Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

well RiP stance dancing. Doesn't work anymore as of todays hotfix patch.

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FULL TIME GB GUYS
https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUkWpgRjHk1t6/200_s.gif

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth

FULL TIME GB GUYS
https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUkWpgRjHk1t6/200_s.gif

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Ya its not gonna happen for me Still fights require a heavy amount of movement and having gb just eats that dps away.

Full time GB has given me a dps loss of anywhere from 20-30 compared to what I was doing in my video. Right now the damage bonus from gauss is way too low to ever justify keeping it on beyond the initial burst, especially in current content.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Full time GB has given me a dps loss of anywhere from 20-30 compared to what I was doing in my video. Right now the damage bonus from gauss is way too low to ever justify keeping it on beyond the initial burst, especially in current content.

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Agreed. Gauss might be able to do more damage on a dummy, but once movement is introduced you either need to be lucky with procs or spamming feint while you run. I really hope they fix the damage.

brds just got an official response from dev in the Japanese forums about their dps

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._bards_minuet/
for english version

MCH WHEN AND WHERE?

but seriously if they don't say anything in the next day or so I'm gonna go full blown switching to another class or just stop playing really I just wanted one class to 60 and start on gathering and crafting now I can't even do that right now cause i have to slowly level alts.

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Also a bit about waiting for player feedback from Alexander before committing any further changes

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Lol I laughed. Because current feedback is not enough? Players abandoning the class left and right and barring MCH and BRDs from parties is not enough feedback? Good laugh for the morning

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

brds just got an official response from dev in the Japanese forums about their dps

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._bards_minuet/
for english version

MCH WHEN AND WHERE?

but seriously if they don't say anything in the next day or so I'm gonna go full blown switching to another class or just stop playing really I just wanted one class to 60 and start on gathering and crafting now I can't even do that right now cause i have to slowly level alts.

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Calm down guys. I hope that MCH will receive the same attention as BRD. Basically, if MCH can't move as a BRD, so increase it's dmg.

If they make changes to BRD and don't do anything for MCH I will truly be upset. *sigh* Not looking forward to keeping GB on either but regardless I'm still turning it off during high movement lol.

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Originally Posted by IfritReborn

Lol I laughed. Because current feedback is not enough? Players abandoning the class left and right and barring MCH and BRDs from parties is not enough feedback? Good laugh for the morning

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He is saying thats all they are going to fix for now, and then going to see what players say about it during Alexander.

They have to.

Machinist holds the same raid slot as a Bard.

If one is /vastly/ superior to the other, the other just simply is not viable. AT ALL.

So in order to balance MCH/BRD, they need to do comparable damage (one CAN be better than the other slightly, ofc), with comparable raid utility. They currently have both - with the problem being that their abilities post 50 are kind of just.. not good enough to warrant taking away their assets. (believe it or not, safe, mobile damage IS utility in a raid setting.)

tl;dr buffing brd = mch buffs

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Originally Posted by Ephier

He is saying thats all they are going to fix for now, and then going to see what players say about it during Alexander.

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there is currently no reason to bring a mch to in a raid anymore over a brd and or another dps.
like they just made our dps worst and you think people are gonna allow mch in their groups knowing that?

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

there is currently no reason to bring a mch to in a raid anymore over a brd and or another dps.
like they just made our dps worst and you think people are gonna allow mch in their groups knowing that?

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If they do not buff them along with the BRDs yes I can see this statement being true.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

They have to.

Machinist holds the same raid slot as a Bard.

If one is /vastly/ superior to the other, the other just simply is not viable. AT ALL.

So in order to balance MCH/BRD, they need to do comparable damage (one CAN be better than the other slightly, ofc), with comparable raid utility. They currently have both - with the problem being that their abilities post 50 are kind of just.. not good enough to warrant taking away their assets. (believe it or not, safe, mobile damage IS utility in a raid setting.)

tl;dr buffing brd = mch buffs

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-Looks at SMN's after thunder nerf- Took them a looooooooooooong time to deal with that.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

-Looks at SMN's after thunder nerf- Took them a looooooooooooong time to deal with that.

