for the story is that "it's Final Fantasy" and that is has to have a story in order to be good... and I would agree on that if this game wasn't once shut down because of 1.0 failure due to its faulty gameplay and overall bad game design.
As far as my friends told me, 1.0 story was much better than 2.0, yet the game failed. This game is a success because the gameplay was at last up to date and was actually fun: the story was just there as a bonus but the game was what a lot of new players came to subscribe.
As many can see, the keyword here is "Gameplay" but I'm not totally ignoring the story: this thread has shown a lot of concern because of the mandatory feeling of the story and how they wished it would be more flexible. It's getting quite tiring to repeat the same thing here but I suppose criticism won't be accepted because, apparently, it's a Final Fantasy.
I'm no longer a Final Fantasy fan in a long while and that alone should show that this game could cater to other players who are not fans of the franchise, but if we get this much bashed for expressing opinions about the game and feel oppressed with retort such as "it's not the game for you", then I'm starting to realize that I should get on my own way, bring my subscription to WoW or SWTOR, and just play with my friend and sister who are there.
"Two people less" won't ruin the subscription rate am I correct?
PS: However I still have to thank the people in this thread for making their true opinion arise: until now I felt myself oppressed because I couldn't express my opinions about anything this game without being retort in the most bitter ways possible (and one of my in-game friend even got mocked in-game for pretty much the same discussion).
This is unrelated, but a big thanks from a simple player who just wanted to have fun with the game! -
06-27-2015, 12:30 AMSamburiOne fault of 1.0 was also a not so good optional main story (not the 7th umbral story)Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
This is funny and unbelieveable. Unless they mean the 7th umbral story (from Yoshida, that started 1 year after launch) and not the main story (from Tanaka). And even the 7th umbral story locked access to content behind the story (dungeons, primal fight and Nael van Darnus fight). And Yoshida's story was the reason why the subs increased during 2012.Quote:
As far as my friends told me, 1.0 story was much better than 2.0, yet the game failed.
Tanaka's story wasn't very thrilling. Only story missions that were good are the r15 story, the first meeting with Ifrit and first meeting with Gaius -
06-27-2015, 12:34 AModintius
Show me those number because honestly I only see a hand full at most that not a astonishing number that's pure hyperbole, your trying to justify your claim with just posts if you've notice most the up votes are against it and allot more just rebut other people moaning. Second it not about how it hurts us personally if other people skip the story it a personal preference on how we as JRPG gaming like the progress in a different way compare to say western games.
It would be like us going to WoW etc, and going on there forums and start saying astonishing number of post in this <thread> who have outright been UNABLE to convince their friends to play this game (or continue playing it) because of the sheer lack of story content. No idea where you're getting "two people" from. -
06-27-2015, 12:42 AMRichardButteExactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
I've never been a FF fan. I think moogles and chocobos and whatnot are neat and all, but it's FFXIV's great mechanics that ultimately win me over.
The armory system kicks so much ass, and the boss in HW are the best yet. I also love how you can join dungeons and scale down your level so that you can play with your friends without nerfing their exp.
There are a lot of very good design decisions in XIV. Gating all of the actual content behind hours of fetch quests wasn't one of them.
I'm astonished at the number of posts because I had no idea that this many other people were experiencing the same issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by odintius
If you want to argue that XIV will lose subs if the MSQ is made optional, I'm gonna need to see some proof or you're just arguing based on hyperbole. -
06-27-2015, 12:56 AMVoltyblastAh I didn't know that, thanks for correcting me: I never played 1.0 but only heard from friends. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samburi