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Sure, but summoners were actually DESTROYING every other DPS in the game by a significant margin, lol. that change put them in line with everyone else ( relatively ofc)

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Originally Posted by Odowla

Sure, but summoners were actually DESTROYING every other DPS in the game by a significant margin, lol. that change put them in line with everyone else ( relatively ofc)

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True. All we can do is pray. If it remains broken going to hope on the BRD bandwagon til they fix it I guess. Share the same gear anyway. '-'

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

there is currently no reason to bring a mch to in a raid anymore over a brd and or another dps.
like they just made our dps worst and you think people are gonna allow mch in their groups knowing that?

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its already that way a number of people are basically get kicked from bismarck ex including my self one time even thou a smn was doing far less dmg then me and they did not get kicked. luckily I found a better group half hour later that day clear it went into ravana ex same day clear it that night and have ton of ravan ex clears under my belt if i didn't have those under my belt I don't think any group would of accepted me into ravana.ew

Off topic but if any of you have played since the hotfix what are you doing about GB?

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Originally Posted by Kasmiya

Off topic but if any of you have played since the hotfix what are you doing about GB?

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same as bard, you can swap it on at pre-fight and during a phase skip for some burst, of course having to apply hot/lead shots without the auto attack causes more dps to be lost so...yea

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

same as bard, you can swap it on at pre-fight and during a phase skip for some burst, of course having to apply hot/lead shots without the auto attack causes more dps to be lost so...yea

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basically what I am gonna be going with. basically means blow your cds when their off cause wildfire during a fight isn't gonna be beefy anymore

Alright thank you :)

I know people saying that the video posted was cherry picked and lucky crits etc. However he did pull 930 or 990 i forget in with GB up 100%. So not all hope is lost, yes i agree movement but thats same as BLMs. We have ability to store up procs to to use them for movement.

honestly most bosses have a pattern, so we need to get down the pattern and then work around that (not easy, not saying we will be better then any other class but should be doable). I remember when I was healing, i'd memorize fights and then heal cast timers based on that. (different i know however similar)

Anyone have any parses to compare the rotations for "Always on Gauss Barrel" vs Gauss Barrel only on during the Wildfire boost rotation?

R.I.P. Rapid Fire + Gauss Barrel - To me you were a feature, not a bug.

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Originally Posted by Telepwnsauce

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The 990 was right after wildfire ended, which inflates the numbers a bit. He was also using blanks off cooldown, it's something to consider if you're full time GBing. Then there's potting and food buff.

As for the pattern thing, the same can be said for any other class. The difference is the payoff for working your ass off to get the optimal damage rotation.

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Originally Posted by arctic

Anyone have any parses to compare the rotations for "Always on Gauss Barrel" vs Gauss Barrel only on during the Wildfire boost rotation?

R.I.P. Rapid Fire + Gauss Barrel - To me you were a feature, not a bug.

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I did around 830-850 on average with gauss bursting and party buff. Full time gauss was around 800-810 on average.

The problem with full time GB is that you need to use round and ricochet off cooldown to barely break even for the auto attack loss...but at 20/60 seconds respectively, it doesn't align with wildfire. If you were just using it off burst, you'd only be using gauss/rico every 90 seconds with wildfire, but you also have auto attacks to make up inbetween.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I did around 830-850 on average with gauss bursting and party buff. Full time gauss was around 800-810 on average.

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Thanks! If you don't mind me asking what rotation are you following for your Gauss Bursting? I'm in search of a new one, I might be able to move Gauss to the start of my current one, but I'm always looking for something a little better.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I did around 830-850 on average with gauss bursting and party buff. Full time gauss was around 800-810 on average.

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Turret included?

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Originally Posted by arctic

Thanks! If you don't mind me asking what rotation are you following for your Gauss Bursting? I'm in search of a new one, I might be able to move Gauss to the start of my current one, but I'm always looking for something a little better.

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There's really nothing else for yo uto do after you burned everything in gauss burst. It's just keeping reload, blank, graze and quick reload off cooldown and using it whenever they come up. I also like to try to use my quick reloads for split shot rather than slug shot, and not waste ammo on clean shots unless its with reassemble.

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Turret included?

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Turret is included. It's merged with my numbers.

Out of a few tries, I was capable of peaking at 960 in 3.5 mins(Gauss on at beginning then off after wildfire) but I'd say I average around 900+ with changes so we're slightly under Bard as it stands.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

Out of a few tries, I was capable of peaking at 960 in 3.5 mins(Gauss on at beginning then off after wildfire) but I'd say I average around 900+ with changes so we're slightly under Bard as it stands.

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Do you only use Gauss for the opening, or do you put it back on when Hawk Eye/Wildifire/B4B are back up?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Do you only use Gauss for the opening, or do you put it back on when Hawk Eye/Wildifire/B4B are back up?

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Only for the opening. Putting it back on is a loss and I've tried going full GB but for the most part it seems like a loss unless you have good crit/proc RNG.

Also with the changes seeing as how we are going to be going to gauss barrel only soon might as well start having a look at the rotation. The opener from the OP remain almost the same but with a few minor tweaks. This is just how it works out in my head, no math was done for this, would anyone mind helping me tweak it up a bit

60 sec Pre-Pull
-Reload
30 sec Pre-Pull
-Quick Reload
4 sec Pre-Pull
-Rook Autoturret (if more Physical DPS than Magical DPS, if otherwise, Bishop Autoturret)
2 sec Pre-Pull
(no quelling here cause feint)*
1 sec Pre-Pull
-quick reload*
-Rapid fire*
-Raging Strikes
Pull

-Dexterity Potion
-Hawk's Eye
Hot Shot
-Blood for Blood
-Hypercharge
Lead Shot
-Wildfire
Split Shot
-Ricochet
-Gauss Round
Slug Shot
-Blank
-Reassemble
Clean Shot
-Head Graze
-Reload*
Split Shot

* denotes what changed. Mainly moved rapid fire to the prepull to make hot shot, lead shot and the first slug shot instant cast as to not have to deal with cast time for the beginning of the pull. This also allows you to double pop OGCDs without dipping to much into your GCD.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

-Dexterity Potion
-Hawk's Eye
Hot Shot
-Quick Reload
-Blood for Blood
-Hypercharge
Lead Shot

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You do realize quick reloading before leadshot is a waste of ammo right?

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

You do realize quick reloading before leadshot is a waste of ammo right?

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Whups the typo.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Whups the typo.

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I'm not sure about the OPs opening rotation but quick reload before hotshot or leadshot is ammo wasted on a noncombo skill. It should be used after both leadshot and hotshot in every rotation.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I'm not sure about the OPs opening rotation but quick reload before hotshot or leadshot is ammo wasted on a noncombo skill. It should be used after both leadshot and hotshot in every rotation.

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I know. I fixed it. '-' My apologies for not proof reading. In the current opener it is used to refresh the 5 ammo stacks you will start the fight with. You will have 5 more ammo to use after the opener and quick reload will be available shortly before you use up the 5 ammo you receive from the mid fight reload, but you won't be able to use it immediately because you need to refresh hot shot and lead shot. If that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

Only for the opening. Putting it back on is a loss and I've tried going full GB but for the most part it seems like a loss unless you have good crit/proc RNG.

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What's your average ilvl, and i assume you were using 180 weapon. I haven't been too motivated with tomestone gear so my ilvl average i still around 169

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Originally Posted by Ephier

I know. I fixed it. '-' My apologies for not proof reading. In the current opener it is used to refresh the 5 ammo stacks you will start the fight with. You will have 5 more ammo to use after the opener and quick reload will be available shortly before you use up the 5 ammo you receive from the mid fight reload, but you won't be able to use it immediately because you need to refresh hot shot and lead shot. If that makes sense.

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Oh I see what you mean

edit: I'll have to try that out and see how it affects my #s

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

What's your average ilvl, and i assume you were using 180 weapon. I haven't been too motivated with tomestone gear so my ilvl average i still around 169

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i176 w/ i190 wep

Really disappointed in the Rapid Fire + Gauss Barrel fix, but it was expected. I've updated the simulator to include this change as well as potions and crit % assuming the crit formula is still roughly 1.5x potency, and from comparing different openers with this cast time change, there is a new one that is theoretically the highest potency now that is in the guide.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

Only for the opening. Putting it back on is a loss and I've tried going full GB but for the most part it seems like a loss unless you have good crit/proc RNG.

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Interesting and sad at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Really disappointed in the Rapid Fire + Gauss Barrel fix, but it was expected. I've updated the simulator to include this change as well as potions and crit % assuming the crit formula is still roughly 1.5x potency, and from comparing different openers with this cast time change, there is a new one that is theoretically the highest potency now that is in the guide.

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Going over the opening rotation on the guide, is there a reason Gauss Barrel isn't used before the buffs? I'm probably wrong and there's a super math reason behind it, but it just seems like a waste of buff time putting up gauss right after you pop the buffs.